Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

[Scarecrow Joe]

I agree with Joek3rr, there would be no way to make everyone happy, especially in the age when people feel important and smart for complaining and nitpicking online. The key is to minimize that proportion. If 80% of your fanbase is happy with the product and looks forward to the next chapter then you have a success. Sure 20% said crap things and maybe a large chunk of that 20% is gone forever. But when half of your fanbase is unhappy and a large chunk of that turns away...well that’s another thing.
And no, I don’t have the statistical data to back these numbers up, was just for a demonstration, but anyone questioning that there’s a big split now is delusional.

Agree. Not only that but the way some here behave like they are the all knowing masters of the Star Wars lore is ridiculous and sadly, shameful. They go as far as posting opinions like irrefutable facts.

 

[Joek3rr]

The part that was really powerful for me was Leia and Ren meeting. Such a missed opportunity inthe original film. This has so many aspects of TFA that were developed: Finn’s injury, Knights of Ren, Snoke, Maz Kanata has stuff to do, Leia and Ren, Vader’s mask...allthis developed in interesting new directions without subverting expectations and feeling stale or derivative.
Relatig back to Ep9 I wonder if JJ is still gonna go through some of his original concepts (if he had any) or had to rewrite from scratch after TLJ.

Mind you I haven't an opportunity listen to all of Thor's fanfic

But why say those things were a missed opportunity? How do we not know that they were planning a meeting between Leia and her son for 9? But Carrie's untimely passing has complicated that.

Finn’s injury. What's to say? He was injured, put in a bacta suit end of story.

Vader's mask. Ben got it somewhere, it got destroyed. Seems inconsequential in the larger scheme of things.

When you have a trilogy of films, the second film doesn't have to answer every single question set up by the the second one. Some of them are better answered in the third installment. Or at least thats how I see it.

I'm sure we'll get a lot of answers in 9

 

[Cephus]

Well she's not a Mary Sue. She being empowered by the Force to be Yin to Ben's Yang.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you understand what a Mary Sue is.

 

[Joek3rr]

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you understand what a Mary Sue is.

A Mary Sue is someone who is unexplainably good at everything they do. Is very popular with everyone, knows everything, has no flaws, and never fails.

Rey is not a Mary Sue. The Force working through her. The Force uses her flying experience and works through her to fly the Falcon (Luke and Anakin have already done something similar) Similarly the Force utilizes her skills with the staff. Allowing her to pick up a lightsaber and defeat Ben even though she has had no formal training. But later she barely holds her own against some guards that aren't even Force-sensitive. (please note that Luke has also had limited experience with a lightsaber, having received no formal Jedi training with the weapon)

And perfect she is not. She desperately searches for acceptance and ends up turning to Ben, one the bad guys of the story. She's also very impatient. And let's not forget how she took a little Dark Side trip.

 

[Scarecrow Joe]

So I guess Anakin must also be a Mary Sue. He was able to fly the pods with reflexes and abilities no other human being had. Qui-Gon explained very clearly why he was like that....I wonder why the experts in Star Wars lore, the one who know it all apparently missed that bit of info. I agree with Joek3rr but, know what? This are only movies NOT religions. Im not that hanged up on it, I happen to have a life besides movies, but if someone is acting like an expert, at least, show some basic knowledge of the story discussed....just an idea.

 

[sztriki]

Mind you I haven't an opportunity listen to all of Thor's fanfic

I PM-ed it to you and you said you listened to it...even commented on how Luke feels like a kindly old man...

But why say those things were a missed opportunity? How do we not know that they were planning a meeting between Leia and her son for 9? But Carrie's untimely passing has complicated that.

Maybe. That's a fair point. But I think it would have been a big thing to do before Kylo's turning point which is after Snoke's death when he takes up the mantle of Emperor/main villain/big baddie. Unless Leia was to be part of his redemption in which case we're back at the fall from grace-redemption story shoehorned into 3 movies.

Finn’s injury. What's to say? He was injured, put in a bacta suit end of story.

Vader's mask. Ben got it somewhere, it got destroyed. Seems inconsequential in the larger scheme of things.

Just because neither you nor Rian Johnson could think of anything interesting to do with these concepts doesn't mean noone else can.

When you have a trilogy of films, the second film doesn't have to answer every single question set up by the the second one. Some of them are better answered in the third installment. Or at least thats how I see it.

I'm sure we'll get a lot of answers in 9

That's very true and that's exactly what the middle film should have done, set up the big payoff and conclusion for the third film. And it didn't. If anything it tied pretty much all loose ends leaving very little to work with for Ep9. For most of the potentially interesting things it did exactly what you said "this was it, end of story, inconsequential".

