Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

[HeartBlade]

No parallel is perfect. But I think the closest is WW1 to WW2. What with the Allies disarming after they won "the war to end all wars".

Well several points.

Regarding Luke, I guess we disagree on the character. I agree Luke could fall to the dark side but it would take a huge event (like his father being the second most evil man in the galaxy actually turning his sister evil) to work. Ben was literally sleeping and he saw the dark side in him. There was also darkness in Luke but Yoda didn’t strike him down.

It would have played well if we see Luke maybe ignoring clear dark signs from his nephew despite better judgement because he loves his nephew and then having Ben be the one who kills his growing order unprovoked (or at least edged on my Snoke), breaking Luke.

It’s as if a billionaire freaks out and declares bankruptcy. For a billionaire to declare that, something big must have happened (failed unwise business venture, trusted partner made terrible investments and he didn’t stop it, etc). Then we find out it’s because he overpaid on a McDonalds happy meal.

 

[HeartBlade]

No parallel is perfect. But I think the closest is WW1 to WW2. What with the Allies disarming after they won "the war to end all wars".

Regarding comparisons, I think something like the Russian revolution or US revolution makes more sense. Continuing the Star Wars story post OT is going to be hard but not impossible. There are many challenges that would naturally emerge following the Emperor’s death such as competing imperial powers following the power vacuum left by the Emperor, the difficulty of the rebellion to establish order given their small size, completion ideologies within the rebellion itself (some may want complete separatist freedom, others a unified democratic government, etc). Former allies become rivals, people become power hungry, others get sick of the politics and want to leave. Hell, crime lords like the hutts would be thriving since there is no government to properly regulate their crimes.

In this convoluted world, Rey and Finn can come in as new characters the old guard can pass the torch too. Luke doesn’t have to be miserable but he could just be focused on rebuilding the Jedi and teaching and is too old and weak to fight the various threats (he is also just one man). Han is a smuggler so doesn’t want to deal in politics while his wife is busy building coalitions, or maybe they have different ideologies that results in a rift (not happy about this one but could happen).

There are plenty of stories where the torch is passed from the old to the new without completely negating the success made by the old guard. I was necessary for the old guard to overthrow the tyrannical power that was. It’s up to the new guard to establish order in a now unruly galaxy.

 

[HeartBlade]

Or could be several years later. A new republic but without a supreme chancellor after the horror that was Palpatine.

No chancellor means decisions are slow and the government can’t act. In this time, a new threat, the First Order, rises like a terrorist cell to overthrow the young government and reestablish the imperial galaxy with propaganda like how the emperor got things done.

Rey and Co could be the ones to fight this new threat given that Leia is bogged down in politics and Luke assisting from the sidelines to train Rey. I honestly don’t know which story would make more money and be more Star Wars which is why I think a ST was difficult though and was interested in seeing how TFA played out.

 

[Joek3rr]

Well several points.

Regarding Luke, I guess we disagree on the character. I agree Luke could fall to the dark side but it would take a huge event (like his father being the second most evil man in the galaxy actually turning his sister evil) to work. Ben was literally sleeping and he saw the dark side in him. There was also darkness in Luke but Yoda didn’t strike him down.

It would have played well if we see Luke maybe ignoring clear dark signs from his nephew despite better judgement because he loves his nephew and then having Ben be the one who kills his growing order unprovoked (or at least edged on my Snoke), breaking Luke.

It’s as if a billionaire freaks out and declares bankruptcy. For a billionaire to declare that, something big must have happened (failed unwise business venture, trusted partner made terrible investments and he didn’t stop it, etc). Then we find out it’s because he overpaid on a McDonalds happy meal.

I mean we don't see it, but that's what Luke says. If you recall he says he saw darkness in Ben during moments of his training. And when he looked inside it was far worse then he imagined, Ben had already turned. And when you see how Luke reacts to the suggestion, that his sister might turn. And now Luke is seeing his nephew destroy everything he loves. What kind of reaction might Luke have, given his history with fear, anger, and hate? Particularly the fear of loosing those he loves.

