Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

[ConvergencePro]

View attachment 1092840

Get it together Bitmoji... red button on side!?!?

And a joint between the fingers of the other hand . I gotta get this app

 

[Solo4114]

Because a story where Luke is just ***** returned is not interesting.

I was fine if they never continued the story... but since they were going to, time to make things crappy for everyone so thereès something to fight back from.

Thisthisthisthisthisthisthis.

You want a happy ending for the OT characters? Cool. But that means that you can't ever really revisit them. They ride off into the sunset, and either you only meet one or two as Force ghosts, or as "archival holo footage" or whathaveyou. OR they all come back and you share another adventure with them....and it turns out that they failed ultimately because otherwise there'd be nothing for anyone to do in the new films.

Or they succeeded, but now you have to upend the galaxy again. So, the Empire is defeated, but the Sovereign Space Nation of Fliggityfloggam has risen as a new threat and could take over the galaxy if they aren't stopped! Or whatever. At the end of the day, you only get a new story with the old heroes if somehow in some way, their victory ends up going away.

I knew this would happen as soon as they announced the old actors would be coming back to reprise their roles. I knew the characters would die. I knew their fairy tale ending in ROTJ would be undone somehow. I knew that their ride into the sunset would actually then cut to them still riding and being like "Man....we've been riding for forever and I think I'm suffering from dehydration now, and it looks like there's wolves following us..."

You can't create drama without, you know, creating drama. And if you don't have drama, then what you have is pointless masturbatory fan fiction at best. Watching the ongoing successes of people who don't face any real hardship would be incredibly boring and unsatisfying.


Consider the following: the triumphs of the Greatest Generation at the end of World War II. Evil defeated! The Nazis destroyed! Hitler dead! Democracy victorious!!

And then what? Repressive anti-communism and paranoia, the rise of the Cold War and the threat of nuclear annihilation by our own hands, the social upheavals of the 1960s and 70s, the Vietnam war, a collapse of trust in government, Watergate, etc., etc., etc.

At the end of Watchmen when Dr. Manhattan says "End? Nothing ever ends, Adrian," this is what he's talking about. When the story continues....the story continues. The happy ending is rendered null and void because it wasn't an ending at all. You either have to step out of that story altogether and ignore anything that comes after the happy ending, or you have to accept that the point isn't the happy ending itself; the point is the struggle to find it. That's what makes the human condition meaningful. That's what makes heroes heroic: they take on the difficult task of battling against the darkness, simply to hold it at bay a little while longer until their light is extinguished and they pass the task on to the next generation. Hopefully they leave that next generation a little better equipped to fight the good fight, but sometimes, all they can do is fight the best holding action they can. And that's just human existence, and that's fine. That's what it's supposed to be, and the point of it is to find enjoyment and meaning in your time here -- however brief it may be -- in the face of all of this.

One can choose to see this as bleak, or one can choose to see it as insanely, audaciously hopeful and positive. In the face of a vast, uncaring, often cruel universe, we struggle on anyway. We fight the good fight in spite of it, and maybe by doing so, we actually succeed even if only for a time. That's a triumph to my way of seeing things. Because the alternative is simply giving into nihilism and saying "What's the point" and letting the darkness engulf you. That's easy. Any schmuck can do that. Fighting against it for the sake of others? That's what makes a hero.

 

[Mr Webber]

That's an awfully childish stance, no? Pretty much equivalent to holding your hand right in front of a sibling's face and taunting them with, "I'm not touching you!" Sorry (not really), broken rules or not, I don't see the point in posting in a Post-release thread just to proudly (wtf?) proclaim, "I didn't and won't ever see _______!" If a person watched the movie and wants to present a valid critique, great. My point is not the censoring of dissenting opinions. But maybe if people don't "exercise their God given right to just ignore stuff" and instead choose to incessantly whine about it...I don't know, if the shoe fits, right? That goes both ways, doesn't it?

If it relates to the topic it has every right to be in the thread, deal with it. Whining about people whining just comes across as more whining. All my comments have been directly related to the perspective of someone who hasnt seen it yet. Just wait till I do see it.

 

[robn1]

You want a happy ending for the OT characters? Cool. But that means that you can't ever really revisit them.