 

[Joek3rr]

I PM-ed it to you and you said you listened to it...even commented on how Luke feels like a kindly old man...


Maybe. That's a fair point. But I think it would have been a big thing to do before Kylo's turning point which is after Snoke's death when he takes up the mantle of Emperor/main villain/big baddie. Unless Leia was to be part of his redemption in which case we're back at the fall from grace-redemption story shoehorned into 3 movies.


Just because neither you nor Rian Johnson could think of anything interesting to do with these concepts doesn't mean noone else can.


That's very true and that's exactly what the middle film should have done, set up the big payoff and conclusion for the third film. And it didn't. If anything it tied pretty much all loose ends leaving very little to work with for Ep9. For most of the potentially interesting things it did exactly what you said "this was it, end of story, inconsequential".

I watched the first part. But I never got around to getting the rest in. Netflix might have gotten in the way

 

[Nitz146]

Piggybacking on what you said about that moment, I felt that was a very pivotal part in the film. Something extremely special and the move they made in 8 handling that was a complete joke.

My perception of that moment (and this is ALL my opinion) was many many years had passed and Luke has, but lost hope himself. The moment he turned around to find Rey there holding his lightsaber was HUGE. She was the spark that would ignite this new hope in bringing the bad guys down and that he was going to take a moment to get his head out of the foggy abyss he had been in and those tears welting up in his eyes be the realization there's a chance and that he was going to take this seriously.

The Falcon was there. R2 and Chewie were there. Luke's SISTER sent Rey there. She had his lightasber that he hadn't seen since it was attached to his human hand on Bespin. These are some key pieces that cannot be ignored or taken lightly. Luke would have reacted differently, I just know he would have.

Time, tragedy and life can bring anyone down to a dark place and change a person, absolutely. These things, though. They are part of his history and hold sentiment. Further evidence can even be seen when he sees R2 for the first time in years. He is quick to say he won't go back, but the message from Leia's plea to Obi-wan spoke to him before he said, "That was a cheap move." Heck, look how much he lit up when he even SAW R2. He was far from gone.

That one singular moment was HUGE at the end of TFA. It was so poorly handled in that next moment thereafter. It should have been 2-3 years later with her well into training and skipping telling any story the second after TFA ended. That look in Luke's eyes at the end of the film encapsulated everything we needed to know at that time. Instead we got a Friday afternoon soap opera cliffhanger with a Monday episode continuation.

.... AND I just realized I ranted too long. Episode 9 needs to be special. I hope there is enough passage of time where the characters have grown and putting some mystery back into the mix while hopefully not meaninglessly killing off more old characters.

Totally agree with you. I think what you said about that is what JJ had in mind.

 

[clancampbell]

We REALLY need a teaser, poster, proper pics....SOMETHING to get us all excited again!

Rich

 

[Cephus]

So I guess Anakin must also be a Mary Sue. He was able to fly the pods with reflexes and abilities no other human being had. Qui-Gon explained very clearly why he was like that....I wonder why the experts in Star Wars lore, the one who know it all apparently missed that bit of info. I agree with Joek3rr but, know what? This are only movies NOT religions. Im not that hanged up on it, I happen to have a life besides movies, but if someone is acting like an expert, at least, show some basic knowledge of the story discussed....just an idea.

In a lot of ways Anakin was a Gary Stu, he couldn't fail, everything came easy to him and he didn't need training. It's why a lot of people detest Phantom Menace.

 

[sztriki]

Finn’s injury. What's to say? He was injured, put in a bacta suit end of story.

Vader's mask. Ben got it somewhere, it got destroyed. Seems inconsequential in the larger scheme of things.

I re-read and realized that I misunderstood your post regarding this, sorry. I thought you meant how these things could be paid off after TFA but you meant if these could be carried over to ep9. In which case you’re absolutely right and it talkies up with my gripe about tying these threads in the way they were done.

 

[Kovnyn]

I'd like to know why lightsabers suck in the ST. OT and PT, lightsabers severed hand, removed heads, utterly devastated anything it hit. Until Disney. Now, a wound that should have cut Finn in half, he recovers from in a matter of hours. A wound that should have taken Kylo's head off, leaves a little scratch. Lightsabers have become a less lethal weapon, unless they are wielded against elite warriors, of course. It is just bad. The most iconic weapon in movie history, which has been a major focal point in the ST, is a crappy weapon. Utter garbage.

 

[Joek3rr]

I'd like to know why lightsabers suck in the ST. OT and PT, lightsabers severed hand, removed heads, utterly devastated anything it hit. Until Disney. Now, a wound that should have cut Finn in half, he recovers from in a matter of hours. A wound that should have taken Kylo's head off, leaves a little scratch. Lightsabers have become a less lethal weapon, unless they are wielded against elite warriors, of course. It is just bad. The most iconic weapon in movie history, which has been a major focal point in the ST, is a crappy weapon. Utter garbage.

