Master Boda
Sr Member
I agree with you about the OT.I think the problem with the ST is they are using current times we are living in and we don’t know how history will view these times.
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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Bryancd
- Start date
I agree with you about the OT.I think the problem with the ST is they are using current times we are living in and we don’t know how history will view these times.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Right off. The acting and dialogue in the PT. ATOC is my least favorite Star Wars film. "I don't like sand." Is the worst thing to ever happen in Star Wars. I cringe just thinking about it. But I still like George's overall story. I like what he was trying to tell.
Along with that, The Clone Wars movie, it feels, clunky to me, and the first two seasons can be "meh" for me. I don't know if I could put a finger on what exactly makes that way. Maybe it's a bit childish,(which isn't wrong). But the later seasons are gold and I love them. Some of the best Star Wars storytelling right there.
Much of(Legends) post ROTJ I dislike. Some of it I do like very much, but most is just meh. I love pretty much anything set before the films. Kotor and SWTOR, Bane trilogy.
So far I really have enjoyed the ST. For me, they've balanced giving me nostalgia, with new stuff. It's a nice mix. I really enjoyed TLJ almost meta look at the Star Wars galaxy. It's almost a commentary about war and the Jedi in Star Wars(many episodes of The Clone Wars do that as well) My biggest complaint had to be the lack of clarity. Between JJ's mystery box style, the want to have "exclusive" content for other the mediums, and the almost artsy, subtle approach by Rian. It leaves much open for interpretation.
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Joek3rr
Master Member
It's actually not. The ST is using the idea of what would the world been like had the Nazi's started over in Argentina.
Master Boda
Sr Member
Yeah it actually is what I said,they are using current politics.You think the “Nazi’s“ would have Finn in their army?Where do you get your information from besides the Kool-Aid man?
Joek3rr
Master Member
Um the Nazi's never poised a real threat in Argentina, so that isn't current at all. That's a 'what if'.
ghostryder
Legendary Member
ConvergencePro
Master Member
Interesting take. I've never once got that impression myself but maybe it's there's something you're onto with that. To me the ST and the First Order specifically have always come across more as to resemble the almost cartoonishy crazy Neo Nazi movement as they are portrayed today in our modern politics, and the hyper-fear that currently exists in the air today to an extent for that taking hold. The lack of any real end goals of the First Order for established a functioning governmental or rule of law of any real kind being a good parallel, and rather the FO just being driven largely only by "hate" for something, in this case the New Republic and the Resistance/Rebels. This is why they desperately needed a time gap between TFA and TLJ, because the opening crawl makes zero sense in the context of the timeline in that the FO somehow now "Reigns" without having yet established new order post destroying the New Republic, and especially since they've literally just lost their massive super-sun-gun base mere hours before which one would assume would be a significant blow to their efforts to take over the galaxy. There's been no time allowed for that power shift to happen naturally and it's jarring as hell as a result
I know you've said in past posts you view the FO's goals as being the resurrection of the Empire, but by and large we haven't seen anything indicative of it on screen outside of "Kill New Republic! Kill Resistance/Rebels! Falcon Bad". We saw the Empire in operation as a functioning government either through dialog in the conference room scene discussing the dissolving of the remnants of the Republic, or through direct influence troopers being stationed on Tatooine & the takeover of Cloud City in ESB, or the complete destruction of Alderan being a manifesto as it were to other planets of the price for resisting their government; and even through Palpatine directly meeting with what appear to be government officials of some kind in scenes during ROTJ. All the OT films had subtle elements of this throughout them, they may not be a lot, but the fact they're there adds realism to the world around the Empire. I don't think we've seen anything like that out of the First Order unfortunately
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I never thought of the Empire as Nazis. I always equated them more with Ancient Rome with the Emperor, governors, and senators. Then TFA came along and gave us a parody of Nazis in space with Hux's Hitleresque speech and the stormtroopers heil salute. Subtlety is lost on these people.
Mr Webber
Master Member
Yeah, when we call Ruin "Ruin" its wonderfully childish but when he calls out Manbabies, A holes and tells people to F off on his safety blanket called Twitter its sooooo mature. The very same man that loves to lecture about trolls on the internet while he deletes 30,000 tweets from his own account ( since has been revealed was done BEFORE the James Gunn issues ) because he and his slimy buddy used to troll people...wait for it....on the internet.
