Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[HMSwolfe]

The idea of the Force controlling all things in the galaxy is perhaps the worst thing to come out of Star Wars ever, and that is saying a lot considering how much junk has been thrown in since 1983. Why on earth would anybody watch a movie where the main characters are just puppets to a faceless, formless void; one that inexplicably can control the good guys in order to “right the balance”, but can’t just control the bad guys or stop them from being bad in the first place? It’s the absolute worst basis for a fictional world in the history of all fiction. Characters must be allowed free will and must make their own choices. They must fight their own battles and come to grips with their own defeats. Relying on “the Force” as a be-all, catch-all perfect plot hole plug to fill in every blank that the PT and ST created is terrible, and it’s honestly an inappropriate way to analyze or critique these movies, because there is no narrative if there is no choice. If anyone chooses to continue believing in the “all-powerful force” that controls everything but also conveniently not everything, so be it. But stop bringing it up when we analyze the films from narrative and character perspectives, because it has no place in any discussion like this. This is why I increasingly don’t describe myself as a Star Wars fan—I don’t just like anything that has the words Star Wars on it, and I don’t treat everything that has the words Star Wars on it at face value. I like ANH and ESB as really great films, and ROTJ for being a satisfying conclusion to Luke’s journey, with a few entertaining moments sprinkled in. But I won’t swallow any EU, “George said this/the visual dictionary/glove of Darth Vader books/the Clone Wars said that” garbage and believe that it somehow compares in any way to the simplicity and the brilliance of the OT. To me, none of that junk is Star Wars. It’s a cluttered mess, and it’s why there will never again be any Star Wars media that satisfies a general audience and Star Wars fans, because it’s too stuffed with all these expectations and delusions of what Star Wars is and so much is so far removed from the actual movies. Seriously. It’s a damn disgrace. I shudder to think that when I say the words Darth Vader, some people think of an annoying sidekick from a cartoon that was added on thirty years after the fact, or that Yoda’s indelible scenes from ESB have been horrible thrashed by a CG monstrosity flailing about, and with nonsensical, narrative-destroying concepts of the force as some sort of detached deity. Some of you act like I have to take all of that and accept it as though it’s of the same value and has the same weight.

 

[Jaitea]

Not necessarily. But considering that some of the main characters believe it, means it could very well be real. I mean the guy who doesn't believe this is the scoundrel, the rogue. But some of the most learned people on the Force, believe in it's controlling will.

Plus just look at how the Force is presented in those three films. Pay attention to when the Force theme is played. The first time? Leia giving the Death Star plans to Luke. The second time? Luke looking out at the setting suns on Tatooine. Ask yourself, why is the Force theme being played now?

The Theme was also played in the Throne Room at the end of the film,....I honestly think back then it wasn't meant to be solely for The Force,....It's kind of used as a destiny calling theme for Luke,....and at the end it's loud & brash because they succeeded & fulfilled their destiny.....it's really from the sequels that it was solely used for The Force

J

 

[ConvergencePro]

I said earlier, if it was another big evil that tipped the balance again, then fine. But it wasn't, was it. Which is why I keep banging the drum about Anakin being absent.

You seriously have to wonder what complete pancake brain of a human being at Disney let Rian Johnson kill off Snoke and launch a MK-48 torpedo into the ST like he did... The ship was still largely salvageable after TFA, but not after everything in TLJ, especially where that film literally progressed almost nowhere story/character wise

Were Kylo shown to be remotely a formidable/worthy/competent enemy in TLJ then it might just have worked... but leaving this trilogy with the only remaining bad guy at the end being the same guy who was already soundly defeated multiple times by both our new would-be protagonist and a apparition and who has essentially been reduced to being a complete joke?
lol Good Luck with that!
Sorry JJ, I might not like your filmmaking in general but holy **** were you handed a rubble pile and told to make it float.
I imagine having the same screenwriter for Batman v Superman was super helpful though

So long as them core themes were shoved in our face I guess that’s all that mattered

 

[Mr Webber]

I have to agree unfortunately..
I know I’m probably going to catch hell for this, lol

I really like The Mandalorian, I think it’s fun and refreshing, feels like classic SW to me in a lot of ways... (something the ST never did)
but if I’m going to call out all the writing issues in the ST I have to hold this show to the same standard, and there’s just WAY too much of character’s doing stupid things that are completely contradictory to the information they have at hand... and it’s the one thing that drives me crazy in what would otherwise be a pretty amazing and timeless show.

