Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[Joek3rr]

It’s actually this viewpoint that kind of salvaged the opening of ROTJ for me, at least from a logical perspective. I mean, at first it seems like just an overly-convoluted scheme to get Han back, but when you think about it as Luke trying to approach it as diplomatically and peacefully as possible (like a Jedi would), it makes a lot more sense. He only resorts to violence when all other options have been exhausted.

I gotta disagree with there. There's nothing diplomatic or peaceful about Luke's actions.
Let his actions and words speak for themselves. He Force chokes two guards, a Dark Side act. He tries to shoot Jabba when the mind trick failed. He tells him "You should have bargained. That's the last mistake you'll ever make." "Jabba. Free us or die."

Luke's actions are so un-Jedi like.

 

[Axlotl]

But not before first trying cut off the Emperor's head. An act which would complete his journey toward the Dark Side.

So if a jedi knight kills a sith lord - who has been responsible for the death and suffering of millions of innocent people - in order to prevent the further death and suffering of millions more innocent people, that jedi is not a hero, but is actually evil.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying that.

Now can you explain to me what jedi even exist for, or why they carry lethal weapons? Thanks.

 

[HMSwolfe]

I gotta disagree with there. There's nothing diplomatic or peaceful about Luke's actions.
Let his actions and words speak for themselves. He Force chokes two guards, a Dark Side act. He tries to shoot Jabba when the mind trick failed. He tells him "You should have bargained. That's the last mistake you'll ever make." "Jabba. Free us or die."

Luke's actions are so un-Jedi like.

Your viewpoint of a Jedi, then, is as skewed as the portrayal of Jedi in the prequels. You conveniently ignore the several previous attempts before he arrives, such as sending Lando in, sending the droids, sending Leia. All of those are different ploys to avoid storming in and cutting everyone down with a lightsaber. Even when he gets there, he doesn’t just whip out his lightsaber and say, “Give me Han and the others, or I’ll kill everyone here.”

Also, your profile picture is literally a screenshot of Luke on Jabba’s barge, probably about to cut some dude down.

 

[BlandoCalrssian]

then deliberately goes to the bedside of his sleeping nephew to murder him.

***** ******, is that when you had your bathroom break? Thats not even remotely what happened. I can understand that some disagree with Lukes character but at least make your arguments based on what actually was in the movie, dont just make **** up.

 

[Mr Webber]

That's news to me.

EDIT: I read up on it, ****** on a bike some people *inseet stuff that would be censored here*.

I know right. Where is the mainstream and access media reporting about what these weirdos have done to the cast and what they did recently to Abrams? Answer : Nowhere. A pestilence descended upon Star Wars on the 13th December 2017.

Interesting that this thread is being kept alive by one person bringing up the same failed defences of TJL that were covered in its thread spanning over two years.

Hey Disney

 

[azheat]

Well said Analyzer and Timmythekid

........Luke ghost catching the light saber as well as raising Red 5 was dumb.

Agreed.....and aside from JJ saying, "Wouldn't it be totally awesome and unexpected if we completely copy a scene from ESB", it's pretty cool that Luke's X-Wing could fly without an entire piece of one of its wing. I guess Rey used the force to keep it up? Or did the cool montage scene with her and Luke fixing it against the sound of some cheesy music hit the cutting room floor? We'd be lucky if this was the worst of the unexplained nonsense from this movie..........

-Force pickpocket. This has just gotten out of control stupid. "That's not how the Force works!" indeed. So much stupid Force nonsense has piled up over the last two films that it feels like there are now no limits, no cost, and therefore no consequences to anything, and nothing matters.

Agreed. Teleporting a physical object, just seemed like lazy writing. And yes, my inner child still believes in the Force and the ability to say, lift a heavy object; but this was just dumb.

And I can live with Force healing, but couldn't they have introduced it in a more powerful or profoundly emotional scene? Like maybe Poe, or Finn, or Chewie were injured and needed help, and not on some desert snake no one cares about? And I don't buy into the "She did it to save their lives". She could have Force choked the s**t out of that thing or tied it into a balloon animal knot for all we cared.

-Rey Skywalker. Rey takes everything from Luke in this movie. She steals his ride, his bucket, his saber, his childhood home (which has no relevance to her so....?), and his name. Get the Force outta here with that. You earned none of this.

Yup, as I mentioned earlier, this is the only Star Wars movie I've ever been to where audiences boo'd. Still kills me to think that's the experience I had of this saga ending.

- Hyperspace skipping. Heck, ANYTHING to do with hyperspace. JJ clearly doesn't like the idea of travelling anywhere taking any time at all. He did it in ST, and he's done it in both of his SW's. We've seen that hyperspace still takes time - hours? Days maybe? Unclear, but it's not instant. Travelling through hyperspace also takes time to calculate. The way I hear it, without precise calculations you could fly through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova, and those calculations take time. No? You just throw the switch again and again as fast as you can now and jump from the surface of a planet, or inside a ships' hangar? Sigh.. Okay, fine I guess.

