gedmac66
Sr Member
Nah mate, that’s just wishful thinking - unfortunately.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
Nah mate, that’s just wishful thinking - unfortunately.
But there's the thing, the Jedi didn't mis-interpret it, they simply misunderstood what it entailed. He did bring balance, he did destroy the Sith (until JJ decided to erase that part), thereby completely fulfilling the prophecy. I could've lived with it, if Anakin had made an actual appearance and had an effect on this film, beyond a simple voice cameo.
I generally treat what George Lucas says with a pinch of salt, due to contradicting himself alot. However in this instance, he has always been consistent. Anakin is the Chosen One. One of the points of the PT was to highlight that, and link it to his sacrifice in RoTJ. I admire that you're trying to find workarounds to it, but it has been explicit for over 2 decades now.
TRoS simply takes it, and reduces the entire impact of that and in my opinion, works against the idea of the film actually tying it all together, by taking what essentially was a complete story arc, and crowbarring it open, just to add a character they hoped would make more fans happy than not. Who they then killed off in an even more ridiculous way than over a handrail, by having him be smart enough to survive that, but dumb enough by essentially having him electrocute himself until he died (having never learned from his Mace Windu fight)
HeartBlade
Sr Member
The thing is the saber is the impetus that leads Rey to be a Jedi. This has never occurred in the past (Luke didn’t find Anakin’s saber in Obi Wans house cause it called out to him, his own son). And the same Jedi order that refused to train Anakin because he was too old is ok with older Sith-related Rey Palpatine?
Sure, I guess the visions can be explained as because of the dyad. Holding the lightsaber triggered the connection between them or Snoke just timed it right maybe. What gets me now is why didn’t Kylo get stronger from the dyad? Why can’t he force lightning and always lose to Rey when they are supposed to be equal?
Again, this is stupid plan then. Luke will be the equal to Kylo Ren. That means hunting Luke is useless because Kylo can’t beat him, being equal. Meanwhile, Luke also can’t beat him because they are equal. Why confront an enemy you can’t beat when doing so gets in the way of your mission (conquering the galaxy).
I’m not saying send out all the ships or reveal himself. Send out a portion to further augment the First Order. Snoke can just tell his men I got a secret factory. Imagine if in TLJ, while the remaining forces floated away, a star destroyer pops up in front on them from light speed? Check mate.
Yeah I thinking I’m giving up at this point. The lore has been trashed anyway. The prophecy can only mean 2 things now:
1) there will always be Sith and a new one will arrive to bring balance again.
2) the prophecy is a lie
HeartBlade
Sr Member
let’s put it this way. Aliens and humans enter a war of survival, a war for each other’s resources.
the aliens win and humanity is now extinct. However, the alien leader says the humans fought a good fight and died with bravery. From now on, we are no longer aliens but humans.
did humans win the war? I guess from a certain point of view we did.
ConvergencePro
Master Member
I have to agree unfortunately..
I know I’m probably going to catch hell for this, lol
I really like The Mandalorian, I think it’s fun and refreshing, feels like classic SW to me in a lot of ways... (something the ST never did)
but if I’m going to call out all the writing issues in the ST I have to hold this show to the same standard, and there’s just WAY too much of character’s doing stupid things that are completely contradictory to the information they have at hand... and it’s the one thing that drives me crazy in what would otherwise be a pretty amazing and timeless show.
I still enjoy the hell out of it.. It’s not quite enough to fully break my immersion in the world and events... but BOY does this show ride that line hard at times. Some episodes are leagues better than others, but I’m hoping now that the show’s established they can sure up the ******** a little in S2 and characters start acting intelligent full-time. I’m already giving a pass to 3-4 episodes of an 8 episode first season being basically filler episodes
Last edited:
Learned something new, very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
My points exactly brother
Joek3rr
Master Member
But the Force has all different ways of getting things done. Look how Qui-Gon, just happens to be on a ship that gets damaged, has to land on Tatooine, near Mos Espa, where the Chosen One lives. Or look how the two droids just happen to get captured by the same Jawas, and just happen to make their next stop the Lars' homestead.
I would say he did get stronger. I mean his fighting style alone, starts to look like Rey's.
It's not a stupid plan, there's always a chance to tip the balance of the Force. Palpatine did it once before.
Palpatine wouldn't have sent ships, for the same reason Tarkin didn't come out of hyperspace with clear target of Yavin 4. That wouldn't be very fun story if our heroes got blasted away.
The prophecy wasn't a lie. Its results just weren't permanent.
cboath
Master Member
Seriously? You don't understand innate ability (which likely shows up from birth) vs it suddenly materializing out of nowhere right when you're about to have to fight Kylo (either metaphoically or physically)?
Baby Yoda is also 50 years old. He may not know where it comes from but i'd wager he's had to time to work a bit on it in 50 years. And in 50 years, who's to say he doesn't know of it or didn't receive some training before becoming separated?
cboath
Master Member
I mean, come on, the sith is basically a religion - like jedi. Luke never got a full training as a jedi (that we know of), Rey has spent a day with Luke. There are no more jedi, so short of Ghost Luke spending a few years to impart his knowledge, which seemingly has to be imparted by other force ghosts, Rey has to rebuild the jedi from the ground up using those books.
Bringing balance, as in the prophecy, would never be a permanent scenario. While not in film, there are likely sith artifacts, holocrons, books, other recordings, etc out there. Someone finds them learns from them who happens to be force sensitive and the Sith are back.
Sure, palpatine came back which kinda kills the balance part, but he didn't have enough power to leave that temple until he sucked the juice from rey and kylo.
But there's no way to think the Sith would be extinct forever once palpatine was thrown down the shaft.
