Snikt
Sr Member
That already happened in the OT with Vader. How is it exciting? Vader had a way more tragic arc than Kylo did/does.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Bryancd
- Start date
Joek3rr
Master Member
It's exciting to see the Force bringing itself into a everlasting balance. With Anakin and Padme, Anakin was the Force sensitive so they weren't truly equals. With Han and Leia, the woman was the Force sensitive, so again not equals. But this time Ben and Rey are both Force sensitives so the are equals. Two halfs of a whole. Balance. Peace.
How else do you have a happy conclusion to this saga?
What would like to see happen?
Richard Baker
Sr Member
Oh lordy, don't let them have kids!
The universe needs a break from the Skywalker clan...
The universe needs a break from the Skywalker clan...
CT1138
Sr Member
I think there is a very big discussion that needs to be made in IX: what DO we do with Kylo's and Rey's relationship? Obviously Kylo wants Rey as a powerful apprentice, and Rey naively thinks she can pull a Luke Skywalker and bring Kylo back to the light. I don't think either of them are ever going to get what they want.
Kylo is a sociopath. I wouldn't call him a psychopath, as he still holds some shadow of empathy and remorse. He killed his father, but struggled with the decision, and found himself unable to kill his mother. The problem with Kylo is, like Han said, there's too much of his grandfather in him. If Luke embodied everything that was good about Anakin (his compassion, his bravery, and his loyalty), Ben Solo embodies everything bad about Anakin (his impatience, his quick temper, and his impulsiveness). There's really only three people who could have brought Kylo Ren back to the light. Han Solo, (who failed), Luke Skywalker (who gave up) and Leia. Carrie Fisher is unfortunately no longer with us, and therefore will be unable to do anything about her character's son (unless Rian Johnson filmed Leia having a duel with Kylo Ren and redeeming him in the end).
Rey is naive. She may not be Luke's blood, but she has his spirit. She's impulsive like a Skywalker, she's loyal like a Skywalker, and she's brave like a Skywalker. In TLJ, she has the same brave, foolish naivety as Luke did when he ran off to face Vader in ESB. I have no doubts that we'll see her return in IX as a more mature, and wiser woman. She's already been burned attempting to turn Kylo Ren back to the light, so I'll be surprised if she tries it again. Unless there's a twist reveal in IX (which very well COULD happen) Rey has no attachment either emotionally or familially to Ben Solo. And Ben Solo will, in all likelihood, have immersed himself deeper into the Dark Side. In TLJ, he did what all Dark Siders do: usurp their master and take their power. This is the nature of the Dark Side. IF Kylo can be redeemed, I doubt Rey will be the one to do it, nor should she want to (again, pending any kind of twist reveal in IX), I think it will be like a sacrifice or due to his own greed.
Where does this leave us? There's really no room for love between these two characters. Part of me thinks it would be somewhat poetic for the Dark and the Light to marry, even if it's on a metaphorical level. It would be Yin and Yang. However, another part of me thinks about this logically and my logical conclusion is that both sides dig their heels in, Rey scouring the Galaxy for information on the Force, and Kylo doing the same for power in the Dark Side. At the end, both seek something powerful that they both want to use win the war between the Resistance and the First Order. It would be some kind of powerful Force object, that would bestow knowledge to Rey or power to Kylo. Both forces (Resistance VS First Order; Rey VS Kylo Ren) engage in an epic battle of good vs evil, with Rey and Kylo at the center of the fight. If I want to get extra fan-fictiony here, I could throw in that the twist reveal creates a drama between Kylo and Rey (remember, Lucas says SW is a soap opera in space). Both somehow get the Force object, but it turns out not to be what Rey expected it to be, and Kylo Ren dies in his attempt to claim it, ending the Skywalker bloodline forever.
In the aftermath, the Resistance captures the FO's top commanders in a well played tactical operation, and force them to surrender and sign a peace treaty. Rey begins a new Jedi Order, similar to what we saw in Legends. This is where the trilogy ends.
Kylo is a sociopath. I wouldn't call him a psychopath, as he still holds some shadow of empathy and remorse. He killed his father, but struggled with the decision, and found himself unable to kill his mother. The problem with Kylo is, like Han said, there's too much of his grandfather in him. If Luke embodied everything that was good about Anakin (his compassion, his bravery, and his loyalty), Ben Solo embodies everything bad about Anakin (his impatience, his quick temper, and his impulsiveness). There's really only three people who could have brought Kylo Ren back to the light. Han Solo, (who failed), Luke Skywalker (who gave up) and Leia. Carrie Fisher is unfortunately no longer with us, and therefore will be unable to do anything about her character's son (unless Rian Johnson filmed Leia having a duel with Kylo Ren and redeeming him in the end).