 

[Joek3rr]

Regarding comparisons, I think something like the Russian revolution or US revolution makes more sense. Continuing the Star Wars story post OT is going to be hard but not impossible. There are many challenges that would naturally emerge following the Emperor’s death such as competing imperial powers following the power vacuum left by the Emperor, the difficulty of the rebellion to establish order given their small size, completion ideologies within the rebellion itself (some may want complete separatist freedom, others a unified democratic government, etc). Former allies become rivals, people become power hungry, others get sick of the politics and want to leave. Hell, crime lords like the hutts would be thriving since there is no government to properly regulate their crimes.

In this convoluted world, Rey and Finn can come in as new characters the old guard can pass the torch too. Luke doesn’t have to be miserable but he could just be focused on rebuilding the Jedi and teaching and is too old and weak to fight the various threats (he is also just one man). Han is a smuggler so doesn’t want to deal in politics while his wife is busy building coalitions, or maybe they have different ideologies that results in a rift (not happy about this one but could happen).

There are plenty of stories where the torch is passed from the old to the new without completely negating the success made by the old guard. I was necessary for the old guard to overthrow the tyrannical power that was. It’s up to the new guard to establish order in a now unruly galaxy.

Actually what you described is kinda how the canon goes, that I remember. After the Empire surrenders, the outer rim is mostly lawless. The mid rim is where the New Republic sets up shop. And as I recall many of the core worlds chose to remain independent. (You might want to Wookieepedia this, I'm probably messing it up). The Sequel Trilogy takes place 29 years after the Empire's surrender. So with the exception of the First Order which came to be in the unknown regions, the galaxy has stabilized.

 

[HeartBlade]

I mean we don't see it, but that's what Luke says. If you recall he says he saw darkness in Ben during moments of his training. And when he looked inside it was far worse then he imagined, Ben had already turned. And when you see how Luke reacts to the suggestion, that his sister might turn. And now Luke is seeing his nephew destroy everything he loves. What kind of reaction might Luke have, given his history with fear, anger, and hate? Particularly the fear of loosing those he loves.

but this makes absolutely no sense given what we know in TFA and the OT.

In TFA, Kylo Ren struggles to let go of the light, that he has too much light to be as powerful as Vader. He kills his dad to further immerse himself in the dark. This is the central point of his character.

meanwhile, Luke still has faith in Vader, a man who has killed tons of Jedi, younglings, and also stated it’s too late for him to be redeemed. Kylo hasn’t done anything so to suddenly be this irredeemable evil guy is a shift in his character and doesn’t make sense with his TFA persona.

 

[HeartBlade]

Actually what you described is kinda how the canon goes, that I remember. After the Empire surrenders, the outer rim is mostly lawless. The mid rim is where the New Republic sets up shop. And as I recall many of the core worlds chose to remain independent. (You might want to Wookieepedia this, I'm probably messing it up). The Sequel Trilogy takes place 29 years after the Empire's surrender. So with the exception of the First Order which came to be in the unknown regions, the galaxy has stabilized.

I do see inklings of this (the government gets blown up in TFA) but there is no discussion or development on them. So little that it honestly doesn’t make sense why the government doesn’t fund the resistance more to wipe out the first order (we don’t know if there are other threats and they have been on the government’s radar it seems).

now, I think with RoS the government has been replaced by the first order. Almost makes you think maybe the empire is a better form of government. At least the empire provides jobs and some regulation in the galaxy lol.

 

[HeartBlade]

But wow, the reviews for RoS are bad. At 56% (second lowest and only above Phantom Menace).

and this can’t be review bombing because this is critics only. It is a little funny that some critics are saying the Last Jedi was amazing, Disney was foolish to listen to the fans when there are expert directors that say the last Jedi is an example of how now to make a midquel.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

But wow, the reviews for RoS are bad. At 56% (second lowest and only above Phantom Menace).

and this can’t be review bombing because this is critics only.

Russian bots have struck again, this time posing as Access Media Journalists!

Destroying Star Wars has been a primary goal of the Kremlin since 1977, and the only holdover battle from the Cold War that is still actively being fought.

Everyone remembers when the Russians’ first salvo in this ongoing battle was submitting false editorial criticism in Starlog magazine, accusing the Jawas of being suppressed proletariat by the bourgeoisie capitalists of the “Star Wars Universe”, right?

And now they have set their sights on the “Rise of Skywalker”...

