Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker?


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And if Luke didn’t leave the map, why does the First Order and the Resistance care about the map in the first place?
They knew that Luke was looking for old Jedi temples. The map was a map of Jedi Temples. Luke removed the part of the map with the earliest temples as a way to hide the temples, and himself, from the First Order. It was saved on a thumbdrive which was hidden on Jakku until Leia sent Poe to get it. Leia, and therefore the Resistance knew the significance of the portion of the map with the most ancient Jedi temples. So rather than telling people "It's a map to an old temple," Poe simplified his explanation to "It's a map to Luke Skywalker." It's a little more likely that someone would react positively to that name than to finding old ruins.
It doesn't have to be a big mystery.

I've made my peace with the PT
The Clone Wars series has pretty much replaced Episodes 1 and 2 in my head. I haven't watched either one of them in years, but I'll put on some TCW to see characters that I actually like watching. I like watching them because they were developed in the cartoon in a way they couldn't do in 4 hours of movie.
 
They knew that Luke was looking for old Jedi temples. The map was a map of Jedi Temples. Luke removed the part of the map with the earliest temples as a way to hide the temples, and himself, from the First Order. It was saved on a thumbdrive which was hidden on Jakku until Leia sent Poe to get it. Leia, and therefore the Resistance knew the significance of the portion of the map with the most ancient Jedi temples. So rather than telling people "It's a map to an old temple," Poe simplified his explanation to "It's a map to Luke Skywalker." It's a little more likely that someone would react positively to that name than to finding old ruins.
It doesn't have to be a big mystery.


The Clone Wars series has pretty much replaced Episodes 1 and 2 in my head. I haven't watched either one of them in years, but I'll put on some TCW to see characters that I actually like watching. I like watching them because they were developed in the cartoon in a way they couldn't do in 4 hours of movie.

RedheadKevin yes that definitely makes sense which begs the question why did Luke go to find the first Jedi temples. Surely not to find a place to die unless he finds some truth that is so horrifying that he feels the Jedi should end with him being the last.

the point being that if this is case 1) this isn’t clearly conveyed in TFA which is a narrative issue and 2) the story of TLJ then doesn’t really make sense hence why I take issue with the narrative of TLJ. TLJ definitely wanted to do its own thing and the trilogy suffered for it. This movie wasn’t good as a stand-alone film but it never really had a chance because the lead in to it broke the narrative and doesn’t flow from TFA.
 
RedheadKevin yes that definitely makes sense which begs the question why did Luke go to find the first Jedi temples. Surely not to find a place to die unless he finds some truth that is so horrifying that he feels the Jedi should end with him being the last.
Why would the last Jedi Master go looking for the history of the Jedi Order? Why would he also go into hiding after he failed as a Master and his Padawan became the next Darth Vader? Those seem like two pretty compelling reasons. He went to find a place to die because he couldn't handle that he nearly murdered his nephew in his sleep, and that nephew destroyed the new Jedi Order. Then the nephew became a bigger threat to galactic peace than Vader was (if you go by "number of planets blown up.")

the point being that if this is case 1) this isn’t clearly conveyed in TFA which is a narrative issue and 2) the story of TLJ then doesn’t really make sense hence why I take issue with the narrative of TLJ. TLJ definitely wanted to do its own thing and the trilogy suffered for it. This movie wasn’t good as a stand-alone film but it never really had a chance because the lead in to it broke the narrative and doesn’t flow from TFA.
They were trying to keep Luke's deal a secret in TFA. Nobody had seen him in years, and the whole movie revolved around the map. Han says that Luke went looking for temples. It's left to the viewer to piece together that the map left by Luke would lead to the temples and not the man himself. A map to an individual person, who's got a spaceship is just a silly thing. But it's simpler to say "it's a map to Luke" than "it's a map to a possible location for an ancient Jedi Temple. Maybe even the first Jedi Temple. If Luke completed his quest to find the first Jedi Temple, this is where he'd be." It's not spoon-fed to you, but it doesn't take a huge leap to understand it.
You've got it exactly right that TLJ tried to do its own thing. I've said that it's Rian's personal speed bump in JJ Abrams' sequel trilogy, which forced JJ to squeeze two movies into the Rise of Skywalker.
Speaking of Luke's spaceship: How did he get to Ahch-To? He didn't have an astromech droid. Unless he sunk the droid with his ship or dismantled it.
 
