Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

[Egon Spengler]

Theres a lot I like about TLJ but theres more I think just didn't work than did. I loved how Snoke was taken out. LOVED IT. Loved the fight in the throne room too. Loved seeing the ship crashing into the other ship and yeah I liked seeing Leia use the force. I loved seeing Luke punk Kylo. I even didn't mind Luke teasing Rey when training her. It was a nice Yoda like ha ha moment. What I don't like is that at the end of the film it leaves you feeling empty. I mean geez, at the end of Empire you felt some hope, but at the end of this.. it's basically like what, 15 people on the Falcon and some kid with a broom and the force on that lame Casino planet? I even liked Rose. She was a sweet character but the whole Finn and Rose relationship felt forced. I'm looking forward to this trilogy ending not because of wanting to see the end but because I just want it to be done so maybe they can move on to something worth watching. I'd love to be wrong. I'd LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE the last film to explain and rap this trilogy up in a nice package and redeem the other films in it. I don't think that's going to happen.

I also want to add that Admiral Holdo is the perfect example of someone who IS NOT A LEADER. She's a perfect example of someone who doesn't lead. She is way too into her own position to think anyone lower than her has any value in their thoughts of the situations. Yeah, Poe did some dumb stuff, but he was PERFECTLY in the right to wonder why and to be suspicious of her non action in their desperate situation. Instead of giving the people fearing they are certain to meet their doom a sliver of hope, she leaves them all in the dark and looks down on, and not with understanding, towards those that are panicking and assuming she might be a traitor. She's not worth of her position and those that questioned her had every reason to do so. She was a pathetic person and far from anyone that should have been leading anyone. It's like not feeding your dog for days and being surprised and disappointed when it bites your hand when you feed it. People crap on Rose and Rey and Jar Jar, but geez, Holdo is the worst of them all.

 

[Psab keel]

In a lot of ways it is a eulogy. To be fair, Episode 8 had a LOT riding on it. After the divisiveness of the prequels a lot of fans felt burned. The TFA came out and was under Disney's banner and people were hopeful. George Lucas was passing it off to the fans to make the new chapters of the saga. Surely they understood what made it special and would handle it with care. Right?

The TFA script was being penned partly by Lawrence Kasdan. Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford were all returning. Things were looking up. When I saw Stormtroopers in the first teaser I said to myself, even after 30 years they STILL haven't wiped out the Empire? In the films timeline, the Republic had fallen and the Galactic Civil War raged all in the span of about 30 plus years. Now we are returning to the story 30 plus years after that and they are still fighting the same battle?

Over 60 years of essentially the same conflict? Sure the battle between the Light and the Dark is eternal in storytelling, but at some point this story HAS to end.

I liked TFA when I initially saw it. I didn't love it, but I was hopeful. It was derivative but I felt perhaps they will do some new, interesting things and I was on board but that would all depend on what came next. Return of the Jedi was a fitting end to the saga. Anything added to it was just a bonus and it felt like if they were going to continue the Skywalker saga, it better have something important to add to the series. What have any of the films outside of the OT added?

Nothing.

Just like the Prequels and Rogue One didn't really add anything to the existing trilogy of Star Wars, Empire and Jedi, the sequel trilogy is merely filler. All of the exposition that laid the groundwork for these additions to the original three was present in the originals themselves and they were really self contained. The new films lack exposition for us to have better context of our characters, which is partly why they are weaker characters. Could these additional films have been spectacular? Perhaps. The problem is that what made the original films a success in the first place is also what make the new films failures by comparison. Every single movie that has come out since Jedi has also relied entirely on what came before so that they could never stand on their own. Whether or not that's fair is not as relevant to the arguement as much as understanding the limited structure of the series.

I think at it's core Star Wars was such a seismic hit because it was so open to different interpretations. Anyone could read anything they wanted into the movies and it means something different for every viewer. Even George Lucas admits that the success of the films was largely in part to the "psychological underpinnings that have existed for thousands of years." To the point that he even changes his mind constantly about the real themes of the films.