 

[NeoRutty]

Alrighty. This time I went edibles. And smoke.... but whatever... I like TLJ, but half of it is pretty bad. The good I love, but jeez the bad.

I’m also drinking red bull and gin.

I didn’t want to accidentally fall asleep.

Hey it’s not even on disney +... back to Netflix already.

- that is straight up a great opening shot.

- the whole BB8 plugging holes and smashing head - that’s the first time you think “oh it’s a KIDS movie this time...”

- this cut makes no sense!!!

- woah. A lot of weird cutting around how close or far Rey is to Luke when she’s handing off the lightsaber

- there’s a weird double beat with Rey twice in the film sounding like she’s reading off a prepared speech about why Luke needs to come with her. Why did this get by so many people to the final film? Test audiences must have been confused what Rey was hoping Luke would do.

- the tree and jedi books look too cartoony. It’s like gravity falls. One of the books should have been “Book 3”

-Luke keeps switching into Hammil to crack jokes... did Luke ever make a joke? Luke was pretty lame.

Oh no. Restart the clock! Thirty-three minutes.

- Lol. Space Leia is still stupid. Opening the door to let her in was stupider. Billie Lourde is awesome. How dare she put her at risk.

- chewy perfectly browned that porg. Chewy was willing to eat a space goat carcus on Endor.

- holdo is fine. she doesn’t bug me... but Charlize Theron did it better in Prometheus.

- who did rose’s hair in this? Who’s call was that?

- who took the time to make the CG animated display to go with Fin and Roses plan when they showed it to Poe?

- who is videoing Maz and why does no one care that Maz May die in front of them?

- Adam Driver kills EVERY SINGLE LINE in this.

- “I was cleaning my gun and it went off”

it must have killed Mark not to respond as Mark

-why is fin even remotely enjoying himself. His friends are gonna die. Let’s watch horses.

-

And he’s illegally parked. I illegally parked to buy weed and I was anxious the whole 8 minutes it took me.

- so weird that Fin uses the term “cops”

- why do resistance people have rings with a super easy to figure out hidden emblem. It’s like those stickers on transformers you have to rub... why would you have such an obvious give away.

- can’t believe the kid has a one word line, a noise, and he even acts THAT badly. “Go go go go woo”

- the whole horses with human faces chase just feels like it’s out of Harry Potter... which is probably the point cuz I went to Harry Potter world and that ride was incredible. Disney for sure was like “we need a planet....make it like cobblestone... poor looking kids... terribly designed CG... Harry Potter”

- All Kylo Rey Luke stuff is great. Some of my favorite Star Wars. I love when Luke full on tears the roof off a hut after seeing Rey and Kylo together. So good.

-Rey’s vision is cool as well. Fun to try and follow along.

- BB-8 is missing all charm and I’m not sure why... Real life over exposure? I thought he was cute in TFA last night tho.

-

imperials know what their garbage cans look like... even upside down... and especially sliding around upside down haphazardly.

- so angering. All the editing around the shuttles being shot out of space. It would take less than a minute... every time they show what’s happening, they shoot two ships to oblivion within 2 seconds of each other.

So 2 minutes tops for everyone

- this movie is soooo loooooong.

- it would probably hurt less getting decapitated than shot to death... yet phasma wants it to hurt?
Maybe they saw it off slowly....

- Fin said “Rebel Scum”!!!!

- hahahaha Hux straight up ready to just murder Kylo. Rain Johnson probably loves Star Scream.

- I can’t decide if I like it or not when Poe scratches BB-8 like a dog.

- “blow that piece of junk OUT OF the sky!” Best Adam Driver read in the flick.

- Fin dragged rose several miles. His calf’s are gonna be stiff.

- Luke and Kylo hold this pose for 2 minutes and 35 seconds... the editor of this movie is just.. the worst...

well good luck JJ with kylos redemption arc...Rian doubled down hard on Kylo being evil.

i would give TLJ a 6.8 out of 10

68%

that’s pretty much my grade average in high school... I didn’t fail, but my work should never be on the fridge door.

- Oh god I forgot about the stupid kid ending. Oh man. What a dumb call.

just knocked 5% off.

TLJ - 6.3 / 10

 

[sztriki]

i would give TLJ a 6.8 out of 10

68%

I’d say 69...COZ IT SSSSSUCKED!!!

