joshvanrad
Master Member
Agreed. Kylo's character design is one of my favorites in all of SW.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Bryancd
- Start date
Agreed. Kylo's character design is one of my favorites in all of SW.
kristen jones
Master Member
totally! And personally I'm looking forward to seeing Kylo back in his helmet. It's not that i mind seeing his face occasionally, but he is so much more imposing in it, and also I feel he uses it to hide who he really is, which i find so interesting. I wasn't much of a fan of the helmet-less and caped TLJ costume... much prefer the TFA look.
joshvanrad
Master Member
Agree with what you're saying. One of my other favorite details was how ragged the TFA costume was. I hope we get more of that manic, unhinged Kylo in 9. The appearance certainly added to that.
He remains a highlight in the ST. IMO, he has the most depth of any character.
kristen jones
Master Member
Psab and Josh... agree with both of you 100% 
Jaitea
Master Member
Anthony Daniels wraps filming as C-3PO
'Star Wars: Episode IX' - Anthony Daniels Wraps Filming as C-3PO
Is that the end of Daniels as 3PO?
J
'Star Wars: Episode IX' - Anthony Daniels Wraps Filming as C-3PO
Is that the end of Daniels as 3PO?
J
Joek3rr
Master Member
He's the only actor to be in all 9 films. It's too bad Kenny Baker couldn't have been as well.
Fitting when you consider that C-3PO was the first piece of production art that was made.
DARTH ANIBAL
Sr Member
What if Snoke was just a creation of Kylo Ren's?
Star Wars 9 Theory: Snoke Was A Force Projection Created By Kylo Ren
Star Wars 9 Theory: Snoke Was A Force Projection Created By Kylo Ren
DARTH ANIBAL
Sr Member
Hey, it's Episode IX speculation/discussion. Pickin's are slim these days.
So Kylo Ren is Tyler Durden in a galaxy far, far away? So stupid. So often the wildest fan theories tend to be nowhere close to what they deliver on screen. In this case that is a good thing because that idea makes no sense at all.
I liked the idea of Kylo Ren being a wanna be Vader and while I know people think he was whiny I took it more as being conflicted and I think Adam Driver played it really well. I have my misgivings about the lack of arc for this trilogy but his character was the most interesting out of anyone in these new chapters. I always loved the idea that Vader had abandoned his name in an effort to submit to the dark side and having Kylo do the same and also don a black helmet in an effort to mimic his grandfather was a cool idea. Though there needed to be more context to it.
One of the lingering things that bothers me so much about these last two movies is something that is truly so fundamental to Kylo's character in that Vader was redeemed. They only briefly mention it and yet it was the entire crux of Return of the Jedi and everything hinged on this idea. It was central to Luke's arc and it was literally the climax of the film. Clearly Ben Solo idolized Vader but you would think that he would have been taught that Vader was not only redeemed, but was wrong for turning in the first place. The fact that Luke resisted the pull to the dark only reinforces this idea and honestly it's what saved Vader.
This is why I think it was necessary for the audience to know WHY Ben turned from the light in the first place. All that we know is that "Snoke got to him." That's not enough to go on.
How did Snoke get to him?
When did he get to him?
Why did he get to him?
There are so many holes in this story and if the entire trilogy is built on either Ben Solo's death or redemption then we need to know more that what we have been given. This is supposed to be the conclusion of the SKYWALKER saga. Ben isn't even a Skywalker, at least not in name. Darth Vader was far more evil than Kylo Ren ever was. By a long shot. Yet he was brought back to the light. I still have yet to see someone honestly answer my question.
What did Ben Solo do that made him so irredeemable as compared to Vader?
And, NO, Luke looking into Ben's mind while he was sleeping is NOT a satisfactory answer because we are not shown what Luke saw, only told in a throwaway line of dialog. I have yet to read or hear a single answer to this question and in my mind is what proves that what should be the entire arc of this trilogy has been missing from the beginning. If the film makers don't have answers to questions like these then their movies fall apart.
I hold J.J. Abrams accountable for that and Rian Johnson as well.
I liked the idea of Kylo Ren being a wanna be Vader and while I know people think he was whiny I took it more as being conflicted and I think Adam Driver played it really well. I have my misgivings about the lack of arc for this trilogy but his character was the most interesting out of anyone in these new chapters. I always loved the idea that Vader had abandoned his name in an effort to submit to the dark side and having Kylo do the same and also don a black helmet in an effort to mimic his grandfather was a cool idea. Though there needed to be more context to it.
One of the lingering things that bothers me so much about these last two movies is something that is truly so fundamental to Kylo's character in that Vader was redeemed. They only briefly mention it and yet it was the entire crux of Return of the Jedi and everything hinged on this idea. It was central to Luke's arc and it was literally the climax of the film. Clearly Ben Solo idolized Vader but you would think that he would have been taught that Vader was not only redeemed, but was wrong for turning in the first place. The fact that Luke resisted the pull to the dark only reinforces this idea and honestly it's what saved Vader.
This is why I think it was necessary for the audience to know WHY Ben turned from the light in the first place. All that we know is that "Snoke got to him." That's not enough to go on.
How did Snoke get to him?
When did he get to him?
Why did he get to him?