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Meh, if you feel THAT bad, have no intention of trying to right your perceived wrong, and just flat out give up on everything, why bother to look for somewhere to hide yourself and die? Just pull that saber and perform the Jedi equivalent of Hari Kari (or whatever it is) and end it all on the spot since that ostensibly all your journey is going to do, result in your death.

You search those temples for a way to help you turn Ben back or defeat the FO, etc. Problem was, TLJ coopted the reason into self loathing and cowardice which is a fail.
 
If he wasn't interested in the Jedi temple and he was just going somewhere to die, then why Ahch-to? Why not go somewhere that doesn't have a map to get to it and is truly "unfindable"?
 
...why bother to look for somewhere to hide yourself and die? Just pull that saber and perform the Jedi equivalent of Hari Kari...
This might be a bit out of left field, but we've only seen two characters commit suicide in Star Wars, and both times, it was treated as something extraordinary. There was that A-Wing pilot who kamikaze'd the SSD, and Admiral Holdo. Even droids don't typically act as walking bombs and destroy themselves. So it makes me wonder if suicide is a major taboo in the Galaxy Far, Far Away. Like, it's nearly unthinkable for Star Wars characters to even contemplate suicide out of depression, much less follow through with it. It could just be something that you DON'T DO in the GFFA. Just my thoughts.
 
Why would the last Jedi Master go looking for the history of the Jedi Order? Why would he also go into hiding after he failed as a Master and his Padawan became the next Darth Vader? Those seem like two pretty compelling reasons. He went to find a place to die because he couldn't handle that he nearly murdered his nephew in his sleep, and that nephew destroyed the new Jedi Order. Then the nephew became a bigger threat to galactic peace than Vader was (if you go by "number of planets blown up.")


They were trying to keep Luke's deal a secret in TFA. Nobody had seen him in years, and the whole movie revolved around the map. Han says that Luke went looking for temples. It's left to the viewer to piece together that the map left by Luke would lead to the temples and not the man himself. A map to an individual person, who's got a spaceship is just a silly thing. But it's simpler to say "it's a map to Luke" than "it's a map to a possible location for an ancient Jedi Temple. Maybe even the first Jedi Temple. If Luke completed his quest to find the first Jedi Temple, this is where he'd be." It's not spoon-fed to you, but it doesn't take a huge leap to understand it.
You've got it exactly right that TLJ tried to do its own thing. I've said that it's Rian's personal speed bump in JJ Abrams' sequel trilogy, which forced JJ to squeeze two movies into the Rise of Skywalker.
Speaking of Luke's spaceship: How did he get to Ahch-To? He didn't have an astromech droid. Unless he sunk the droid with his ship or dismantled it.

the problem with this narrative is this depicts 2 different characters. The last Jedi Master going to seek more knowledge in the Jedi temples makes sense. However, this implies he seeks further knowledge because he wants to redeem his mistake which is raising Kylo Ren. It could be finding a way to bring him back to the light, searching for new insight, etc. The point is these are not the actions of a man who is suicidal or looking to die.

You are also mixing up the narrative between TFA and TLJ. It’s not revealed that Luke attempted to kill his nephew in his sleep, that he is looking to die, or that he thinks the Jedi should end until TLJ. TFA is a mystery of where did Luke go and what is he doing despite the galaxy being in peril.

That’s why it feels like a 180 when Luke throws the saber away and is just living and roaming as a hermit In TLJ. This is a guy who dove head first to confront Vader when he wasn’t ready to save his friends but here he is trolling Rey despite even more wanton death. The striking Ben in his sleep is also a reverse of his development in RotJ and is a slap to the fans.

I would say TLJ is more than a speed bump. TLJ cut every single narrative plot line Abrams had set in TFA with nothing to work with.
1) Luke - dead and a non factor.
2) Snoke - dead and a non factor.
3) Rey backstory - she is a nobody.
4) kylo v Rey - it’s 0 - 2 for Rey and she isn’t losing in the final battle.

the finale of TLJ was setup as the resistance vs the First order with Kylo in charge with the final conflict being Kylo vs Rey with Rey winning.
 