 

[Ron]

Alrighty. This time I went edibles. And smoke.... but whatever... I like TLJ, but half of it is pretty bad. The good I love, but jeez the bad.

I’m also drinking red bull and gin.

I didn’t want to accidentally fall asleep.

View attachment 1092949

Hey it’s not even on disney +... back to Netflix already.

View attachment 1092950

- that is straight up a great opening shot.

- the whole BB8 plugging holes and smashing head - that’s the first time you think “oh it’s a KIDS movie this time...”

View attachment 1092955
View attachment 1092956
- this cut makes no sense!!!

- woah. A lot of weird cutting around how close or far Rey is to Luke when she’s handing off the lightsaber

- there’s a weird double beat with Rey twice in the film sounding like she’s reading off a prepared speech about why Luke needs to come with her. Why did this get by so many people to the final film? Test audiences must have been confused what Rey was hoping Luke would do.

- the tree and jedi books look too cartoony. It’s like gravity falls. One of the books should have been “Book 3”

-Luke keeps switching into Hammil to crack jokes... did Luke ever make a joke? Luke was pretty lame.

View attachment 1092961

Oh no. Restart the clock! Thirty-three minutes.

- Lol. Space Leia is still stupid. Opening the door to let her in was stupider. Billie Lourde is awesome. How dare she put her at risk.

- chewy perfectly browned that porg. Chewy was willing to eat a space goat carcus on Endor.

- holdo is fine. she doesn’t bug me... but Charlize Theron did it better in Prometheus.

- who did rose’s hair in this? Who’s call was that?

- who took the time to make the CG animated display to go with Fin and Roses plan when they showed it to Poe?

- who is videoing Maz and why does no one care that Maz May die in front of them?

View attachment 1092972

- Adam Driver kills EVERY SINGLE LINE in this.

- “I was cleaning my gun and it went off”

it must have killed Mark not to respond as Mark

-why is fin even remotely enjoying himself. His friends are gonna die. Let’s watch horses.

View attachment 1092974-

And he’s illegally parked. I illegally parked to buy weed and I was anxious the whole 8 minutes it took me.

- so weird that Fin uses the term “cops”

- why do resistance people have rings with a super easy to figure out hidden emblem. It’s like those stickers on transformers you have to rub... why would you have such an obvious give away.

- can’t believe the kid has a one word line, a noise, and he even acts THAT badly. “Go go go go woo”

- the whole horses with human faces chase just feels like it’s out of Harry Potter... which is probably the point cuz I went to Harry Potter world and that ride was incredible. Disney for sure was like “we need a planet....make it like cobblestone... poor looking kids... terribly designed CG... Harry Potter”

- All Kylo Rey Luke stuff is great. Some of my favorite Star Wars. I love when Luke full on tears the roof off a hut after seeing Rey and Kylo together. So good.

-Rey’s vision is cool as well. Fun to try and follow along.

- BB-8 is missing all charm and I’m not sure why... Real life over exposure? I thought he was cute in TFA last night tho.

View attachment 1092991-

imperials know what their garbage cans look like... even upside down... and especially sliding around upside down haphazardly.

- so angering. All the editing around the shuttles being shot out of space. It would take less than a minute... every time they show what’s happening, they shoot two ships to oblivion within 2 seconds of each other.

So 2 minutes tops for everyone

- this movie is soooo loooooong.

- it would probably hurt less getting decapitated than shot to death... yet phasma wants it to hurt?
Maybe they saw it off slowly....

- Fin said “Rebel Scum”!!!!

View attachment 1092995

- hahahaha Hux straight up ready to just murder Kylo. Rain Johnson probably loves Star Scream.

- I can’t decide if I like it or not when Poe scratches BB-8 like a dog.

View attachment 1092997

- “blow that piece of junk OUT OF the sky!” Best Adam Driver read in the flick.

- Fin dragged rose several miles. His calf’s are gonna be stiff.

View attachment 1092998

- Luke and Kylo hold this pose for 2 minutes and 35 seconds... the editor of this movie is just.. the worst...

well good luck JJ with kylos redemption arc...Rian doubled down hard on Kylo being evil.

i would give TLJ a 6.8 out of 10

68%

that’s pretty much my grade average in high school... I didn’t fail, but my work should never be on the fridge door.

