Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

[Cephus]

I'm probably not going to make any friends saying this.......

But all these people, here, YouTube, and elsewhere on the Internet saying they aren't going to episode 9. I have to wonder why? Sure they didn't like TLJ or whatever the case may be. But a fan, a true fan. Would go to the next film regardless. A true fan sticks with his or her franchise through thick and thin, through the highs and lows. They love their franchise. But it would seem that for so many that love is very very conditional. At which point one wonders if they ever truly loved it? Because to truly love something is to look past its flaws, it's shortcomings. Look at The Phantom Menace, it wasn't a great film. Yet the fans still went to Attack of the Clones, which was a worse film. And still the fans went to Revenge of the Sith. The Clone Wars film was less then stellar, and Ahsoka was very much maligned. But the fans stuck with it, and where awarded with some of the best Star Wars content. We Star Wars fans may not have had as many "bad apples" as the Star Trek fans have had, but we've had our fair share. What has changed? Why abandon your franchise now?

Most of us are fans of the original trilogy, we're not fans of all things Star Wars. Just because you slap a label on something, that doesn't make it good. I sat through Phantom Menace. Hated it. Never went to the theater to see the other two. Haven't been in a theater in decades. Won't ever go again to see anything. I watch all of my movies on Bluray and have a massive collection. I bought TFA and Rogue One. Liked RO. Couldn't stand TFA. Think TLJ was the worst garbage I've seen in a long time and I watch a lot of really bad movies. It isn't Star Wars. None of it is. Star Wars ended in 1983. This is all bad fanfic. The same goes for Star Trek. I'm a fan of TOS. Never liked any of the other series. I bought the first JJ-Trek movie. Never went back after that. In retrospect, I saw the second one and it was awful. But it's not Star Trek. It's fanfic. I'm not a fan of a franchise, I'm a fan of good movies. The new ones simply are not good.

 

[Jaitea]

I wouldn't go as far as not seeing it in the cinema,...I'm hoping to be thrilled & have my faith in Disney/LFL reassured.....

......BUT!!

right now, I'm prepared for disappointment

J

 

[Psab keel]

Telling others that they aren't the real deal when we are ALL participants in a forum on the subject seems disingenuous.

If you take anything from this it's that there are many apects to fandom. Just because some people don't care for all of Star Wars doesn't invalidate their passion for it and to make a point of calling those same people out as though you are the one authority on the matter makes you an elitist.

I'm happy to express my opinions and can think for myself. I've seen some people time and again resort to personal insults because I disagree with them. If that's what you want to devolve into doing then you should honestly ask yourself why you participate in the discussion if you refuse to acknowledge that others may have a different view. It's the same dismissive attitude that has driven a lot of fans away and you're not helping matters.

Have your opinion. Just don't dismiss me as a person because we don't see eye to eye. I'm happy to tell you you're wrong but I would never insult you for not agreeing with me. It's about questioning the idea, not the person behind it, and when you call someone a name because you can't defend your argument then you reveal how immature you are. Some people don't seem able to separate the two.

 

[Joek3rr]

They stomped on Luke 'just cause' and totally undid his character.

I know some might go, "not again" but I've come across something about Luke which I think is really cool. And I'm dying to share it.

So in the Hero's Journey(depends on who's version you look at) the Hero goes through a death and rebirth/resurrection. As I understand it, sometimes it's literal rebirth, sometimes it's a metaphorical rebirth. I think Luke's arc in follows this metaphorical death and rebirth.

Firstly in the flashback scene Luke is buried under rubble of Ben's hut. I believe this is metaphor for Luke Skywalker "dying" and being "buried". When he digs his way out of the rubble, he's faced with flames, this would be the metaphor for the hero's descent into the abyss or hell. It's should be no surprise that when we see Luke, he's not Luke Skywalker. He's, how did Mark put it? He's "Jake Skywalker", Luke Skywalker is "dead". But then fast forward to Crait. This is the moment where Luke Skywalker is "reborn". The Crait sequence has a some very cool visual metaphors. Luke is shown wearing both black and white, symbolizing that Luke has balanced the Dark and Light with in him. He is shown walking from darkness into light, walking through flames. Symbolizing his journey to enlightenment. And the big one for what I'm talking about, Luke is seen emerging out of a ovoid shaped opening.(sounds weird I know, but depictions of the female reproductive system symbolizing birth is not uncommon, particularly in Hinduism) Luke Skywalker is reborn at this moment. Anyways I thought this was pretty cool.

So coming back unto topic. I think this idea of death and rebirth is going to play into episode 9. I believe that Ben and Rey are the reborn Anakin and Padmé, at minimum metaphorically speaking, but very possibly it's literal. So I'm going to throw out some interesting things, some food for thought...

