Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

[Halliwax]

Thanks, Danny.

You know, I’m not even going to exaggerate. I had been dealing with some very very heavy life issues within my family when TLJ came out. I had been having to focus on those things for a while by that point and I was so looking forward to TLJ being the one shining light in what had become for some time a black murky mundane hell of just worrying and being afriad to even have hopes beyond the living moment. I really needed TLJ.

I knew of Rian Johnson but had never seen any of his films before. People I trusted said they thought he was good, with a fresh perspective, but more than that, typically delivered competent quality stuff, and he tended to always write his own stuff. So that gave me what I thought was more solid ground for hoping TLJ would be great. I had even seen trailers for the movie he did with Willis and Levett (sp?), and although I felt within the clip Levett looked absolutely nothing like Willis, I could sense some serious thought had gone into the film as far as understanding the mechanics required for a seirous time-travel type of film.
Then I heard and saw a couple episodes of Breaking Bad that he directed, and I felt confident in him. This film wasn’t going to absolutely suck, which was all I asked of TFA, and was all I really needed from TLJ.

When opening weekend came around I met my brother and my two nephews at the theater and we were all looking forward to this.

Now I know there is much to nitpick about the film if one wants to. In fact, at times, one must consciously not nitpick some things, but again, I wasn’t after a perfect movie or a perfect Star Wars movie; I just needed it to not completely sucks @ss.

- The very modern, very earthly joke about hold the line... was a very Jar Jar-Wayne’s World “exsqueeze me” moment to me. It seemed really out of place to me... do they have phones and Customer Service and sh*tty cell phone reception in Star Wars? BUT, I got over it because, after all, it is a new era of Star Wars.
- I get the feeling Poe is the only pilot the Resistance has and has ever had.
- Then the bombers... okay, well, there’s also no sound in space so I guess no biggie.
- Leia in space... okay, this one really didn’t bother me at all because I could see Luke probably taught her some minor Force **** over the years. I didn’t care about any of this **** really anyway. I wanted to finally see my boy.
- Then I finally get to see my boy...

The entire rest of the film that whole theater was dead silent.

Who was this Luke?

- Setting the horses free and not meeting the code-breaker that you have to meet, but it was worth it????

- Snoke the Great and Powerful Oz that bridged Rey and Kylo with ease but couldn’t see his own death coming????

- Holdon jumps to lightspeed through the dreadnaught... WHAT IN THE HOLY F IS HAPPENING IN HERE?????

- Luke’s wet noodle @ss finally shows up, but wait, no he didn’t really show up. DA FUQ???

- Then his @ss dies?

- And we are left with Kylo Ren as the end all be all bad guy not just for this trilogy but for the entire 9 episode saga???? This guy?? Him? The guy that ends up the butt of the joke every time he has a battle??????



When it was over, everyone in that whole theater walked out in shock in silence. I literally couldn’t comprehend what I had just seen. How someone was given reign over this Episode VIII that clearly knew so very little about how the Star Wars galaxy works... how could this be?? I was literally in a state of shock. I could not believe someone could get so very much so very wrong. All you had to do was make it not suck, Rian, and YOU **** THE F’ING BED!!!!!! YOU COMPLETELY F’D UP STAR WARS YOU PIECE OF ****!

And then once the obvious complaints came out, the response from both Kennedy and Johnson to any criticism. I could not believe that both of them weren’t fired on the spot!

But the worst thing about all of it. This was such a monumental disaster, that it didn’t just ruin my night out and Episode VIII, no, it was such a collosal campaign of idiocy and purposeful smearing, it somehow killed my love and desire for Star Wars. For a long time I had absolutely no interest in anything Star Wars at all.

I admit it, maybe I was into Star Wars more than is healthy? I don’t know, but they absolutely crushed my heart and then curb stomped it in front of me. And for what reason? What was gained by doing that to me and to so many others? Nothing. Nothing was gained. By anybody. I still don’t understand.



Luckily, I’ve been able to cone back here more often and see what everyone here is doing and working on and I have been able to compartmentalize things a bit and rekindle something with 1-6, while pretending that 7 and 8 are just the most expensive sh*tty fan films ever made. So thank you all for that.