I felt the idea of this was a complete and unoriginal rip off of the GOTG 2 "700 Jumps" scene. The only thing missing were the facial distortions, which I wouldn't be surprised if JJ wanted to do but someone pulled him aside and whispered, "Hey little buddy, can I talk to you for a minute........"

 

[ConvergencePro]

The Disney StarWars Sequel Trilogy in a nutshell...

 

[BTTUK]

Nothing like comparing a film series to real people burning to death...

 

[CT1138]

Agreed.....and aside from JJ saying, "Wouldn't it be totally awesome and unexpected if we completely copy a scene from ESB", it's pretty cool that Luke's X-Wing could fly without an entire piece of one of its wing. I guess Rey used the force to keep it up? Or did the cool montage scene with her and Luke fixing it against the sound of some cheesy music hit the cutting room floor? We'd be lucky if this was the worst of the unexplained nonsense from this movie..........

View attachment 1249089

You do realize that doorway is shorter than the average human male, right? That's only one small metal covering of the wing, which itself is very large.

Though, speaking of that pic... a thought crossed my mind the other night: has anybody done a run of Old Man Luke walking sticks?

 

[ConvergencePro]

Nothing like comparing a film series to real people burning to death...

So I guess I shouldn't compare it to going down like the Titanic then either, huh. That one's pretty accurate too

 

[jhazard]

I gotta disagree with there. There's nothing diplomatic or peaceful about Luke's actions.
Let his actions and words speak for themselves. He Force chokes two guards, a Dark Side act. He tries to shoot Jabba when the mind trick failed. He tells him "You should have bargained. That's the last mistake you'll ever make." "Jabba. Free us or die."

Luke's actions are so un-Jedi like.

I dunno... It's not like Luke was walking into a church, School or monestary. He was going in to the center of the criminal underworld, filled with, you know - criminals. Criminals who were holding his friend hostage and (albeit unknown to Luke at the moment) enslaved his sister. Was he just supposed to arm wrestle his way in? He wasn't dealing with a foreign nation or government, he was dealing with thieves and thugs.

At the time, I think the force was just the force, you know? Yeah, there was the dark side/light side, but I don't think at the time - there were "dark side only" tricks like we have now.

 

[d_jedi1]

But then again, you're not dealing with the Force or the Dark Side. And who's to say what your initial reaction would be. Sure after you got over shock of what you saw.

You don't kill one loved one to save another Someone should have told that to Luke in ROTJ......

Perhaps he should have said "usually"
because you're clearly conflating what actually transpired in ROTJ to defend a crappy movie.
Luke is hiding in the shadows, realizing that he's taken missteps and (in a deleted scene) thrown his lightsaber aside.. the saber is currently clipped to vader's belt and visible there.
Vader hunts for Luke, taunting him and then Luke's fears and doubts spill from behind his defenses "A sister"
"If you will not be turned, then perhaps she will."
The implication is clear, maybe we CAN'T turn you to the dark side.. Maybe the light is SO entrenched in you that it absolutely cannot be overturned.
No matter, we'll just kill you and turn her WHO HAS HAD ZERO TRAINING AND KNOWS BASICALLY NOTHING ABOUT THE LIGHT.
Leia would have had basically no defense against their tag-team antics and Luke knows it.
In that moment, he pulls his saber off of Vader's belt via the force screaming "NEVER!" and launches an assault that catches Vader off-guard.
This wasn't JUST a defense of her but of the entire galaxy. He had to do it instead of letting them drag it further into darkness and while he might have briefly dipped into darkness himself, AT THAT MOMENT it was fully justified.

A sleeping nephew and a force vision are ABSOLUTELY not the same thing.
Not even close.

 

[DARTH ANIBAL]

Interesting that this thread is being kept alive by one person bringing up the same failed defences of TJL that were covered in its thread spanning over two years.

Actually, I see plenty of people keeping the thread alive, and using this thread to continue complaining about TLJ. If that topic is still open, please, by all means, I wish that stuff would be kept over there.

 

[Axlotl]

I see a lot of people talking about Return of the Jedi in here, too.
Let's try to keep that stuff confined to the ROTJ thread, okay guys.

 

[Joek3rr]

So if a jedi knight kills a sith lord - who has been responsible for the death and suffering of millions of innocent people - in order to prevent the further death and suffering of millions more innocent people, that jedi is not a hero, but is actually evil.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying that.

Now can you explain to me what jedi even exist for, or why they carry lethal weapons? Thanks.

It is one thing to kill a Sith in combat. It is entirely different thing to kill him while he sits idle. Who gives the Jedi right to be judge, jury and executioner? To borrow a quote from another franchise I love. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement." - Gandalf

Let me completely clear, the ends never justify the means.

