Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker?

  • Total voters
    415
Ron said:
How about chase his nephew down and redeem him like he did Vader? He's worried about furthering his journey to the dark side you say but how come he wasn't worried about that when he entered the hut while Ben was asleep? In all Luke's years post ROTJ, he hasn't learned not to provoke someone teetering on the edge of the dark side like he was by the Emperor? Why'd he even take his lightsaber in there with him? You say he was frightened of losing the ones he loves. Does he not love Ben-his own nephew? Why was there no impulse to save him?

C'mon, you know this doesn't jive at all.
Click to expand...

Chase him down and redeem him? Sounds good and paper. But it's not like he can go to Ben and flip a switch. So how exactly is going to do that? And oh wait, that's what Luke did in TLJ in the end. He confronted his nephew, in such a fashion, so he can't do any physical harm to Ben. And Ben can't do any harm to Luke.

Luke had no idea how far Ben was, until he looked inside. It's not like he would have been able to tell. The Dark Side clouds, and obscures.

He took his lightsaber, because that's a part of a Jedi's uniform. I'm sure if he had known how bad things would have been, he would have left that behind.
 
Axlotl said:
That doesn't answer my question at all.
If a jedi can't kill a sith without becoming a sith themself, then why do the jedi even exist?
Seems to me the whole jedi order is nothing but a sith factory, then.
And if the jedi don't have the authority to be judge, jury, and executioner, then why carry lightsabers?
What is their job? Why do they exist?
Are they supposed to sit on their hands or twiddle their thumbs while evil people have their way with the galaxy?
THEN WHY EVEN HAVE JEDI???
By your logic Luke was the villain in ANH.
He blew up the Death Star, killing thousands of people - many of whom were probably sitting!
Click to expand...

I never said a Jedi can't kill a Sith without becoming a Sith. Obi-Wan killed Maul, that was justified. However Anakin killed Dooku, that was not justified. It's how the act is committed, not the act.

The killing of an old man, who is asking to be killed, while he sits on his throne, no matter how evil. Is not a justified killing. I mean good grief, Palpatine even says that if Luke kills him out of anger, his journey towards the Dark Side will be complete.

Why do Jedi carry lightsabers? For defense of others. Jedi are guardians of peace and justice. Killing, unless forced too, is not justice.
 
d_jedi1 said:
that's obviously not true.
if it were, we'd never fight wars at all.
It wouldn't be called "Star Wars" it'd be "Star roll over and take it from the empire".
Killing shouldn't be the FIRST resort, it should be the last... but it's always on the list.
"Aggressive negotiations"
taking decisive action against a foe when you know that you have a chance to curb their advance.
We can argue all day about dropping "the bombs" on Japan and whether or not it was really needed but it halted the war.

We all know a guy who managed to get himself into a fight and decided to go after the biggest guy and just obliterated that dude... and then NOBODY wanted to fight anymore. He threw the "one-hitter-quitter".
So while it's not the ideal answer, sometimes it's the ONLY answer.
Click to expand...
I agree, killing is a last resort. And in war certain exceptions must be made.

But the act of Luke trying to kill the Emperor. When the Emperor is trying to get Luke to him, is another thing altogether.
 
Joek3rr said:
I agree, killing is a last resort. And in war certain exceptions must be made.

But the act of Luke trying to kill the Emperor. When the Emperor is trying to get Luke to him, is another thing altogether.
Click to expand...
Is it though? "your fleet is lost and your friends on the sanctuary moon..."
from where Luke stood, the whole plan was falling apart.
He went there with a specific plan and at that moment, it likely looked (to him) like lopping off the Emperor's head might be the fastest way to end the conflict.
Frankly, he might have been right.
 
d_jedi1 said:
Is it though? "your fleet is lost and your friends on the sanctuary moon..."
from where Luke stood, the whole plan was falling apart.
He went there with a specific plan and at that moment, it likely looked (to him) like lopping off the Emperor's head might be the fastest way to end the conflict.
Frankly, he might have been right.
Click to expand...

The only it could possibly work. Is if Luke could have killed the Emperor completely free of fear, anger, and hate. If not and Luke would have killed the Emperor. Then Luke would have fallen to the Dark Side. And the Rebels would have been destroyed. The very people he would have wanted to save, he would have ensured their destruction.

"Good. I can feel your anger. I am
defenseless. Take your weapon!
Strike me down with all your
hatred, and your journey towards
the dark side will be complete."
 
Joek3rr said:
The only it could possibly work. Is if Luke could have killed the Emperor completely free of fear, anger, and hate. If not and Luke would have killed the Emperor. Then Luke would have fallen to the Dark Side. And the Rebels would have been destroyed. The very people he would have wanted to save, he would have ensured their destruction.

"Good. I can feel your anger. I am
defenseless. Take your weapon!
Strike me down with all your
hatred, and your journey towards
the dark side will be complete."
Click to expand...
Yeah, Palpatine makes that claim but two things...
1: qualifier "all of your hatred" if he's angry, he's fine.. if he uses his hatred he's boned.
2: are you seriously trying to say that topping Space-Hitler would be a BAD thing? That it would make YOU the new Space Hitler?
Like the old lady says "That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!!"

While it's true that Killing the Emperor outright almost certainly wouldn't have led to Vader's redemption in any form, and Luke would likely have had to deal with him as well, it almost certainly WOULD have ended the conflict WITH Luke's integrity intact.
 
d_jedi1 said:
Yeah, Palpatine makes that claim but two things...
1: qualifier "all of your hatred" if he's angry, he's fine.. if he uses his hatred he's boned.
2: are you seriously trying to say that topping Space-Hitler would be a BAD thing? That it would make YOU the new Space Hitler?
Like the old lady says "That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!!"