OR they all come back and you share another adventure with them....and it turns out that they failed ultimately because otherwise there'd be nothing for anyone to do in the new films...
Or they succeeded, but now you have to upend the galaxy again. So, the Empire is defeated, but the Sovereign Space Nation of Fliggityfloggam has risen as a new threat and could take over the galaxy if they aren't stopped! Or whatever. At the end of the day, you only get a new story with the old heroes if somehow in some way, their victory ends up going away.

Do you not know how fairy tales work? Those characters fought the good fight, defeated their enemies and earned their happily ever afters. You can tell new stories, even with tragic endings, but it wasn't necessary for them all to become deadbeats and live 30 years of misery just to die empty meaningless deaths.

Consider the following: the triumphs of the Greatest Generation at the end of World War II. Evil defeated! The Nazis destroyed! Hitler dead! Democracy victorious!!

And then what? Repressive anti-communism and paranoia, the rise of the Cold War and the threat of nuclear annihilation by our own hands, the social upheavals of the 1960s and 70s, the Vietnam war, a collapse of trust in government, Watergate, etc., etc., etc.

These are all new threats that occurred after the fact, and none of it undid the sacrifices of the WWII heroes. It's not like Hitler survived and came back to start his crap again, which is what's happening in TROS.

 

[sbaxter]

I'm not sure I would ever say that Luke actually "loves" his father. Hes simply trying to save him because he is family

I disagree with this on the basis of the definition of "love." It isn't defined by warm regards and feelings (although those certainly can be and should usually be a part of how it manifests). Love is service to another -- self-sacrificing service. It is an action verb, -- a thing a person does -- not what a person feels. It is a decision you make, and an ongoing commitment to that decision that you honor, even when it is difficult. In fact, it finds its most meaningful expression when it is most difficult, much more so than when it is easy. It is not something that just happens to you. It is a decision you make each and every day. For me, most days the decision is easy. Some days it is not easy at all. Most days, I adore my wife and feel my love for her. Same thing with my children, so as to make it clear than I am not speaking only about romantic love, but neither am I exempting it. Some days, however, my wife really gets on my nerves, or my children will do something that makes me profoundly angry, for example. On those days, I love each of them because I promised I would, and I trust that the warm feelings will return. So far, they have always come back PDQ, and in many ways they are stronger than ever. But my decision and commitment are not contingent on those feelings. I am just as bound, willfully so, even if those feelings go away completely for some strange reason. But love defined by the way one person feels about another is necessarily temporary, because no emotional state is constant.

SSB

 

[Paul Andrew]

I've read two reviews so far. One, source I don't recall, thought the flick was perfectly fine, but not outstanding among Star Wars films, the other (at Forbes) absolutely savaged it. It has some mild spoilers, so I'm not linking to it, but it's easy enough to find if you want.

 

[DARTH ANIBAL]

If it relates to the topic it has every right to be in the thread, deal with it. Whining about people whining just comes across as more whining. All my comments have been directly related to the perspective of someone who hasnt seen it yet. Just wait till I do see it.

Um...where was the whining? I'm pondering--waxing philosophical, if you will--about what exactly is added to a conversation by someone making it a point to essentially say that they have no firsthand knowledge about what is being discussed.

"I'm really excited about going to eat at Joe's Diner this weekend."
"Meh. It sucks."
"Oh, really? What did you have when you went there?"
"I've never been there."

So, whining is okay, but whining about whining is just too much whining? Oookaaay.

My point is, trash the movie if you don't like it. I don't care. Doesn't rob me of any of my enjoyment, if I do enjoy it (I can't say for sure since I haven't seen it yet). But to weigh in before watching it seems contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian.

I see you're digging The Mandalorian, though (or, at least, Chapter 7). That's awesome. They're doing a great job with it.

 

[PantheraGem]

I'm enjoying Mandalorian as well, for what it's worth. I hadn't even planned on watching it.

 

[NeoRutty]

After ep 4, the Xena episode where there was no cameo by Ted Raimi, I decided to wait til it was through the season and watch it all chapters...

But now that I have Disney + I will likely just catch up and watch as it goes.

get my $89 a year worth

 

[Joek3rr]

Do you not know how fairy tales work? Those characters fought the good fight, defeated their enemies and earned their happily ever afters. You can tell new stories, even with tragic endings, but it wasn't necessary for them all to become deadbeats and live 30 years of misery just to die empty meaningless deaths.