ConvergencePro
Master Member
There's a lot of parallels that can be seen between WWII Nazi's and the Galactic Empire. Especially if you look at contemporary films from that era dealing with WWII you won't actually see many films portraying the Nazi's as they are typically done today, more they are portrayed as simply an extremely orderly/authoritarian militaristic society. It's kinda weird to admit but many films up until probably 40-50 years after WWII sort of treated the Nazi's with more respect than they ever would today. You don't see that much acknowledgment for the horrors of the Holocaust or the Nazi's persecution of minorities, as back then by and large it was view'd that the higher ups within the Nazi government had gotten what they deserved in losing the war and with the Nuremberg Trials and subsequent executions of leaders. Hell just look at how they are portrayed in Raiders of the Lost Ark. I'd even be willing to say that it might not have been until Schindler's List and similar Holocaust movies were released that you begin to see this dramatic shift for how Nazi's are portrayed in film.
But to get back on the more direct parallels one also simply has to look at costume design for the Empire. Things such as Vaders helmet closely resembling that of a German helmet, Imperial Officer uniforms being almost 1 for 1 to that of Nazi officer uniforms, and even the designs of the ships, vehicles and weapons. All visual parallels that our brain just automatically absorbs
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Oh the Nazi influence is definitely there. Not disagreeing. Stormtroopers obviously being a direct parallel and as you mentioned the uniforms of the Imperial officers. Although Vader's helmet I believe was inspired by a Samurai helmet, not a German infantry helmet. But that's a good observation about the portrayal of Nazis in film over the years.
The Galactic Empire took its inspiration from many totalitarian regimes throughout history. Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler, Imperial Japan. Nazis were certainly a major visual influence but to me, structurally they seemed to have more in common with Rome. One of the beauties of the OT was that they didn't hit you over the head with referencing whatever real world inspiration they had (stormtroopers being an exception although most of us who watched these movies as kids weren't aware of actual German stormtroopers). In the ST, the Nazi parallel is so on the nose that it comes off like a cartoonish parody with Hux shouting his speech with FO banners hanging behind him. It reminds me of the conversation about the bombers in TLJ being too literal of a reference to WWII when compared to the much more subtle use of WWII imagery in ANH.
ConvergencePro
Master Member
Welp I guess that pretty much confirms the leaks we've seen then... Wow.. just wow.. It's true... All of it...
Just fyi, All that stuff about a "Dyad" and such were included in the leaks... something never once mentioned or referenced in the trailers
Oh his face mask I can absolutely see being derived from a Samurai helmet for sure. But that dome on top screams German M35 helmet. As for the inspirations within the Galactic Empire, it's honestly splitting hairs between them all, but Hitler himself had a bizarre fascination with resurrecting a singular world power in the spirit of the Roman empire (just look at his visions planned for rebuilding Berlin post German victory). And yes I agree, the subtlety of it all is what makes it all work so well for the Empire in the OT. Disney feels like they're hitting you over the head with it and then getting upset and asking why you don't appreciate the giant lump they just gave you especially when they portray the Empire and FO as incompetent buffoons when they should be portrayed as a significant threat that needs to be respected as such. You always see the Rebels in the OT talk about the Empire with fear and respect throughout their resistance, where as you hardly see any of that with the relationship between Resistance and FO. Weirdly they 100% nailed this image of the Empire in Rogue One by making the Empire feel dangerous as hell, yet have since backpedal'd and reverted to "the Empire and FO are a bunch of incompetent clowns" ever since then in pretty much all other Disney StarWars media for whatever reason. It's totally bizarre to see
But the art of subtlety in film is something that is largely dead I fear, and sadly I feel even if it were employed well, it would go right over the heads of a substantial portion of the modern movie audience. For whatever reason it seems like a lot of movie goers these days just like to be able to turn their brain off, and many big franchise films cater to that.
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Joek3rr
Master Member
I think your going to be disappointed with the dyad. A dyad is a pairing. Like husband/wife, mother/daughter, brother/sister, yin/yang. Many fans have been saying that Rey and Ben are a pair, two halfs of a whole.
www.merriam-webster.com
Definition of DYAD
pair; specifically, sociology : two individuals (such as husband and wife) maintaining a sociologically significant relationship; a meiotic chromosome after separation of the two homologous members of a tetrad… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
patrickivan
Sr Member
I think your going to be disappointed with the dyad. A dyad is a pairing. Like husband/wife, mother/daughter, brother/sister, yin/yang. Many fans have been saying that Rey and Ben are a pair, two halfs of a whole.
Definition of DYAD
pair; specifically, sociology : two individuals (such as husband and wife) maintaining a sociologically significant relationship; a meiotic chromosome after separation of the two homologous members of a tetrad… See the full definition
Well if many fans have been saying it, it must certainly happen in the new movie
Ha!
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