While it's true that Killing the Emperor outright almost certainly wouldn't have led to Vader's redemption in any form, and Luke would likely have had to deal with him as well, it almost certainly WOULD have ended the conflict WITH Luke's integrity intact.
Click to expand...

You do the math. Is replacing evil for another evil a good thing?

Luke's integrity would not be intact. Luke is filled with rage. Killing the Emperor would result in Luke's fall to the Dark Side.
------
Your fleet has lost. And your
friends on the Endor moon will not
survive. There is no escape, my
young apprentice. The Alliance will
die...as will your friends.

Luke's eyes are full of rage. Vader watches him.

EMPEROR (CONT’D)

Good. I can feel your anger. I am
defenseless. Take your weapon!
Strike me down with all your
hatred, and your journey towards
the dark side will be complete.

Luke can resist no longer. The lightsaber flies into his
hand. He ignites it in an instant and swings at the Emperor.
Vader's lightsaber flashes into view, blocking Luke's blow
before it can reach the Emperor. The two blades spark at
contact. Luke turns to fight his father.
 
DARTH ANIBAL said:
Actually, I see plenty of people keeping the thread alive, and using this thread to continue complaining about TLJ. If that topic is still open, please, by all means, I wish that stuff would be kept over there.
Click to expand...
Since both the creation of this movie and the events that unfold in its “story” were directly effected by Rian’s choices in TLJ, why is it inappropriate to discuss them here? Especially from an angle of trying to discuss and understand what went wrong? The trilogy is done yo, for better or worse, this smoldering wreck is what it is
Can’t really be angry at the forensic team just doing what they do
 
Joek3rr said:
Fear, anger, aggression, hate. These are the Dark Side. Had Luke given into these, his fall would be complete. Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker would have become.
Click to expand...
But....

Luke DID "give in to these".

He consciously decided to hail his saber, ignite it, and strike at the emporer with what can only be the intent to kill him.

Yet, he did not fall to the dark side.

So, he literally had to succeed in the attempt? The decision to do so wasn't enough?


And while the end doesn't necessarily justify the means - sometimes it REQUIRES the means.

Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon both say "I shall do what I must".
 
Axlotl said:
So if Luke had killed the emperor with hate then Luke would have no other choice but to sit in the emperor's throne, assume command of the empire, order the deaths of his best friends, and rule the galaxy with an iron fist, blowing up entire planets with his new Death Star.

Got it.
Click to expand...
No. It would be his choice.

Anakin Skywalker fell to the Dark Side to save his wife Padmé. Yet, he choked his wife, carrying their unborn children. Anakin Skywalker killed his wife.

So what would Luke done had he fallen?
 
Axlotl said:
So if Luke had killed the emperor with hate then Luke would have no other choice but to sit in the emperor's throne, assume command of the empire, order the deaths of his best friends, and rule the galaxy with an iron fist, blowing up entire planets with his new Death Star.

Got it.
Click to expand...
No. It would be his choice.

Anakin Skywalker fell to the Dark Side to save his wife Padmé. Yet, he choked his wife, carrying their unborn children. Anakin
jhazard said:
But....

Luke DID "give in to these".

He consciously decided to hail his saber, ignite it, and strike at the emporer with what can only be the intent to kill him.

Yet, he did not fall to the dark side.

So, he literally had to succeed in the attempt? The decision to do so wasn't enough?


And while the end doesn't necessarily justify the means - sometimes it REQUIRES the means.

Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon both say "I shall do what I must".
Click to expand...

If we take the Emperor's words literally. Luke would have had to kill him.
 
Joek3rr said:
No. It would be his choice.

Anakin Skywalker fell to the Dark Side to save his wife Padmé. Yet, he choked his wife, carrying their unborn children. Anakin


If we take the Emperor's words literally. Luke would have had to kill him.
Click to expand...
IF we take Palpatine at his word.
It's like an addict.. it takes a daily and perhaps hourly choice to stay off the sauce but it's doable, even if you've been down that dark road for some time.
"Forever will it dominate your destiny"
Yeah, like an addict battling addiction. You might beat that addiction and have a relapse here or there but the severity and frequency/liklihood of those relapses is likely to be determined by the level of your addiction.
One slip-up because you're being needled by two jerks who have you in an impossible situation?
PROBABLY not gonna have that big of a ripple effect.
I don't see too many people who TRIED weed once and never touched it again still struggling with addiction.
just saying.
 
d_jedi1 said:
IF we take Palpatine at his word.
It's like an addict.. it takes a daily and perhaps hourly choice to stay off the sauce but it's doable, even if you've been down that dark road for some time.
"Forever will it dominate your destiny"
Yeah, like an addict battling addiction. You might beat that addiction and have a relapse here or there but the severity and frequency/liklihood of those relapses is likely to be determined by the level of your addiction.
One slip-up because you're being needled by two jerks who have you in an impossible situation?
PROBABLY not gonna have that big of a ripple effect.
I don't see too many people who TRIED weed once and never touched it again still struggling with addiction.
just saying.
Click to expand...

But this isn't one time. This isn't even Luke's first time. "Your journey will be complete." Killing the Emperor or his father would be Luke's final act in his journey towards the Dark Side. A journey which I believe he started in ESB.
 
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