I am confused right now since there is actual debate happening with some good thoughts and points about what we saw on film. I am not sure what to think since there have been no screenshots of a book with quotes from a producer or cut an pasted quotes from LFL or Rian.....
Carry on, I am enjoying this thread now.
 
After TFA I guessed maybe Luke was searching for some knowledge that the first Jedi temple contained. Perhaps in search of a way to bring Ben back to the light. Perhaps he was searching for a weapon to try and defeat Snoke, or find some sort of weakness to exploit so that Leia and the Republic could gain the upper hand and overthrow the First Order.

As for why Luke didn't tell anyone, perhaps what he sought was so dangerous that he didn't want to risk it falling into the wrong hands, or putting his friends at risk by exposure? Plus what's to say he could have left that island? Maybe his ship crashed and we was stuck there with no way of leaving? It would have explained his absence from returning to the fight other than abandoning everyone.

There were some interesting questions that lingered at the end of that movie. While we all know that those mysteries were only there to elicit an emotional reaction with no intention with ever paying them off, if handled with some thought it could have made for some interesting directions the story could have gone.
 
After TFA I guessed maybe Luke was searching for some knowledge that the first Jedi temple contained. Perhaps in search of a way to bring Ben back to the light. Perhaps he was searching for a weapon to try and defeat Snoke, or find some sort of weakness to exploit so that Leia and the Republic could gain the upper hand and overthrow the First Order.

As for why Luke didn't tell anyone, perhaps what he sought was so dangerous that he didn't want to risk it falling into the wrong hands, or putting his friends at risk by exposure? Plus what's to say he could have left that island? Maybe his ship crashed and we was stuck there with no way of leaving? It would have explained his absence from returning to the fight other than abandoning everyone.

There were some interesting questions that lingered at the end of that movie. While we all know that those mysteries were only there to elicit an emotional reaction with no intention with ever paying them off, if handled with some thought it could have made for some interesting directions the story could have gone.
Han said about Luke, "People that knew him best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple."

Why would the people who knew Luke best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple? He must've made it known he was interested in finding it. Why was he interested in finding it then? Much like how Maz got the Graflex, that question is never answered. It's a setup without a payoff. Not something you'd expect from a supposed planned out trilogy.
Because they needed to find him for the story to happen.
Basically. Just another example of lazy, incohesive filmmaking that's become too common these days.
 
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Han said about Luke, "People that knew him best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple."

Why would the people who knew Luke best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple? He must've made it known he was interested in finding it. Why was he interested in finding it then? That question is never answered. Much like how Maz got the Graflex, it's a setup without a payoff. Not something you'd expect from a supposed planned out trilogy.

Basically. Just another example of lazy, incohesive filmmaking that's become too common these days.

I agree with you. I'm just recounting what ideas came to my mind after I saw TFA in 2015 and early 2016 as to what direction they might take it. As well as showing that even with that rocky start there was at least the potential for some interesting developments.
 
I agree with you. I'm just recounting what ideas came to my mind after I saw TFA in 2015 and early 2016 as to what direction they might take it. As well as showing that even with that rocky start there was at least the potential for some interesting developments.
Oh for sure. I was just following up your thoughts with another reason as to why we the audience were left with the impression that Luke had some kind of objective in going to Ahch-to other than to not be found.
 
They knew that Luke was looking for old Jedi temples. The map was a map of Jedi Temples. Luke removed the part of the map with the earliest temples as a way to hide the temples, and himself, from the First Order. It was saved on a thumbdrive which was hidden on Jakku until Leia sent Poe to get it. Leia, and therefore the Resistance knew the significance of the portion of the map with the most ancient Jedi temples. So rather than telling people "It's a map to an old temple," Poe simplified his explanation to "It's a map to Luke Skywalker." It's a little more likely that someone would react positively to that name than to finding old ruins.
It doesn't have to be a big mystery.


The Clone Wars series has pretty much replaced Episodes 1 and 2 in my head. I haven't watched either one of them in years, but I'll put on some TCW to see characters that I actually like watching. I like watching them because they were developed in the cartoon in a way they couldn't do in 4 hours of movie.
Nope, Luke did not do that. Lor San Tekka found the portion of the map he gave to Poe. Artoo's portion Luke did not know about. Artoo downloaded it while he was on the Death Star.
 
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