Firstly the similarities between them....

(Please note that Rian insisted that Rey's escape pod look like a coffin)

"The goal of Anakin is to bring Padmé back from the dead." George Lucas (The Darth Vader comic has shown that Vader built his castle for this purpose)

Look at the similarities between Padmé and Rey/Kira

And Anakin and Ben

Padmé Amidala, her last name comes from Dalai Lama, a person who is believed to be reincarnated.

The orange/red gowns worn by her and her handmaids are designed to imitate a Phoenix fire. A mythic bird that dies and is reborn.(the legend of the Phoenix exists within Star Wars as the legend of the Starbird, the symbol of the Rebel Alliance, New Republic, and Resistance)

Ben somehow seems to know Rey even though they've never met.

Ben yells to Finn, "That lightsaber, it belongs to me!" Ben has never seen that lightsaber before in is life. He has no idea it's Anakin's. And it doesn't belong to him......or does it.........

 

[Psab keel]

While your theory is interesting, it's too complicated to make it to the big screen. Even if this were the outcome of the story no general audience member is going to get it. All of those disparate ideas and color choices for what each thing symbolizes in context to the nine film saga is interesting but isn't in fact even remotely close to the truth. If they'd thought all of the elements of these films down to those very last details to try and make it all cohesive then we would be witnessing the work of pure genius and it's clear we're not.

Having a side by side shot comparison where some shots mimic others in earlier installments is not likely intentional by the film makers and while it could be, I doubt it. A lot of film making is done on the fly and changes are made to the script all the time so for this to be the grand plan all along seems unlikely. These films have spanned 40 years. Do you really think that Lucasfilm has thought about it with THIS much depth? Not at all!

Especially given that Rian was intent on not following what J.J. tried to set up in TFA and go with his own vision for the story.

Fans tend to make more of the films than the film makers do.

 

[Joek3rr]

While your theory is interesting, it's too complicated to make it to the big screen. Even if this were the outcome of the story no general audience member is going to get it. All of those disparate ideas and color choices for what each thing symbolizes in context to the nine film saga is interesting but isn't in fact even remotely close to the truth. If they'd thought all of the elements of these films down to those very last details to try and make it all cohesive then we would be witnessing the work of pure genius and it's clear we're not.

Having a side by side shot comparison where some shots mimic others in earlier installments is not likely intentional by the film makers and while it could be, I doubt it. A lot of film making is done on the fly and changes are made to the script all the time so for this to be the grand plan all along seems unlikely. These films have spanned 40 years. Do you really think that Lucasfilm has thought about it with THIS much depth? Not at all!

Especially given that Rian was intent on not following what J.J. tried to set up in TFA and go with his own vision for the story.

Fans tend to make more of the films than the film makers do.

I once thought as well. But then I started reading things here and there. And I started thinking there was a bit to much going on to be just coincidence. 6 months ago I would have rolled my eyes at what I just posted.

 

[Psab keel]

You're reaching man.

A person coming off the street to see a new Star Wars movie is not going to pick up any of the things you are talking about.

You have a theory. That's fine. But it's not likely the case.

 

[Bigdaddy]

That's the trouble with data mining, it often leads to confirmation bias.

 

[NeoRutty]

Just cuz I like to bring "balance" I'll state for the thread that I STILL dig what they did with Luke - not the thrown lightsaber, not the milk drinking... but every other character trait.

COME AT ME!

Man if he was "Luke-dalf the White" it would've been SO BORING.

I dunno... Maybe I'm just a dude that suddenly had everything crash around him and can see how quickly you can go from Mr. Good Times to "EVERYONE CAN JUST P!$$ OFF!"

I straight up love Luke in TLJ... so I guess that whole bit was directed at guys like me. Heck I wanted to see Luke full dark side...

 

[Joek3rr]

You're reaching man.

A person coming off the street to see a new Star Wars movie is not going to pick up any of the things you are talking about.

You have a theory. That's fine. But it's not likely the case.

That's just it. It's not my theory. I discovered by accident. Thought it was the dumbest thing ever. But then the more I started looking at it. The more I started looking at the mythological inspirations, it started to make sense.

If George is to be trusted "I'm telling an old myth in a new way." Then Star Wars is meant to be a modern myth. And a part of that mythological story is the death and rebirth of the hero(s).

 

[Psab keel]

By that estimation Padme would need to be a Jedi which we know for a fact that she wasn't and trying to retconn that now into the story would be so bafflingly idiotic that I might just have an aneurysm.

Plus it's just a stupid idea to begin with. Why would they need to be reincarnated? Why didn't Obi-Wan or Yoda get reincarnated? Why didn't every stormtrooper and rebel soldier who died get reincarnated? What purpose would ANY of this serve to the story?