- Oh god I forgot about the stupid kid ending. Oh man. What a dumb call.

just knocked 5% off.

TLJ - 6.3 / 10

Dude...this is the greatest breakdown of a movie I've ever read lol. I'm absolutely going to need you to do more of these for as long as both of us live.

And you can go ahead and forget about that whole getting you remarried business I mentioned because single drunk baked NeoRutty is the GOAT.

 

[HeartBlade]

Just a crazy thought but how would you guys respond if the leaks were an elaborate lie (the film shown to critics is a fake) and the ending has Rey turn to the dark side as a full Sith Lord and Kylo taking his mom’s saber and return as a Jedi.

and the credits end with “the saga will continue in episode x”

 

[sztriki]

Just a crazy thought but how would you guys respond if the leaks were an elaborate lie (the film shown to critics is a fake) and the ending has Rey turn to the dark side as a full Sith Lord and Kylo taking his mom’s saber and return as a Jedi.

and the credits end with “the saga will continue in episode x”

Not sure if even Andy Kaufman would go at such length for a practical joke. But would be awesome.

 

[Joek3rr]

but this makes absolutely no sense given what we know in TFA and the OT.

In TFA, Kylo Ren struggles to let go of the light, that he has too much light to be as powerful as Vader. He kills his dad to further immerse himself in the dark. This is the central point of his character.

meanwhile, Luke still has faith in Vader, a man who has killed tons of Jedi, younglings, and also stated it’s too late for him to be redeemed. Kylo hasn’t done anything so to suddenly be this irredeemable evil guy is a shift in his character and doesn’t make sense with his TFA persona.

Yeah Luke has faith that his father would come back. But do you think he came to that decision the moment he found Vader was his father? Or did it take him year to come around to that idea? And yes we know that Ben's decision wasn't made. Remember when Rey says to Luke "you failed Ben when you thought his decision was made!" No duh. Why do you think Luke exiled himself, and cut himself off from the Force. Maybe he feels a bad about that? Maybe he doesn't trust himself anymore?

 

[DARTH ANIBAL]

So it was, thanks for the heads up. Retracted and apology given.

All in jest, my friend.

hahahaha Hux straight up ready to just murder Kylo. Rain Johnson probably loves Star Scream.

I really did laugh out loud at this.

Dude...this is the greatest breakdown of a movie I've ever read lol. I'm absolutely going to need you to do more of these for as long as both of us live.

And you can go ahead and forget about that whole getting you remarried business I mentioned because single drunk baked NeoRutty is the GOAT.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[NeoRutty]

Dude...this is the greatest breakdown of a movie I've ever read lol. I'm absolutely going to need you to do more of these for as long as both of us live.

And you can go ahead and forget about that whole getting you remarried business I mentioned because single drunk baked NeoRutty is the GOAT.

Ha. I actually would do more just to give me something to do while I re watch the same movies over and over and over.

feel bad for my friends who get texts all hours of the night about what I am watching. Screen cap after screen cap... takes up 90% of my phone images

 

[Birdie]

Screw this, the Cats reviews are in....

 

[ConvergencePro]

Yeah Luke has faith that his father would come back. But do you think he came to that decision the moment he found Vader was his father? Or did it take him year to come around to that idea? And yes we know that Ben's decision wasn't made. Remember when Rey says to Luke "you failed Ben when you thought his decision was made!" No duh. Why do you think Luke exiled himself, and cut himself off from the Force. Maybe he feels a bad about that? Maybe he doesn't trust himself anymore?

It might be hard to see but Luke has just as bad of parent issues as Rey does throughout the entirety of the OT. They're just far better written in service of the story so that it blends in beautifully well and takes a back seat to the main things going on rather than hitting you over the head with it.

In StarWars/ANH we see this very blatantly in Lukes desire to learn anything he possibly can about his father. Sure he was raised by his Uncle and Aunt and has a "family" cares about, but he clearly feels a certain lack of familial belonging with them that he feels he would have were he raised by his true biological parents. Any time Luke hears something about his father he instantly lights up wanting to know more, thinking his father was a simple navigator on a spice freighter until Obi-wan starts dropping knowledge on him
Obi-wan not only tells Luke that Uncle Owen was essentially lying to him his whole life and hiding the truth, but that his father was actually a fallen War Hero of all things, and a Jedi Knight on top of it all having only fallen by being betrayed and murdered by his friend Darth Vader, adding more mystery and a desire to pursue that same path as his father. By the end of ANH Luke becomes a war hero himself and an ace pilot, again in his mind following in his fathers footsteps, and so he continues on the path to become a Jedi like him.