I still enjoy the hell out of it.. It’s not quite enough to fully break my immersion in the world and events... but BOY does this show ride that line hard at times. Some episodes are leagues better than others, but I’m hoping now that the show’s established they can sure up the ******** a little in S2 and characters start acting intelligent full-time. I’m already giving a pass to 3-4 episodes of an 8 episode first season being basically filler episodes

Oh its not without some major faults but I put that down to it being structured very simply very deliberately as an olive branch as to not offend anyone. You only have to see how even the slightest criticisms of it in its thread were met with very defensive responses because people are tired of the division. They established a great base in S1 and now they can take a few more risks moving forward. There is a chance they can now, having established a solid start fall back into the problems of the movie dept but I`m confident they wont.

 

[Jaitea]

You seriously have to wonder what complete pancake brain of a human being at Disney let Rian Johnson kill off Snoke and launch a MK-48 torpedo into the ST like he did... The ship was still largely salvageable after TFA, but not after everything in TLJ, especially where that film literally progressed almost nowhere story/character wise

Were Kylo shown to be remotely a formidable/worthy/competent enemy in TLJ then it might just have worked... but leaving this trilogy with the only remaining bad guy at the end being the same guy who was already soundly defeated multiple times by both our new would-be protagonist and a apparition and who has essentially been reduced to being a complete joke?
lol Good Luck with that!
Sorry JJ, I might not like your filmmaking in general but holy **** were you handed a rubble pile and told to make it float.
I imagine having the same screenwriter for Batman v Superman was super helpful though

So long as them core themes were shoved in our face I guess that’s all that mattered

Yep,...that's what I can't understand about this thread,...it's obvious that RJ purposefully derailed the plans of JJ & now JJ derails the story that RJ made & we the audience are supposed to think that this was the plan all along.....all the derailing has caused the train-wreck that is The Sequel Trilogy....but back to this thread (& others dealing with Star Wars since The Last Jedi),...its the need to find logic & reasoning for all the illogical & daft things that happen in The Rise of Skywalker.
The Story group are now panicking & are frantically trying to piece this all together because they were likely left out of the writing by JJ & CT.....

Latest is that Palpatine's return was by the cloaked figures who used 'Technology & the occult'.....that's it.....explained

J

 

[JBLAKE]

When does the novelization come out for the rise of skywalker

 

[Kovnyn]

It's in the films. "All is as the Force wills it." The Dark Side has grown stronger. Along comes Anakin to balance this. Palpatine knows this, so he that's why he targets him and turns him. So the Force brings up Luke, who redeems Anakin. Anakin returns to the light, and "kills" Palpatine, knocking the Dark Side back down. And so there is balance. But Palpatine is able to come back. Ben is turned, balance is lost. So the Force brings Palpatine's' granddaughter to bring balance once again.

You know what I also hear from religious zealots in this world? All is as god wills it. Just because a fanatic has the belief, doesn't make it so. Think of all the different world religions, and their prophesies. How many of them came true?


Anakin is the Chosen One to a small group of religious nuts, within a larger religious group. Most weren't convinced. Not even Yoda felt he was the chosen one. Mace Windu didn't. Fact is, it was really only Quo-Gon Jinn who believed Anakin to be the one spoken of in the prophecy. Most of the Council didn't even buy into the prophecy at all. The Jedi, by and large, paid it no mind.

The Jedi perspective of balance was skewed, badly. The PT proves that much.
George Lucas screwed up the primary mythos that made the OT what it was. JJ and Rian continued to screw it up. It's unrecognizable now.

While I enjoy the movies, for the most part, the PT and ST change so much.

Darth Plagueis was the only one to learn how to cheat Death, to keep the ones he cared about from dying. He didn't teach this to Sidious. Ep III made that quite clear. Maybe he figured it out, maybe he came back to fill a plot point because the trilogy was a dumpster fire from the beginning. Ben Solo managed to figure out how to bring Rey back from death. How did he manage to do that?

Over theast 40 years, the Force became a mystical energy field that only a tiny minority could influence and be in influenced by, to the biggest, dumbest Macguffin that can be the excuse for bad writing. Stuck in the story? Use the Force. Need to advance a plot? Use the Force. Massive plot hole that needs filled? Use the Force.