Plot armor!!!! Duh!

Ever watch Because Science? He did an episode on what would really happen if you got hit by lightsaber. He concluded that heat from the blade would cause all your water in your body to instantly turn to steam causing a very violent explosion. So Luke's entire arm would explode and part of his body.

Sorry that was random

 

[sztriki]

I'd like to know why lightsabers suck in the ST. OT and PT, lightsabers severed hand, removed heads, utterly devastated anything it hit. Until Disney. Now, a wound that should have cut Finn in half, he recovers from in a matter of hours. A wound that should have taken Kylo's head off, leaves a little scratch. Lightsabers have become a less lethal weapon, unless they are wielded against elite warriors, of course. It is just bad. The most iconic weapon in movie history, which has been a major focal point in the ST, is a crappy weapon. Utter garbage.

Mmm to be fair, if you watch the OT there are plenty of times in Empire and Jedi when the lightsaber hits something and just throws some sparks and that's it, it only really started to melt everything it touches in the PT. During the sail barge scene Luke practically pushes people off the skiff with the lightsaber instead of cutting them in half.

 

[Scarecrow Joe]

In a lot of ways Anakin was a Gary Stu, he couldn't fail, everything came easy to him and he didn't need training. It's why a lot of people detest Phantom Menace.

What? Sorry, Ive heard a lot of reasons as to why people hate the movie and that one you mentioned Ive never heard. It seems you are trying way to hard to sustain an argument which in the end is only YOUR opinion and a very flawed at that. I dont want to dwell into the psychosis some "fans" love to swim into so, so I will say just this: it seems you NEVER quite understood what the Force is, never. EVErything came easy on him? DId you even watched the movie? The little guy was separated from his Mom at a very early age!! Is that an EASY thing? No need for training? LOL! If someone needed more training in all Jedi lore was this guy. He was a natural, very powerful in the Force, BUT without discipline. He needed the harshest training but it was never given. Anakin is a tragic character and it seems to me that a lot of these fans have never understood it. You seem to behave like a master in Star Wars lore yet, it seems, you ignore basic details in the whole story. Perhaps is cool to jump on the bandwagon of hate to anything outside the OT but at least have a valid argument for it.

Im not interested in any more argument about the matter, its a silly unproductive thing and I have much more productive things to do. If you want to keep arguing do it alone. Im out of this.

 

[Scarecrow Joe]

Mmm to be fair, if you watch the OT there are plenty of times in Empire and Jedi when the lightsaber hits something and just throws some sparks and that's it, it only really started to melt everything it touches in the PT. During the sail barge scene Luke practically pushes people off the skiff with the lightsaber instead of cutting them in half.

Agree. People seem to conveniently ignore details here and there. Is it ignorance or they do it on purpose? I think is ignorance myself. People love to rationalize their hate and find the silliest, absurd thing to just do it. My theory: these "fans" will NEVER be satisfied. Never. They want the same thrill experienced with the originals but it will not happen. Even when the guy who created the story went and did more movies he was kicked around and criticized. No movie is ever perfect and that applies to the OT too. The emotional attachment to the story seems unhealthy to some, becoming an absurd obsession. Its those toxic fans who will end up killing the franchise. I hope they never do because is a very entertaining story to me and thats all....entertainment.

 

[Potroclo]

How about we open a dedicated thread called, say, "Post-2012 Star Wars, Lucasfilm, lore, production, general discussion, ranting and arguing", move this discussion there and keep this one about actual episode 9 stuff?

 

[AJTaliesen]

What? Sorry, Ive heard a lot of reasons as to why people hate the movie and that one you mentioned Ive never heard.

Then, frankly, you haven't been paying enough attention. Even weird Al made fun of "little Hotshot" and the pod races and unneeded part about him being the one to blow up the ship have been ripped to shreds literally thousands of times here and elsewhere.

And even then: not instantly loved by everyone (it's actually a central part of his character), does need training (there are three movies about it), and loses the pivotal fight of BOTH previous trilogies. So even if it is apples to apples, it's a small not yet ripe green apple compared to New York City.

 

[Joek3rr]

How about we open a dedicated thread called, say, "Post-2012 Star Wars, Lucasfilm, lore, production, general discussion, ranting and arguing", move this discussion there and keep this one about actual episode 9 stuff?

Maybe rename this one. Then start a new episode 9 one once a trailer drops?

 

[Potroclo]

Maybe rename this one. Then start a new episode 9 one once a trailer drops?

Or that, yes