It’s just really a huge mindF trying to come up with possible reasons as to why they did it like that, and what they honestly thought the response would be. If they got from the audience something other than what they 100% expected to get back from the audience, then these F’ers don’t understand a single thing about Star Wars. And yet they ended up in charge of it. It’s just a mindF, man. Just a mindF.

Andy, dude!! I had the same thing happen to me! 2017 was a total nightmare... I used TLJ to keep my mind off everything.

When I left the theater I was so disappointed I actually wept myself to sleep...

I use Star Wars to escape my pathetic life.. and what was delivered to us was completely pathetic... I’ll never hype another movie again...

I can totally relate and understand where your coming from man. Hope things are looking better for you now

 

[kalkamel]

Finally a new year's resolution I could probably keep!

 

[Egon Spengler]

Honestly people that boycotted Solo screwed the wrong movie. It was good. It was more like Star Wars than anything the new trilogy has given us. If anything just don't go see the last film of this trilogy.

 

[Cephus]

No, Solo wasn't good. It was a complete waste of time. It took me forever to see it and frankly, I'll never watch it again. I'll get around to seeing Episode IX sometime too, but it'll be months after it comes out in the theater. I just don't care.

 

[joshvanrad]

No, Solo wasn't good. It was a complete waste of time. It took me forever to see it and frankly, I'll never watch it again. I'll get around to seeing Episode IX sometime too, but it'll be months after it comes out in the theater. I just don't care.

Same. I'm glad I didn't spend any money on Solo, and certainly didn't miss anything by not seeing it in theaters.

 

[Psab keel]

I didn't boycott Solo. I was simply not compelled to see it. Which is probably worse than being angry enough to boycott it. At least if I was angry I would have felt something. After 8 I've been feeling mostly apathetic towards the series, with the exception of the originals.

 

[mattycsi]

I didn't boycott Solo. I was simply not compelled to see it. Which is probably worse than being angry enough to boycott it. At least if I was angry I would have felt something. After 8 I've been feeling mostly apathetic towards the series, with the exception of the originals.

Same here, no boycott. Just didnt care.

 

[Psab keel]

Plus, what did Solo really add to the series that we didn't already know from watching the other movies? I had rightly predicted that it was just going to be a checklist of all the information we already knew about the character. Sometimes less really is more.

This is about Calvin and Hobbes, but the basic principles apply to my argument.

On Bill Watterson’s Refusal To License Calvin and Hobbes

and one specifically about Star Wars:

Star Wars, George Lucas, and How Copyright Term Limits Can Affect The Death of The Author

Why J.K. Rowling Should Walk Away From Harry Potter Forever

 

[joshvanrad]

Ok, so I've dumped on the last two Disney Wars movies quite a bit lately (and I'll probably continue to do so), but for now I'm going to make a list of a few things I'd love to see in 9. I'm not saying these things would make for a particularly compelling story, or that they would salvage the trilogy for me, but I think they're interesting concepts.

- I would love to see the Knights Of Ren. I was really hoping we'd get to see them introduced in 8 as competent combatants against Jedi.
- I loved the character of Rey in 7. I thought she was an interesting protagonist and the mystery behind her was interesting. 8 took her powers into a territory that just wasn't interesting anymore. I want to see her struggle in 9. I want to see her up against a force you honestly believe could defeat her. I want a little peril in her arc.
- I want to see Luke back (ugh... unfortunately as a force ghost) to be the moral guidance for Rey. He needs to be redeemed and I feel like his presence during her struggle would improve both of their arcs a ton.
- I want to see believable conflict between Hux and Kylo. I want to see Hux as the competent leader he was initially written as. I really want to see those two jockeying for the leadership role.
- Unfortunately, at this point I don't think there is any happy ending for Leia with the departure of Carrie. I think the most you can do to leave Carrie's legacy unblemished is to have Leia pass away. I kept hoping it would happen in 8 as a motivator for Kylo's sort of redemption, but it never came. It could at the very least shake him from being the prototypical villain that he seems destined to be at this point.
- I want to see the force tamed down a bit more. The force powers have been pretty wild in these last 2 movies, so I'd like it to be a little more refined and lessened. The force is cool because of its exclusivity and the mastery it takes to wield it. I'd like to see things get back to that.
- I'd like to see Finn fulfill his arc. He was this close in 8.... make it happen.
- I'd like to see Poe become a leader. He seemed completely dedicated to the rebellion and he's already the leader of a squadron. Make him an effective example for the rebellion.
- Han's death needs to be reintroduced somehow and woven into Kylo's arc. Otherwise, Han was just a dawdling old idiot who died because he was stupid, and his death is completely meaningless.