FFW to ESB and we continue to see this openly expressed. Luke even saying to Yoda flat out the major reason he wants to become a Jedi in the first place is to follow in his fathers footsteps; still seeking that sense of belonging through doing the same actions. Yoda chooses to continue to hide the truth about Lukes father from him, rather reinforcing the idea that Lukes father was not only a Jedi, but an immensely powerful one at that. When Luke starts to have visions of Vader torturing his friends, the people he does love and truly care about, he simply cant get past it. The man who betrayed and murdered his father, stealing that sense of belonging from him that hes always wanted, that same man is now torturing his best friends in an effort to get to him. And Luke just cant withstand it. He rushes in, arrogantly thinks himself a match for Vader, is antagonized, toyed with, and soundly then defeated, only to be dealt the most soul crushing blow of all.... The father who he's longed to follow in the foot steps of... the great war hero who in his mind was a beacon of hope to follow in example of... is actually the most evil man in the galaxy that just beat him within an inch of his life, cut off his hand, and told him that EVERYONE was lying to him. Its a soul breaking moment for Luke and one that does lasting harm which becomes expressed throughout the next chapter in the story

In ROTJ we find Luke in a incredibly fragile and conflicted position. This person hes wanted to know his whole life. Who's path he set himself off to follow in that seeking of belonging.. Is 2nd in command to the evil Empire he now fights against along side his friends, his family if you will. But with Luke feeling like even his own mentors have let him down by either telling him twisted truths or just outright lying to him in an effort to use Luke to their own ends, it's understandable Luke would want to find a third path that nobody else wants him to take. To try and convince his father, this person hes sought after his whole life, to change into being good. He convinces himself that it MUST be there because Vader honestly could have killed him at any point he wanted, but for some reason chose not to. Even tried to get Luke to join him in an effort to overthrow the Emperor to rule along side his father in the Emperors place, so obviously there's some rift there. Whether its out of love, familial obligation, or just plain being true to ones self, that's up to the audience to intemperate for themselves, but even today with all the awful stuff that happens in the world, killing ones own blood parent, whether they are a real piece of work or not, is generally still considered pretty goddamn messed up.. He places faith in that, maybe just maybe there is a chance to save him from himself, because how on earth could he possibly kill this person hes sought after his whole life, his actual father who is the entire reason he set out on this path in the first place? And he believes in is so much as to put absolutely everything on the line... his life, his friends, the rebellion, and in the end shows that he is not his father, but is actually stronger than him which in the end shows Vader that you can resist evils temptations, pulling him back to the light as well and proving that Luke was the one who was right all along. That it's not too late for anyone.

So when you take that character who stands apart from everyone else as an example to look up to. That told us all that maybe there's always a third option... and then turn that character into a defeated bitter old man who almost killed his nephew over a bad dream of all things (because nothing bad apparently happened prior)... Yeah, it's a little hard to believe and is gonna piss a lot of people off.

 

[NeoRutty]

A bad dream of all things...

Force visions in Star Wars:

Anakin sees Padme die in Childbirth - happens

Luke sees everything that happens on Cloud City - friends tortured. in pain. Happens. Has to spend years breaking Han out.

Sees Kylo kill all his students (I assume... we hear lightsabers and screaming...) maybe he even sees Han die... ENTIRE PLANETS MILLIONS OF PEOPLE EXPLODE...

Luke, who has traveled down the dark path so forever will it control his destiny.... thinks of killing him and stopping it all... does not... once again turning away from that temptation he has genetically in him...

And Ben does everything in the vision... which, Luke in the end kind of caused.

But I mean, how wrong was he... Ben could have just took out Luke, but instead killed all his fellow students.

One does not do that cuz you find your creepy uncle staring at you holding a drawn sword while you sleep.

I would probably freak out too if I found my uncle in my room holding a gun at me... but the first thing I did after fighting him would not be to go kill all the students in the house next door.