If this isn't your theory then who's is it?

Anakin was redeemed at the end of Jedi. That's the end of his story.

Again if this is even true, we are focusing on old characters because the creative team at Lucasfilm is so devoid of an original thought that they have to rely on existing characters rather than develop their new cast.

 

[Jaitea]

Meh...

 

[Galactican]

So, Kylo and Rey melt together to ignite a blue lightsaber?

 

[BTTUK]

Meh...


View attachment 1008216

It's a good effort for whomever made this piece of fan art.

 

[sztriki]

That poster was confirmed as fan-made.
Regarding the fascinatingly brilliant repetition of themes in Star Wars please go to 10:54, sums up much better than I ever could:

 

[Joek3rr]

By that estimation Padme would need to be a Jedi which we know for a fact that she wasn't and trying to retconn that now into the story would be so bafflingly idiotic that I might just have an aneurysm.

Plus it's just a stupid idea to begin with. Why would they need to be reincarnated? Why didn't Obi-Wan or Yoda get reincarnated? Why didn't every stormtrooper and rebel soldier who died get reincarnated? What purpose would ANY of this serve to the story?

If this isn't your theory then who's is it?

Anakin was redeemed at the end of Jedi. That's the end of his story.

Again if this is even true, we are focusing on old characters because the creative team at Lucasfilm is so devoid of an original thought that they have to rely on existing characters rather than develop their new cast.

The theory, I believe originated on a YouTube channel called Wayward Jedi. Unfortunately, he's rebooted his channel and has yet to reupload his old videos. I'll do my best to impart the ideas from memory.

The concept is this. Anakin as the chosen one is meant to bring balance to the Force. In order to do that he himself needs to be in balance. The best way for a person to achieve balance is through love. In Revenge of the Sith Padme, is the only person that could possibly bring Anakin back from the Dark Side. Even after his fall, and he gets those red/yellow evil eyes when he talks to Padme those evil eyes go away. Which brings us to a problem with Anakin's relationship with Padme. According to George, Anakin's love for Padme is not an unconditional compassionate love, but rather a possessive love, more akin to lust. Anakin need to surrender his power to Padme, and his love. Had he done so, he would have achieved a true lasting balance. "Anakin all I want is your love." "Love won't save you Padme. Only my new powers can do that." But yet we know that from the film that Anakin's love could have saved her and that Anakin's new powers ended up destroying the only he cared about. In ROTJ Anakin's love for his son allows him to in that moment to die a balanced person, imparting balance on the Force, but it's a temporary balance. "For many years, there was balance..." When Anakin "died" and became Vader, Padme died at the same time*. According to the films, Anakin was responsible for Padme's death, either directly, in that blinded by hate, he drew upon Padme's life energies. And/or indirectly, as Padme surrendered those life energies, choosing to accompany her soul mate to the underworld.

After Anakin died and became one with the Force, he would have been reunited with Padme, but without the Chosen One, the Force is swinging back to imbalance. If Star Wars is to follow a mythopoetic structure

then the story should begin to come around and tie in with the Prequels, in particular with The Phantom Menace.(It's curious that episode 9 comes out 20 years since TPM) If you notice where 'resurrection' is on the circle, that's about where we are in the story. So to tie in with the prequels and to parallel mythology, Anakin and Padme go through a resurrection. Anakin will finish what he was chosen to do.

Anywho that's the jist of it, I think I did a good job a butchering it. So if Ben and Rey are the reborn Anakin and Padme, is still up in the air. But I think it's safe to say that at minimum their story is mirroring Anakin and Padme's, but in reverse. Oh, here's another cool tie between Anakin and Ben, this scene takes place after Vader has walked through the "door" under his castle.

* Rabbit trail time. So in ROTS, in the sequence where Padme is dying and Anakin is being put in his suit. You can hear Anakin's heartbeat, the moment the mask is lowered down and it seals, the heartbeat quits. And when Vader takes his first breath, the heartbeat resumes. Literally Anakin died, and Vader was born. Anywho I always thought that was kinda cool. Rabbit trail over

 

[Psab keel]

It's too complex for a general audience. It will never happen.

 

[cboath]

I've never seen anyone so determined to make everyone else agree with them.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Whereas I like it. *shrug* YMMV

 

[Psab keel]

I mean fan theories are fun to think about. I often try to ponder what could have been with the existing films, typically tweaking the content in ways I think could have worked better. It's a fun mental exercise and one that helps me develop ideas for my own writing.

I'm trying my best to use Star Wars as I did when I was a kid. To inspire me to make my own world's and characters.