When even the creator can't make up his mind about his own films, why would WE be so arrogant to think that we would have a definitive answer?

People say that Star Wars is so expansive and the possibilities for stories within it are endless. Think about that idea though. Like really objectively think about that for a few minutes. Is it really that limitless? Even all of the novels and comics and video games have ALL centered on the same things. There really is only so much you can do within that structure before you change Star Was into something else under the Sci-Fi banner.

So before anyone claims that I, or any other fan of the OT for that matter, is just some cynic who can't handle new ideas, honestly ask yourself if it IS possible to make something that would live up to those original three films, then why hasn't anyone else been able to do it in the last 40 years?

Rather than try and poke holes in the original trilogy to defend your stance on derivative sequels, prequels, and spin offs, the fact that the OT has a legacy that has stood the test of time is evidence that they stand on their own and any additions are truly unnecessary.

It's a complete story. Perhaps this talk of it being like a eulogy is just acknowledgement of that fact. It had a beginning, a middle, and an end and we are just now realizing it because we love it so much we just couldn't bear the idea that it's been over since 1983.

 

[Kovnyn]

I'm looking forward to IX now for a couple reasons.

First, with the glimmer of hope that the ST can be redeemed to at least TFA level of enjoyment. I did enjoy TFA until TLJ arrived and took a giant dump all over it. Hopefully IX will be able to wash the taste of VIII out of my mouth and allow me to go from VII to IX and just skip VIII altogether for future viewing. A sequel duology, as it were.

Second, I'm looking forward to IX with the morbid fascination of watching the outcome of a major disaster. A train wreck with a chemical spill, a tsunami and nuclear meltdown, how much worse can the situation get? Can the ST now go from bad to even worse? Will it be an historic event in its cataclysmic failure?

Sadly, the second reason is far more likely than the first. This will probably be the only Star Wars movie to date that I have not seen on opening night since ROTS.

 

[Psab keel]

8 was the lynch pin for me and for a LOT of fans. I initially really liked the prequels, even though there was a lot that didn't make sense to me. Something was off and I couldn't put my finger on it for years. After I learned more about story structure and studying films I finally understood why I felt that way and I realized how bad they truly are. As I said, I was on board for TFA, not entirely as I was hesitant, but I had hope.

Rogue One was meh, but 8 was either going to make it or break it and I went opening night. I honestly almost walked out of the theater. You can't have your characters openly mock the tropes of your series (unless it had been well established with that character) and then expect your audience to buy into those very same tropes at the end of your movie. It's not just bad writing, it's actually insulting the intelligence of your viewers by pulling a bait and switch. I'm not sure about you all, but I don't take kindly to being talked down to. Then if that wasn't bad enough we had an entire year of Lucasfilm and Rian Johnson outright insulting fans for not liking being served a turd on a platter.

I skipped Rogue One opening night. I skipped Solo entirely and have no intention of ever seeing it. I will skip 9. As I said I am out. I'll perhaps watch the trailers, maybe even read a synopsis if I ever get tempted, but I won't be there at the theater. There is no going back now. There is no way to undo the damage that has been done to the story and characters that meant so much to me all my life.

 

[niennumb1]

There is always hope. As much as TLJ left a sour taste in my mouth it can move forward.

Such as people, we are flawed and have moments we’re not proud of, but it’s how we learn, move forward from and let go of what was and make the best of the rest of the journey.

It’s definitely damaged beyond repair of the legacy characters’ possibility of ever being on screen together again, but what is needed is a compelling continuation from where things left off that make everything the alliance fought for worth the current efforts being made to destroy the rest of the First Order.

I do believe Abrams cares and I think he’s going to do the best he can.