These are all new threats that occurred after the fact, and none of it undid the sacrifices of the WWII heroes. It's not like Hitler survived and came back to start his crap again, which is what's happening in TROS.

Nobody lived 30 years of misery. Everything was hunky dory until that one night. Which was sometime between 28 and 32 ABY. TFA takes place 30 years after ROTJ, that makes it 34 ABY. So we're talking 2 to 4 years, that our heroes were down and out.

Oh and conflicts after WW2 didn't undo the sacrifices? The Allies had fought a hard won victory to free the world from the Nazi's and Japanese Imperialism, only for that to be replaced with Soviet backed Communism.

 

[NeoRutty]

Also the Nazi party rose from the ashes of WW1...

Nobodys ever really gone....

 

[robn1]

Nobody lived 30 years of misery. Everything was hunky dory until that one night. Which was sometime between 28 and 32 ABY. TFA takes place 30 years after ROTJ, that makes it 34 ABY. So we're talking 2 to 4 years, that our heroes were down and out.

Their lives were turned to crap and their sacrifices undone. There's a lot of talk about this trilogy being nothing but fan service, but this does not service the fans at all.

Oh and conflicts after WW2 didn't undo the sacrifices? The Allies had fought a hard won victory to free the world from the Nazi's and Japanese Imperialism, only for that to be replaced with Soviet backed Communism.

As I said these are all new threats, not the old ones come back.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

The real world parallels to the ST really don’t work.

I will have to recheck my history texts, but I don’t believe that Hitler returned, after committing suicide in a bunker, with a fleet of fully-manned and hidden Nazi naval vessels (each of them armed with atomic weapons), thus rendering the sacrifice of thousands of lives meaningless.

I could be wrong.

“Everything has transpired as I have FORESEEN (insert evil cackle)!”

 

[NeoRutty]

I dont exactly think they do... but I remember the uproar that the First Order was a thing after the Empire collapsed...

I was like... thats exactly how Hitler gained power...

Its like with the whole Stormtroopers are supposed to be clones bit...

Im like... the guys in Vietnam arent all the same soldiers that went to Desert Storm... the clones werent immortal... in 20 years there would be a total turn over.

*again, ignore lack of punctuation. Avid is forcing me to have a french Canadian keyboard and I dont want I.T. messing with my computer for an hour.

 

[Mr Webber]

Um...where was the whining? I'm pondering, waxing philosophical, if you will, about what exactly is added to a conversation by someone making it a point to essentially say that they have no firsthand knowledge about what is being discussed.

"I'm really excited about going to eat at Joe's Diner this weekend."
"Meh. It sucks."
"Oh, really? What did you have when you went there?"
"I've never been there."

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So, whining is okay, but whining about whining is just too much whining? Oookaaay.

My point is, trash the movie if you don't like it. I don't care. Doesn't rob me of any of my enjoyment, if I do enjoy it (I can't say for sure since I haven't seen it yet). But to weigh in before watching it just seems contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian.

I see you're digging The Mandalorian, though (or, at least, Chapter 7). That's awesome. They're doing a great job with it.

I've been following the leaks for this train wreck from the start, all confirmed by the way. I've basically seen it.

The Mandalorian is so far away from the Disney trilogy its almost like its made by an entirely different company. Simple.

ADDITION : Wrongly mistook you for another member, apologies.

 

[Joek3rr]

Their lives were turned to crap and their sacrifices undone. There's a lot of talk about this trilogy being nothing but fan service, but this does not service the fans at all.



As I said these are all new threats, not the old ones come back.

I've not heard that. I hear a lot of 'the fans were given a big middle finger.'

 

[Joek3rr]

The real world parallels to the ST really don’t work.

I will have to recheck my history texts, but I don’t believe that Hitler returned, after committing suicide in a bunker, with a fleet of fully-manned and hidden Nazi naval vessels (each of them armed with atomic weapons), thus rendering the sacrifice of thousands of lives meaningless.

I could be wrong.

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“Everything has transpired as I have FORESEEN (insert evil cackle)!”

No parallel is perfect. But I think the closest is WW1 to WW2. What with the Allies disarming after they won "the war to end all wars".

 

[robn1]

Do I have to bring up your reply to a rather benign post made by another member in The Mandalorian thread where you posted a meme stating nobody cares what you think?

That was someone else

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Interesting

 

[Mr Webber]

That was someone else

So it was, thanks for the heads up. Retracted and apology given.