I'd be curious to see what other people are hoping to see.

 

[CutThumb]

Strange that you should say that:

Star Wars: Episode IX - Carrie Fisher's brother "thrilled" by Leia footage

I'd like to think there is a way to redeem the franchise from the mess its been made into . As a huge fan of the OT I just hope to god JJ has had enough input from colleagues , friends and SW fans to take all our wishes into account and manages to pull the robot out of the hat ,so to speak (however bad it has become).I'd hate to see the opportunity wasted again.
I have hope, but not a lot of it.

 

[Cephus]

I didn't boycott Solo. I was simply not compelled to see it. Which is probably worse than being angry enough to boycott it. At least if I was angry I would have felt something. After 8 I've been feeling mostly apathetic towards the series, with the exception of the originals.

I didn't boycott it either, I just had no interest in seeing it. I haven't had much interest in seeing any of the Disney-era Star Wars movies. As far as I'm concerned, the franchise ended in 1983. Everything since has been bad fanfic.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Screw the trilogy format for this series and make 4. Will need 4 to clean this mess up proper. I wont be in a rush to see the next film.

This is something I lay on George, as I've said previously. He's just not a natural storyteller, and always needed one to turn his ideas into a good narrative. His original model, in '76/'77 was six films each for Obi-Wan and Luke, before he compressed them to three each. But for all the content he wanted to convey, it really should have been nine each. That would also have fit even better with his (musical) canon model -- i.e., "it's like a poem -- it rhymes". Epicycles. a trilogy within a trilogy, which is itself one act of an even larger trilogy.

There's a lot of good in the ST. And Solo. And the PT. And so on. It just all needed to have been unpacked and allowed to breathe. And information the audience needs put up on the screen -- not needing to be inferred or dug up from other sources.

 

[Solo4114]

Considering that 9 is supposed to be closing out the Skywalker Saga, what a downer this sequel trilogy really is.

Kylo Ren is beyond saving. Han is dead, murdered by his own son. Luke is dead. The Empire, sorry First Order , rules the galaxy and the Rebellion, sorry Resistance , is in shambles.

So everything Han, Luke and Leia fought for in the OT is completely undone and people wonder why we hate these new movies so much. They have to reset the entire series so they can retell it and do a lousy job of it at that.

THIS is the Star Wars legacy? This is the conclusion of the Skywalkers? That they have to all die before there will ever be peace in this galaxy?

Watch JJ try and have Kylo and Rey have a son and the son will redeem Kylo in the end.

What a crock of ****.

The thing is...that's history. Remember Watchmen? Remember how Ozymandius says "In the end, I was right" and Dr. Manhattan says "The end? Nothing ever ends, Adrian."

Once they opened the book to do new stories featuring the old characters, I pretty much knew that they'd be undoing the "happily ever after" ending of ROTJ. They had to. There's no other way to create drama to propel the story unless you find SOME way to undo the success of ROTJ. So, whether it happened before the point where we step in, or whether it happened right at the point where we step in or midway through Ep. VII, you know at the end of the day that whatever the OT heroes did is going to fall apart. That's the price you pay to bring back the old cast. There is simply no way to protect their victory AND have new stories that are about anything that matters.

Pick a point of peace in history. Then trace it a little farther forward, and I promise you, you'll be in a war. The victory won is never a total and permanent victory. There's always a new conflict that upends the old order. The War to End All Wars is fought from 1914 - 1918, causing generational devastation for most of Europe. 18 years later, Spain is riven by civil war, which serves as a "dress rehearsal" for the Blitzkrieg that is unleashed by Germany in 1939, never mind Chamberlain's proclamation of "Peace in our time." Following the atomic destruction of two cities and the leveling of several others, not to mention the greatest death toll ever known in human war, what happens? Do the victors of the war finally secure a permanent peace and prosperity? No. Two superpowers threaten each other and their allies with nuclear annihilation, and wage proxy wars against each other for decades until one of them falls. In the wake of that fall, do you finally see peace reign? No, you see yet more localized civil war, terrorism both locally and exported to other nations, and a rise in tensions between world powers.