If there was one great thing Lucas had it was absolute control of every aspect of the films and 20th Century Fox’s role was just to distribute it, which is the very reason he wanted to avoid big studios having control of his franchise. Now there’s top brass and execs making demands of what needs to be in the movies and is what is preventing some of these films from having heart with a good message and story telling in favor of these underlying agendas.

 

[Psab keel]

Oh it will go on. I just won't be there. I done hoping and it's over for me.

 

[niennumb1]

Oh it will go on. I just won't be there. I done hoping and it's over for me.

If you’re done then you may want to change that thumbnail

 

[Psab keel]

I will always love the OT, I'm just done with this new content they keep churning out.

 

[Egon Spengler]

Screw the trilogy format for this series and make 4. Will need 4 to clean this mess up proper. I wont be in a rush to see the next film.

 

[mugatu]

I also want to add that Admiral Holdo is the perfect example of someone who IS NOT A LEADER. She's a perfect example of someone who doesn't lead. She is way too into her own position to think anyone lower than her has any value in their thoughts of the situations. Yeah, Poe did some dumb stuff, but he was PERFECTLY in the right to wonder why and to be suspicious of her non action in their desperate situation. Instead of giving the people fearing they are certain to meet their doom a sliver of hope, she leaves them all in the dark and looks down on, and not with understanding, towards those that are panicking and assuming she might be a traitor. She's not worthy of her position and those that questioned her had every reason to do so. She was a pathetic person and far from anyone that should have been leading anyone. It's like not feeding your dog for days and being surprised and disappointed when it bites your hand when you feed it. People crap on Rose and Rey and Jar Jar, but geez, Holdo is the worst of them all.

I also want to add that KATHLEEN KENNEDY is the perfect example of someone who IS NOT A LEADER. She's a perfect example of someone who doesn't lead. She is way too into her own position to think anyone lower than her has any value in their thoughts of the situations. Yeah, HAMILL WAS UNDER CONTRACT, but he was PERFECTLY in the right to wonder why and to be suspicious of her non action in their desperate situation. Instead of giving the people fearing they are certain to meet their doom a sliver of hope, she leaves them all in the dark and looks down on, and not with understanding, towards those that are panicking and assuming she might be a traitor. She's not worthy of her position and those that questioned her had every reason to do so. She was a pathetic person and far from anyone that should have been leading anyone. It's like not feeding your dog for days and being surprised and disappointed when it bites your hand when you feed it. People crap on Rose and JJ and RIAN JOHNSON, but geez, KATHLEEN KENNEDY is the worst of them all.


Fixed that for ya

 

[Egon Spengler]

Fixed that for ya

LOL

 

[niennumb1]

Screw the trilogy format for this series and make 4. Will need 4 to clean this mess up proper. I wont be in a rush to see the next film.

I definitely agree a 4th film would very much help get things more properly re-railed, but I doubt that will happen.

 

[sztriki]

People say that Star Wars is so expansive and the possibilities for stories within it are endless. Think about that idea though. Like really objectively think about that for a few minutes. Is it really that limitless? Even all of the novels and comics and video games have ALL centered on the same things. There really is only so much you can do within that structure before you change Star Was into something else under the Sci-Fi banner.

100%. It's a simple story that is really really limited and if you try to veer offcourse it won't feel like Star Wars. As Rich Evans said, Star Wars is creatively bankrupt. Heck they had to rehash the whole Death Star thing for ROTJ already in 1983.
There was a huge buzz recently about a fan film series called "Vader: Shards of the Past". I watched the first episode and...oh my god. The production values are fine, lighting, costumes, CGI are all very pretty, but when it comes to the writing. How the hell is that these characters know only 12 sentences in total and they keep repeating that? How many times do we have to hear "about a great many things", ">>instert things' name here<< do not concern me", "what is thy bidding my master", "rise Lord Vader", etc...? That's all to Star Wars now, Empire, Rebels, Star Destroyers, TIE fighters, lightsabers, stock dialogue...this is probably the biggest mistake of TLJ for me. Go ahead with it, make Rey evil, make Ren turn good or make them work together or do ANYTHING that is newer, more interesting than "join me and we'll rule together!" "nope". Had there been an interesting turn there and the movie ended there it would've felt half as bad for me.