Rey is naive. She may not be Luke's blood, but she has his spirit. She's impulsive like a Skywalker, she's loyal like a Skywalker, and she's brave like a Skywalker. In TLJ, she has the same brave, foolish naivety as Luke did when he ran off to face Vader in ESB. I have no doubts that we'll see her return in IX as a more mature, and wiser woman. She's already been burned attempting to turn Kylo Ren back to the light, so I'll be surprised if she tries it again. Unless there's a twist reveal in IX (which very well COULD happen) Rey has no attachment either emotionally or familially to Ben Solo. And Ben Solo will, in all likelihood, have immersed himself deeper into the Dark Side. In TLJ, he did what all Dark Siders do: usurp their master and take their power. This is the nature of the Dark Side. IF Kylo can be redeemed, I doubt Rey will be the one to do it, nor should she want to (again, pending any kind of twist reveal in IX), I think it will be like a sacrifice or due to his own greed.
Where does this leave us? There's really no room for love between these two characters. Part of me thinks it would be somewhat poetic for the Dark and the Light to marry, even if it's on a metaphorical level. It would be Yin and Yang. However, another part of me thinks about this logically and my logical conclusion is that both sides dig their heels in, Rey scouring the Galaxy for information on the Force, and Kylo doing the same for power in the Dark Side. At the end, both seek something powerful that they both want to use win the war between the Resistance and the First Order. It would be some kind of powerful Force object, that would bestow knowledge to Rey or power to Kylo. Both forces (Resistance VS First Order; Rey VS Kylo Ren) engage in an epic battle of good vs evil, with Rey and Kylo at the center of the fight. If I want to get extra fan-fictiony here, I could throw in that the twist reveal creates a drama between Kylo and Rey (remember, Lucas says SW is a soap opera in space). Both somehow get the Force object, but it turns out not to be what Rey expected it to be, and Kylo Ren dies in his attempt to claim it, ending the Skywalker bloodline forever.
In the aftermath, the Resistance captures the FO's top commanders in a well played tactical operation, and force them to surrender and sign a peace treaty. Rey begins a new Jedi Order, similar to what we saw in Legends. This is where the trilogy ends.
The Brahma Bull
Sr Member
Yep, I have enough of them, too. Glad that this twin brother of Luke disappeared in EP8. They should've given us Luke, not that hermit. Maybe Luke returns in ep IX.
Joek3rr
Master Member
I wasn't going to say anything......but I can't.
That was half the story in TLJ, Luke coming back, coming back to be himself. As a hero, as a legend.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Maybe this will be Rey's struggle in 9. Needing to be convinced to help and Ben, and not just leaving him in darkness. And shouldn't hurt that Ben has something for her.
The Brahma Bull
Sr Member
Didn't make sense in the first place, because what Luke became is contradicting everything about his character. That's one of the reasons there is little interest in IX, because VIII got everything wrong, besides all the other flaws.
Cappy
Active Member
Boy I sure would have liked to have seen the movie you did. That was my expectation, sadly it was subverted.
Maybe that's the real legacy of these movies. It's definitely a sentiment I never thought I see here at all, much less seeing the majority of RPF agree with.
Cephus
Master Member
Seriously, you can't redeem this trilogy without going back and deleting the first two movies from existence. Rey is a terrible Mary Sue. Kylo is a cheap, whiny knock-off of Vader. I can't stand any of the characters or what they've done with any of them. You can't salvage this disaster. You have to stop them from ever existing in the first place. Episode IX can't fix it. It's just not possible.
sztriki
Sr Member
I said that many times, but here it goes again. I give zero crap about fan fiction, totally uninterested, yet I just by chance stumbled upon Thor Skywalker's "The Lost Jedi" fanfic on Youtube. I highly recommend it, you have to get past the first part, it's a bit too much fan-service wink wink there, but it does pick up and it showcases that these characters and the overall storyline had so much potential in a creative mind's hands after TFA which was kinda lukewarm without subverting any expectations.
Joek3rr
Master Member
It's been 30 years since ROTJ. Nobody is the same exact person after 30 years time. Particularly after emotional trauma(like finding out your father is no. 2 bad guy in the universe and having him remove your hand, being tempted for a brief second to kill your nephew, having your nephew turn on you, having everything thing you've worked on for th last 20ish years getting destroyed in a single night) That's going to have an negative affect someone.
Secondly Luke's attitude is consistent with his ANH and ESB self. Very pessimistic and whiny.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Rey is not a Mary Sue, there's is legitimate story reasons why she's able to do what she does (if I had 25 cents even time I've had to say that I would never have to work again)
And yes Kylo WAS a knock off Vader. That was purposeful. Or have you forgotten that Snoke reprimanded him for "being a child in a mask"? And whiny he is, as was Anakin, and Luke, it runs in the family.
Joek3rr
Master Member
The Brahma Bull
Sr Member
I fundamentally disagree with everything you said about Lukes charakter.
Jaitea
Master Member
Joek3rr
Master Member
Things like this remind me that there is nothing that could have ever done to make the fans happy. They could have made the best movies ever in movie history, and there still be complaints.
I mean come on, the put Ben in dark clothes and mask, like that hasn't been done already..............Revan, Malgus, Nihilus, Momin
And the bad guys love starfighters with big solar wings.......Sith starfigters anyone?
And so they used x-wings some more...............XJ series x-wing?
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