Nothing ever ends. Victory is fleeting. The struggle is never over, and progress and prosperity are not assured.


You ask me, the only way to tell a story that would've satisfied enough Star Wars fans (as opposed to general audiences) would have been to fling the story several generations into the future of the Star Wars universe, to a time when you're talking about something like Luke's great, great grandchildren, and where you could preserve in amber the victory of the OT heroes and let them ride off into the sunset. But once you decide you need to show them in your new films? Congratulations. You just blew up all they achieved because you have to.

 

[Halliwax]

Guys please, let’s keep the solo debate in the solo thread

 

[Kovnyn]

I agree with Solo4114 in that the OT had to be undone to continue the story and include the OT heroes. But they did so in such a boring way. The FO destroyed the Hoznian system, home of the New Republic. And we're here like, so? It wasn't like Cosruscant was blown to bits. You know, the capital planet we've known about for years? This new seat of NR power held zero connection to the audience, so it's destruction felt like a way to force people to care, and we didn't. We hadn't witnessed the rise of the NR, after the fall of the Empire, so there was no emotional impact.

Picking up the story where they did left far too many gaps in the emotional connection with the viewer.

Undoing the success of the Rebellion is one thing, and yes, it was necessary. But the way in which they did it was an abject failure, in my opinion.

 

[Bigdaddy]

There were plenty of ways to continue the Skywalker saga (though completely unnecessary IMO) without making the events and triumphs of the OT meaningless. Without rehashing the same beats from the OT and still pass the torch to new characters. I never got the impression that ROTJ was a "happily ever after ending", just a happy ending.
The direction they took was the easiest way to "reboot" and still pull in the OT fans. It worked a bit for TFA but TLJ walked the little bit of story they had right off a cliff.

 

[russellsch]

TFA could have been a good "starting point". Was it perfect? No. No. No, for the love of God, no. Han Solos death, for example, I knew it was coming the instant Harrison Ford said he was going to be in it. But what a complete wasteful & meaningless death. His death completely throughout his entire character arch. He went from SHOOTING FIRST, killing Greedo, & not caring, to "Hey son. You know, your mother & I would like you to... ow! That stings! & I never saw it... comin." But, the movie left you wanting to know more. Like, who is Snoke? How did The First Order come to power? Who is Ray? Where is Luke? How in the Hell was Luke's ESB lightsaber found!?! & so on.
Aaaand then TLJ came, & I now no longer care, at all, what happens to any of the characters. It is, by far, the greatest example of a franchise killer that has ever been seen. & there's only one way to fix it. & that's in the opening crawl of Episode IX.

Star Wars
Episode.... VIII (Seriously, we mean it this time. We know you're expecting Episode IX, but come on. Let's just say, we're calling a mulligan. You'll have to wait a few more years to see the real Episode IX.)
Ray has found Luke. She is about to hand him the lightsaber he lost, with his hand, in the battle with Darth Vader, so many years ago.

 

[Psab keel]

I agree with you Solo4114. No conflict, no story. That's writing 101, and sadly the course of human history too.

My overall point was that if Lucas or Disney, or whoever, is making more stories outside of the originals, then what are they really adding to the series from an artistic standpoint? In fact from what both of them have done, these additions have detracted from those movies because they have only rehashed what had been done far better by the originals. I know some may not agree but I think the articles I linked earlier made some pretty solid points to contrary.

Looking at the series in chronological order I'd say Star Wars kind of comes across as a downer. The legacy of the Skywalkers and the fates of the people in their lives are overshadowed by failure, greed, evil and death. The tone of the thing has shifted entirely and not for the better. Star Wars used to be uplifting and fun. No longer.

 

[mugatu]

Sorry about my last post. I kind of went off the deep end there... as 2018 has come
To an end, and I’ve had plenty of time to consider what went wrong with TLJ, I do offer these few bits of concilliatory points:

1. I am NOW much less angered at Rian Johnson. He no doubt is the person that wrote all of those things I complained about in my last post, however, if I look at things honestly, he was sort of handed a difficult task of explaining why Luke was missing from all of E7. Not only was he tasked with doing that effectively, but JJ had already passing hinted at the reasons Luke left and went to Ach-to. Basically he was given a garbage hand in 5 card stud. There was no reasonable way for Rian to come out a winner on that Luke point.