I'm looking forward to IX now for a couple reasons.

First, with the glimmer of hope that the ST can be redeemed to at least TFA level of enjoyment. I did enjoy TFA until TLJ arrived and took a giant dump all over it. Hopefully IX will be able to wash the taste of VIII out of my mouth and allow me to go from VII to IX and just skip VIII altogether for future viewing. A sequel duology, as it were.

Second, I'm looking forward to IX with the morbid fascination of watching the outcome of a major disaster. A train wreck with a chemical spill, a tsunami and nuclear meltdown, how much worse can the situation get? Can the ST now go from bad to even worse? Will it be an historic event in its cataclysmic failure?

Sadly, the second reason is far more likely than the first. This will probably be the only Star Wars movie to date that I have not seen on opening night since ROTS.

Oh god that is so spot on for me. That's one of the biggest reasons for my disdain for TLJ, I grew to like TFA and now I cannot really watch it without TLJ interfering. I can completely ignore the prequel trilogy and still enjoy the OT but these two are so intertwined...

 

[Halliwax]

I also want to add that KATHLEEN KENNEDY is the perfect example of someone who IS NOT A LEADER. She's a perfect example of someone who doesn't lead. She is way too into her own position to think anyone lower than her has any value in their thoughts of the situations. Yeah, HAMILL WAS UNDER CONTRACT, but he was PERFECTLY in the right to wonder why and to be suspicious of her non action in their desperate situation. Instead of giving the people fearing they are certain to meet their doom a sliver of hope, she leaves them all in the dark and looks down on, and not with understanding, towards those that are panicking and assuming she might be a traitor. She's not worthy of her position and those that questioned her had every reason to do so. She was a pathetic person and far from anyone that should have been leading anyone. It's like not feeding your dog for days and being surprised and disappointed when it bites your hand when you feed it. People crap on Rose and JJ and RIAN JOHNSON, but geez, KATHLEEN KENNEDY is the worst of them all.


Fixed that for ya

Missed you buddy!

 

[Psab keel]

100%. It's a simple story that is really really limited and if you try to veer offcourse it won't feel like Star Wars. As Rich Evans said, Star Wars is creatively bankrupt. Heck they had to rehash the whole Death Star thing for ROTJ already in 1983.
There was a huge buzz recently about a fan film series called "Vader: Shards of the Past". I watched the first episode and...oh my god. The production values are fine, lighting, costumes, CGI are all very pretty, but when it comes to the writing. How the hell is that these characters know only 12 sentences in total and they keep repeating that? How many times do we have to hear "about a great many things", ">>instert things' name here<< do not concern me", "what is thy bidding my master", "rise Lord Vader", etc...? That's all to Star Wars now, Empire, Rebels, Star Destroyers, TIE fighters, lightsabers, stock dialogue...this is probably the biggest mistake of TLJ for me. Go ahead with it, make Rey evil, make Ren turn good or make them work together or do ANYTHING that is newer, more interesting than "join me and we'll rule together!" "nope". Had there been an interesting turn there and the movie ended there it would've felt half as bad for me.

I saw that fan film too. While I admired the production value, it's still just a typical fan film. Honestly I said to my wife with the amount of money they spent on that and from what I heard they are planning on trying to raise $200,000 to fund the next episode, you could fund an entire low budget movie for that kind of dough. Seems like a missed opportunity to me. A coworker of mine made a feature length film for $1000.00. It played in festivals and got some decent buzz and for what he did with it, it was pretty damned good. I know some people loved that Vader film, but if I had those kinds of resources I would have made my own original film, not a Star Wars fan film. Just my 2 cents.