There are so many holes in this story and if the entire trilogy is built on either Ben Solo's death or redemption then we need to know more that what we have been given. This is supposed to be the conclusion of the SKYWALKER saga. Ben isn't even a Skywalker, at least not in name. Darth Vader was far more evil than Kylo Ren ever was. By a long shot. Yet he was brought back to the light. I still have yet to see someone honestly answer my question.
What did Ben Solo do that made him so irredeemable as compared to Vader?
And, NO, Luke looking into Ben's mind while he was sleeping is NOT a satisfactory answer because we are not shown what Luke saw, only told in a throwaway line of dialog. I have yet to read or hear a single answer to this question and in my mind is what proves that what should be the entire arc of this trilogy has been missing from the beginning. If the film makers don't have answers to questions like these then their movies fall apart.
I hold J.J. Abrams accountable for that and Rian Johnson as well.
Last edited:
Joek3rr
Master Member
I think Ben's fall might have to do something with the fact he was never told about his heritage. I think he learned that Vader from a political smear campaign that was launched against Leia. I imagine that would have distanced him from his mother, father, and uncle. Imagine learning on the news that your grandfather was the infamous Darth Vader.
None of that was in the film. I've argued this before. If crucial information is missing from your film then there are holes in the script.
Even so, why would Ben idolize a monster?
Not to mention that in the 30 years that have elapsed since ROTJ there wouldn't have been a time when Luke talked about his father? Or there wouldn't have been a time when Ben directly asked Luke or Leia about Anakin?
Again we are talking about general assumptions because the information is missing from the story.
Maybe they will go back and try to explain more in Episode 9, though it seems silly to work backwards rather than have that information for the audience in the beginning.
Even so, why would Ben idolize a monster?
Not to mention that in the 30 years that have elapsed since ROTJ there wouldn't have been a time when Luke talked about his father? Or there wouldn't have been a time when Ben directly asked Luke or Leia about Anakin?
Again we are talking about general assumptions because the information is missing from the story.
Maybe they will go back and try to explain more in Episode 9, though it seems silly to work backwards rather than have that information for the audience in the beginning.
I would think Luke telling his young trainees the story about Vader, how he rose, fell and was redeemed, would have been a very important part of their training. It is a perfect example on how the dark side can corrupt and what a mistake it is to embrace it.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Why would Ben ask about Anakin? Not like there are family photos (er holos) on the wall. And even then, I don't think anyone was real quick to start talking about the family. Imagine when the galaxy finds out that Rebellions/New Republics greats heros are the children of Vader. What's the reaction going to be? So they probably didn't want that information out there.
But yeah it's going to be hard to pass judgment on the whole story until episode 9 comes out. That whole time period between 6 and 7 is still vague. And and I feel like JJ did one to many mystery boxes.
I agree that it would make for a great lesson in Jedi training to warn his pupils about the dark side, especially if it was coming from personal experience.
Of course Luke would have talked about Anakin/ Vader! Pictures are one thing, but how about the melted remains of Vader's helmet? Even better! How else would Kylo Ren have tracked down Vader's remains on Endor? Luke was the only one shown at the funeral pyre. Not to mention that Ben was obsessed with Vader enough to not only find the helmet, but keep the remains in his private quarters and talk to it as if he could gain power from it. There's no way Luke wouldn't have told him about it.
Given that the story never really addresses what the galaxy at large knows about the Skywalker family I think it's kind of a moot point. So whether the galaxy knows that Luke or Leia are the offspring of Anakin Skywalker/ Darth Vader doesn't really have much bearing on the story since the focus is more on the interpersonal relationships between these characters.
Of course Luke would have talked about Anakin/ Vader! Pictures are one thing, but how about the melted remains of Vader's helmet? Even better! How else would Kylo Ren have tracked down Vader's remains on Endor? Luke was the only one shown at the funeral pyre. Not to mention that Ben was obsessed with Vader enough to not only find the helmet, but keep the remains in his private quarters and talk to it as if he could gain power from it. There's no way Luke wouldn't have told him about it.
Given that the story never really addresses what the galaxy at large knows about the Skywalker family I think it's kind of a moot point. So whether the galaxy knows that Luke or Leia are the offspring of Anakin Skywalker/ Darth Vader doesn't really have much bearing on the story since the focus is more on the interpersonal relationships between these characters.
cboath
Master Member
I never finished it, but the first book that was part of the Aftermath series (i think) alluded to the fact that people knew that Vader was Luke and Leia's father. I don't think it was general knowledge, but it wasn't a state secret either. At least that's what I recall. If so, it'd be dumb to try and hide it from your kid because he'll here or see it somewhere.
Joek3rr
Master Member
So on Wookieepedia it says Darth Vader was revealed as Luke and Leia's father and Ben's grandfather 6 years before TFA. In Star Wars Bloodline. Apparently this when Ben learns of it.
Makes me wonder. Could Snoke have gotten Ben into idolizing Vader before Ben knew who he was?
If Ben was manipulated into idolizing Vader and then have it revealed to him that he was the grandson, that could have had such a momentous impact as to lock him onto the dark path forever.
It would help to have a reliable timeline- I do not get a chance to read the novels (the first Aftermath book was so bad I never followed up on the others).
It would help to have a reliable timeline- I do not get a chance to read the novels (the first Aftermath book was so bad I never followed up on the others).
Similar threads