2. The other issues I mentioned, other than Holdo crashing through the dreadnaught, I can get over. None of them necessarily killed any previous part of Star Wars. I was open for this not being the same Star Wars that I knew. I expected it to be different is ways I had anticipated and in ways that I could not anticipate. The Holdo thing though was just incredibly lazy writing with no attention paid to even 7 films worth of groundwork already laid on what can/does happen in the Star Wars film universe and what can’t/does not happen in the Star Wars film universe. It unsettles and spoils so much previous lore in the films, this to me is his greatest unpassable error of The Last Jedi. Unforgiveable and unthinkable.
Now, did it look absolutely amazing? OF COURSE!!! But it completely wrecked any sense as to why there have ever been any large scale soace battles in any Star Wars film before it... which is all of them.

3. I think the real problem with all of the post-purchase films has been management and planning. It is obviously more apparently an issue in some films more than in others, but it surely has impacted all of them in different ways. What I mean is this: the most paramount reason these movies got screwed up, and which could easily have been avoided, was Disney demanding and announcing unrealistic release date before any work had been done.
Even back when George was doing these films, LFL, ILM were in perpetual states of research and preproduction, all the while George was refining his story for each film. Once Star Wars debuted there were teams of people already working on every level of the next film. They were entrenched. Once the ink dried on Disney’s purchase, the first thought was “let’s get that 4 billion back ASAP. How much time, beginning to end, do we give these Marvel movies? Two years? Okay, two years until the next Star Wars movie. Book it!”
But they had no director, no cast, no script, not even a story... well they had an outline that KK basically took a huge dump on and then threw away immediately remarking “Thanks, but no thanks, George! By the way, can I have my knife back?”
Time pressed on, and no director wanted to be responsible for the first Star Wars movie. Sure every director that was talked to would absolutely LOVE to write/direct a new Star Wars movie... just not that one. That one was going to be a career maker or a career ended for someone. And yet stupid greedy Disney kept the release date. You all know the rest of the story.
And then basically the same thing happened when they should be securing the person to do E8 and again, no one would take it having to follow up the almost assured success of E7 with JJ aboard.

Disney thought they could crank out SW movies like they do Marvel movies. And you know what, you CAN crank them out that quickly with zero planning or pre-production work, but you are only going to suffer in quality. E7 made the grade because it relied on old faces and low expectations, again, that it only need to not completely suck. For most fans it was much better than that lowly set bar.

Anyways, when it crunch time and the Mouse wants his money, you basically make whatever deals you need to make with whoever is willing to play ball at the time.


But enough about 8. As far as 9, my outlook is not good for them to be able to accomplish all of the following (in grand fashion):

A. A fulfilling succinct stand alone film.
B. A fulfilling ending for the ST that makes the ST itself more enriching.
C. A fulfilling ending for a 9 film saga that also accomplishes A and B.
D. Bring back all the fans driven away by TLJ.
E. Not alienate the fans not driven away by TLJ.
F. Somehow repair the character of Luke.
G. Somehow have a villain worthy of being the key villain of the ST and the overall Saga.
H. Have any space battles where every small ship isn’t jumping to lightspeed through a larger enemy ship.
I. Have a conclusive and meaningful character/story arc for Rey.
J. Have anything the ST characters will be doing have the gravitas to impact that entire galaxy.
K. Explain the death of Leia in a reasonable and worthwhile manner with only current film footage.

I hope they can do it. Its likely an unattainable order, but I do hope they can do it. I hope they can get 5 or 6 out of this.

 

[Potroclo]

I feel a great disturbance in the Force... as if millions of expectations suddenly began to rise again... followed by yet another disappointment. I feel something terrible will happen...

No but really, those wishlists for IX are the easy part, the natural developpement of the plot given the circumstances, I don't doubt JJ will see to it. Plus he's got room for it, after all, plotwise, TLJ is like a big fart in the wind. I mean sure, Luke's dead (yet he'll come back as a force ghost so it's not like he's been wiped out like Han), but we're pretty much in the same place as at the end of TFA. NO rules, Resistance is hiding, Rey has the Force, Poe's the best pilot, Finn's a defector...ok. Add "Kylo took Snoke's place and Luke is now one with the Force" to IX's opening crawl and you can pretty much skip TLJ.
The devil will be in the details...