You raise a good point though about the second Death Star in Jedi being used as a plot device. I LOVE Return of the Jedi but even I can admit that from a writing perspective it is redundant. Even the novels fell into the trap of rehashing the same ideas of superweapons and the endless battle between the Empire and Rebellion, regardless of whatever banner they were under at that point in the story. Though I can say that looking back now I would have much preferred to have seen some of those novels be the basis of the Sequel trilogy over what we got. These new movies are just poor imitations of the far superior originals to the point where it's beginning to become parody (The Last Jedi).

The only thing that comes to mind that has the potential to do anything new with the franchise is The Mandalorean because it will not center on characters or events we have any previous knowledge or expectations about. For anyone holding out hope for Star Wars to be able to do something truly innovative as a story telling vehicle, this could be the beginning, though I am even hesitant to commit to that idea fully because after 40 years no one has been able to truly push the series into new territory without it disintegrating on some level.

 

[mugatu]

Missed you buddy!

Thanks, Danny.

You know, I’m not even going to exaggerate. I had been dealing with some very very heavy life issues within my family when TLJ came out. I had been having to focus on those things for a while by that point and I was so looking forward to TLJ being the one shining light in what had become for some time a black murky mundane hell of just worrying and being afriad to even have hopes beyond the living moment. I really needed TLJ.

I knew of Rian Johnson but had never seen any of his films before. People I trusted said they thought he was good, with a fresh perspective, but more than that, typically delivered competent quality stuff, and he tended to always write his own stuff. So that gave me what I thought was more solid ground for hoping TLJ would be great. I had even seen trailers for the movie he did with Willis and Levett (sp?), and although I felt within the clip Levett looked absolutely nothing like Willis, I could sense some serious thought had gone into the film as far as understanding the mechanics required for a seirous time-travel type of film.
Then I heard and saw a couple episodes of Breaking Bad that he directed, and I felt confident in him. This film wasn’t going to absolutely suck, which was all I asked of TFA, and was all I really needed from TLJ.

When opening weekend came around I met my brother and my two nephews at the theater and we were all looking forward to this.

Now I know there is much to nitpick about the film if one wants to. In fact, at times, one must consciously not nitpick some things, but again, I wasn’t after a perfect movie or a perfect Star Wars movie; I just needed it to not completely sucks @ss.

- The very modern, very earthly joke about hold the line... was a very Jar Jar-Wayne’s World “exsqueeze me” moment to me. It seemed really out of place to me... do they have phones and Customer Service and sh*tty cell phone reception in Star Wars? BUT, I got over it because, after all, it is a new era of Star Wars.
- I get the feeling Poe is the only pilot the Resistance has and has ever had.
- Then the bombers... okay, well, there’s also no sound in space so I guess no biggie.
- Leia in space... okay, this one really didn’t bother me at all because I could see Luke probably taught her some minor Force **** over the years. I didn’t care about any of this **** really anyway. I wanted to finally see my boy.
- Then I finally get to see my boy...

The entire rest of the film that whole theater was dead silent.

Who was this Luke?

- Setting the horses free and not meeting the code-breaker that you have to meet, but it was worth it????

- Snoke the Great and Powerful Oz that bridged Rey and Kylo with ease but couldn’t see his own death coming????

- Holdon jumps to lightspeed through the dreadnaught... WHAT IN THE HOLY F IS HAPPENING IN HERE?????

- Luke’s wet noodle @ss finally shows up, but wait, no he didn’t really show up. DA FUQ???

- Then his @ss dies?

- And we are left with Kylo Ren as the end all be all bad guy not just for this trilogy but for the entire 9 episode saga???? This guy?? Him? The guy that ends up the butt of the joke every time he has a battle??????