Kovnyn
Sr Member
The return of the Sith was a constant in the EU. Palps returned in a cloned body. Lumiya appears out of nowhere, but was trained by Vader. Jacen Solo becomes Darth Caedus. Abeloth. The Lost Tribe of the Sith, etc.
The Chosen One prophecy was a joke in the post-ROTJ EU, just as it is in Disney canon.
It's like the Prophecy in Harry Potter. Voldemort wasn't certain who it referred to, either Harry or Neville. Both of them fit the description, and likely more children could have been the one spoken of. The difference is that the Harry Potter Prophecy came true, Harry destroyed Voldemort (which he couldn't have done without Neville) where as the SW prophecy was never fully realized, with any permanence.
Yoda admits the prophecy could have been misinterpreted.
ETA: I wonder, with Anakins arrogance, if he had not been told he was the chosen one, if things would have turned out differently in the end.
He had such an ego believing he was going to be the most powerful Jedi (which was never stated, just his false beliefs) that he was driven to accumulating power, which was part of his journey to the Dark Side.
The Chosen One prophecy was a joke in the post-ROTJ EU, just as it is in Disney canon.
It's like the Prophecy in Harry Potter. Voldemort wasn't certain who it referred to, either Harry or Neville. Both of them fit the description, and likely more children could have been the one spoken of. The difference is that the Harry Potter Prophecy came true, Harry destroyed Voldemort (which he couldn't have done without Neville) where as the SW prophecy was never fully realized, with any permanence.
Yoda admits the prophecy could have been misinterpreted.
ETA: I wonder, with Anakins arrogance, if he had not been told he was the chosen one, if things would have turned out differently in the end.
He had such an ego believing he was going to be the most powerful Jedi (which was never stated, just his false beliefs) that he was driven to accumulating power, which was part of his journey to the Dark Side.
Last edited:
HMSwolfe
Master Member
I like how everyone is complaining about IX “ruining” Anakin’s story/sacrifice and how the prophecy “doesn’t make sense any more”, when in reality Anakin’s stupid story ruined Luke’s first and took away from the OT telling Luke’s journey by framing it as “three movies about other people just so someone redeems Vader so he can fulfill some prophecy”. I mean, seriously. The whole prophecy thing/the “saga” of Darth Vader was always a dumb way to frame the whole series. The OT should just be viewed as the stories they were originally intended to tell—Luke’s story and his journey to becoming a Jedi. I mean, I can’t believe people made such a big stink over TLJ because it “ruined” their precious Luke Skywalker, but they’re totally fine with the prequels ruining him.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
The EU examples you provided retcon ROTJ, that's very likely why GL kept them in the EU.
Why would the audience believe the Sith were extinct?
Because the original creator of Star Wars reopened his story after many years and spent hundreds of millions of dollars. Not to pick up after ROTJ but to add some context (unnecessary IMO) to those events without undoing them. He made the PT to introduce the prophecy (and Jar Jar!) to the story, and make the actions of Vader/Anakin in ROTJ have MORE meaning (a mystical prophecy rather than "just" a father's love for his son). Personally, I don't think of the PT as part of the saga but if DSW is calling this the conclusion to nine films they ought to approach it with some story consistency.
Difference being two-fold though:
1) The old EU was never strictly official canon anyway, and not part of the film series, so in essence could be (and George said this too) ignored completely.
2) Yes the Sith could return as many times as they wanted to make them return. Difference being that officially having Sith isn't the same as having the one Sith that was supposed to have been killed in RoTJ because of a self sacrifice for a son. Having him back in such a haphazard way, doesn't strike me as anything but fan service that's desperate to please, rather than being a progression of a story.
Kovnyn
Sr Member
It's a difference in perspective and critical thinking. TLJ ruined Luke directly. It was Luke, acting in a way no one expected, that ruined the character. The PT ruined Luke's story indirectly, by retconning the OT and Anakin/Vader with the prophecy BS.
Joek3rr
Master Member
But that's exactly how I see it. Innate abilities, that Rey realizes she has the moment she taps into the Force. And we know that she's known of something in her life guiding her and helping her all this time.
How I see things, is everyone exhibits their innate Force abilities at different times in life, and in different ways. For instance Anakin innate ability was seeing things before they happen, allowing him pilot craft at very young age.
Kovnyn
Sr Member
Yes, the Force is an innate ability, had nothing to due with heredity. Rey felt there was something there, but she never tapped into it until halfway through TFA, at which point she was Obi Wan level strong. That never made sense to me. It's like a kid learning to ride a bike, and then goes and wins back to back Tour de France just after taking off their training wheels. There seemed to be no learning. It just WAS.
The force sensitive children in TCW arc were all showing force sensitivity at a very young age. We don't know when Luke started showing his Force sensitivity, but due to his piloting skills, we can assume he had foresight like his father. But Anakins foresight sucked. Sure, he could pod race, but couldn't foresee much of anything else. A couple prophetic dreams, sure. Galactic war? Nope. Palpatine being the Sith Lord? Nope. Getting his arm hacked off by Dooku? Nope. Order 66? Nope. His foresight ability kinda sucked.
Broom boy could use the force to move stuff with his mind. But if he was anything like Rey, he'd be uber strong.
That was my biggest problem with TROS, was the idea that Rey inherited all the light side of the Force, all the Jedi lived in her, when there are clearly other force sensitive people in the galaxy.
Joek3rr
Master Member
True. But also remember that the Force will seek to balance itself. And in order to do that it will briefly boost a person's power. So when Luke's life is at risk he's able to suddenly pull the lightsaber to his hand. Or again when his life is at risk he suddenly finds the ability to use telepathy.
Bigdaddy
Master Member
I don't remember that being talked about in the films, is that cartoon lore?
Similar threads