 

[Joek3rr]

Your viewpoint of a Jedi, then, is as skewed as the portrayal of Jedi in the prequels. You conveniently ignore the several previous attempts before he arrives, such as sending Lando in, sending the droids, sending Leia. All of those are different ploys to avoid storming in and cutting everyone down with a lightsaber. Even when he gets there, he doesn’t just whip out his lightsaber and say, “Give me Han and the others, or I’ll kill everyone here.”

Also, your profile picture is literally a screenshot of Luke on Jabba’s barge, probably about to cut some dude down.

He's sending his forces in, ala Trojan Horse.

Actually my profile pic, is a promotional photo. I like Luke, and I think he looks bad a** in it.

 

[Joek3rr]

I dunno... It's not like Luke was walking into a church, School or monestary. He was going in to the center of the criminal underworld, filled with, you know - criminals. Criminals who were holding his friend hostage and (albeit unknown to Luke at the moment) enslaved his sister. Was he just supposed to arm wrestle his way in? He wasn't dealing with a foreign nation or government, he was dealing with thieves and thugs.

At the time, I think the force was just the force, you know? Yeah, there was the dark side/light side, but I don't think at the time - there were "dark side only" tricks like we have now.

Perhaps he should have said "usually"
because you're clearly conflating what actually transpired in ROTJ to defend a crappy movie.
Luke is hiding in the shadows, realizing that he's taken missteps and (in a deleted scene) thrown his lightsaber aside.. the saber is currently clipped to vader's belt and visible there.
Vader hunts for Luke, taunting him and then Luke's fears and doubts spill from behind his defenses "A sister"
"If you will not be turned, then perhaps she will."
The implication is clear, maybe we CAN'T turn you to the dark side.. Maybe the light is SO entrenched in you that it absolutely cannot be overturned.
No matter, we'll just kill you and turn her WHO HAS HAD ZERO TRAINING AND KNOWS BASICALLY NOTHING ABOUT THE LIGHT.
Leia would have had basically no defense against their tag-team antics and Luke knows it.
In that moment, he pulls his saber off of Vader's belt via the force screaming "NEVER!" and launches an assault that catches Vader off-guard.
This wasn't JUST a defense of her but of the entire galaxy. He had to do it instead of letting them drag it further into darkness and while he might have briefly dipped into darkness himself, AT THAT MOMENT it was fully justified.

A sleeping nephew and a force vision are ABSOLUTELY not the same thing.
Not even close.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record. The ends never ever justify the means. If they do, then our heroes become no better the "bad guys" they are fighting.

 

[Ron]

The fault is with him. He is the fault. And what can he do now, but make things worse? Chase his nephew down and kill him? Let his his nephew kill him, furthering his journey in the Dark Side? That's what he's afraid of the most. That his return will simply be like pouring gasoline on a fire.

In the end Luke does the only thing he can do. Apologize, and let Ben expend his anger at his image, and take away from Ben what he wants most, to kill his uncle.

How about chase his nephew down and redeem him like he did Vader? He's worried about furthering his journey to the dark side you say but how come he wasn't worried about that when he entered the hut while Ben was asleep? In all Luke's years post ROTJ, he hasn't learned not to provoke someone teetering on the edge of the dark side like he was by the Emperor? Why'd he even take his lightsaber in there with him? You say he was frightened of losing the ones he loves. Does he not love Ben-his own nephew? Why was there no impulse to save him?

C'mon, you know this doesn't jive at all.

 

[d_jedi1]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record. The ends never ever justify the means. If they do, then our heroes become no better the "bad guys" they are fighting.

that's obviously not true.
if it were, we'd never fight wars at all.
It wouldn't be called "Star Wars" it'd be "Star roll over and take it from the empire".
Killing shouldn't be the FIRST resort, it should be the last... but it's always on the list.
"Aggressive negotiations"
taking decisive action against a foe when you know that you have a chance to curb their advance.
We can argue all day about dropping "the bombs" on Japan and whether or not it was really needed but it halted the war.

We all know a guy who managed to get himself into a fight and decided to go after the biggest guy and just obliterated that dude... and then NOBODY wanted to fight anymore. He threw the "one-hitter-quitter".
So while it's not the ideal answer, sometimes it's the ONLY answer.

 

[Axlotl]

It is one thing to kill a Sith in combat. It is entirely different thing to kill him while he sits idle. Who gives the Jedi right to be judge, jury and executioner? To borrow a quote from another franchise I love. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement." - Gandalf

Let me completely clear, the ends never justify the means.

That doesn't answer my question at all.
If a jedi can't kill a sith without becoming a sith themself, then why do the jedi even exist?
Seems to me the whole jedi order is nothing but a sith factory, then.
And if the jedi don't have the authority to be judge, jury, and executioner, then why carry lightsabers?
What is their job? Why do they exist?
Are they supposed to sit on their hands or twiddle their thumbs while evil people have their way with the galaxy?
THEN WHY EVEN HAVE JEDI???
By your logic Luke was the villain in ANH.
He blew up the Death Star, killing thousands of people - many of whom were probably sitting!