When it was over, everyone in that whole theater walked out in shock in silence. I literally couldn’t comprehend what I had just seen. How someone was given reign over this Episode VIII that clearly knew so very little about how the Star Wars galaxy works... how could this be?? I was literally in a state of shock. I could not believe someone could get so very much so very wrong. All you had to do was make it not suck, Rian, and YOU **** THE F’ING BED!!!!!! YOU COMPLETELY F’D UP STAR WARS YOU PIECE OF ****!

And then once the obvious complaints came out, the response from both Kennedy and Johnson to any criticism. I could not believe that both of them weren’t fired on the spot!

But the worst thing about all of it. This was such a monumental disaster, that it didn’t just ruin my night out and Episode VIII, no, it was such a collosal campaign of idiocy and purposeful smearing, it somehow killed my love and desire for Star Wars. For a long time I had absolutely no interest in anything Star Wars at all.

I admit it, maybe I was into Star Wars more than is healthy? I don’t know, but they absolutely crushed my heart and then curb stomped it in front of me. And for what reason? What was gained by doing that to me and to so many others? Nothing. Nothing was gained. By anybody. I still don’t understand.



Luckily, I’ve been able to cone back here more often and see what everyone here is doing and working on and I have been able to compartmentalize things a bit and rekindle something with 1-6, while pretending that 7 and 8 are just the most expensive sh*tty fan films ever made. So thank you all for that.

It’s just really a huge mindF trying to come up with possible reasons as to why they did it like that, and what they honestly thought the response would be. If they got from the audience something other than what they 100% expected to get back from the audience, then these F’ers don’t understand a single thing about Star Wars. And yet they ended up in charge of it. It’s just a mindF, man. Just a mindF.

 

[Egon Spengler]

I am still convinced that Snoke did see his death coming. As craptacular as a lot of this movie was, I still think Snoke wanted what went down to happen. The Emperor wanted Luke to kill him and turn fully to the dark side. I think Snoke wanted the same. No sarcasm.

 

[Psab keel]

Considering that 9 is supposed to be closing out the Skywalker Saga, what a downer this sequel trilogy really is.

Kylo Ren is beyond saving. Han is dead, murdered by his own son. Luke is dead. The Empire, sorry First Order , rules the galaxy and the Rebellion, sorry Resistance , is in shambles.

So everything Han, Luke and Leia fought for in the OT is completely undone and people wonder why we hate these new movies so much. They have to reset the entire series so they can retell it and do a lousy job of it at that.

THIS is the Star Wars legacy? This is the conclusion of the Skywalkers? That they have to all die before there will ever be peace in this galaxy?

Watch JJ try and have Kylo and Rey have a son and the son will redeem Kylo in the end.

What a crock of ****.

 

[Egon Spengler]

Sadly, over all these new films so far have turned out to be exactly what I feared. It's a cheap copy that doesn't give a crap about the established past of the saga. Have you ever had a dream when you were a kid about meeting someone you've always wanted to meet, someone you admired, and in the dream it's just lack luster, weird, and a let down? That's the feeling I get when I think of the new trilogy.

 

[Darth Fetty]

100%. It's a simple story that is really really limited and if you try to veer offcourse it won't feel like Star Wars. As Rich Evans said, Star Wars is creatively bankrupt. Heck they had to rehash the whole Death Star thing for ROTJ already in 1983.

I disagree. I know Clone Wars isn't the most popular thing, but there were several creative and engaging story arcs in that series that would have been a solid basis for a full-length film (admittedly there are also some arcs that would have been better if they were forgotten). And those same engaging story arcs didn't need a super weapon as a plot device, but were quite character-driven. I definitely think it's possible to develop loads of creative stories in the Star Wars universe, and they don't necessarily need to be a large epic of good team vs. bad team.

But instead of going the creative route, TFA rehashed the Death Star for the third time.... And TLJ also had Darth Vader/Kylo Ren kill the Emperor/Snoke in order to save Luke/Rey in a throne room with a space battle in the background (I'm still in shock at what a blatant copy that scene was).