To quote Han, "that's not how the Force works."

 

[Somerset]

On a slight segway - I saw Wonder Woman on Netflix over the weekend and was slightly struck by some parallels in imagery between the final confrontation there and the one in TROS.

Spoiler

 

[Kovnyn]

When does the novelization come out for the rise of skywalker

Just saw March 17.

Jedi News - Broadcasting Star Wars News Across the Galaxy

Your best source for daily Star Wars news; from the High Republic, to Batuu, The Rise of Skywalker, and everything in-between.

www.jedinews.co.uk

 

[Joek3rr]

Except that isn't destiny then. It's just being used as a convenient word and could be said to be superfluous really.

For many of us, that point doesn't hold water as the one that he was supposed to have killed to fulfil that, isn't actually dead and gone. If if he didn't completely die, then Anakin could never have fulfilled it, unless of course it just makes it a relatively pointless arc.

I said earlier, if it was another big evil that tipped the balance again, then fine. But it wasn't, was it. Which is why I keep banging the drum about Anakin being absent.

But his destiny wasn't to kill Palpatine. But to bring balance. Why are we equating bringing balance with death? Sounds like a Sith idea.

 

[BTTUK]

But his destiny wasn't to kill Palpatine. But to bring balance. Why are we equating bringing balance with death? Sounds like a Sith idea.

There you go using the word destiny again. I didn't say it was Anakin's destiny either. Although Vader seemed quite convinced it was his and Luke's destiny to overthrow (kill) the Emperor, which as you tried to argue, must make it real as Vader believes it.

George added the prophecy to attempt to make Anakin and Vader more of a victim rather than a cold blooded murderer. By adding it after the fact, it directly acknowledges that the Emperor had to die, as it had already happened that way. Now that works as an arc, as it had an end point it was working from and towards.

For TRoS plot to happen, it has to completely open that arc back up, and essentially make RoTJ's ending a simple middle section rather than the end of it. That then opens issues that never needed to come back

 

[ConvergencePro]

Just saw March 17.

Jedi News - Broadcasting Star Wars News Across the Galaxy

Your best source for daily Star Wars news; from the High Republic, to Batuu, The Rise of Skywalker, and everything in-between.

www.jedinews.co.uk

Book writer for The Rise Of Skywalker: Ahhhhhhhhh.... ****!... No amount of writing can fix this pit of doom you guys wrote us into, Do you hear how goddamn stupid this sounds?? The Star Destroyers don't know how to go up??? Wait.... you say they ALLLL have Death Star lasers?? When does Ben learn force heal? Why does the knife work like a Goonies medallion? How the hell do you expect us to make this **** sound good?!?! We need a year out at least!!!"

Disney Executive: "You have two months"

 

[Captain Dunsel]

“I want Star Destroyers with frickin’ Death Star Cannons attached to their bellies, OK???”

I apologize to the TROS defenders, but just saying the phrase “Star Destroyers with Death Star Cannons” sounds so obscenely stupid.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Book writer for The Rise Of Skywalker: Ahhhhhhhhh.... ****!... No amount of writing can fix this pit of doom you guys wrote us into, Do you hear how goddamn stupid this sounds?? The Star Destroyers don't know how to go up??? Wait.... you say they ALLLL have Death Star lasers?? When does Ben learn force heal? Why does the knife work like a Goonies medallion? How the hell do you expect us to make this **** sound good?!?! We need a year out at least!!!"

Disney Executive: "You have two months"

It will be released as a coloring book, vs. a full-blown novel, in order to better reach its target audience.

 

[sztriki]

Book writer for The Rise Of Skywalker: Ahhhhhhhhh.... ****!... No amount of writing can fix this pit of doom you guys wrote us into, Do you hear how goddamn stupid this sounds?? The Star Destroyers don't know how to go up??? Wait.... you say they ALLLL have Death Star lasers?? When does Ben learn force heal? Why does the knife work like a Goonies medallion? How the hell do you expect us to make this **** sound good?!?! We need a year out at least!!!"

Disney Executive: "You have two months"

To be fair none of the SW novelizations made ANYTHING sound good, except for Revenge of the Sith.
AFD's novelization of ANH is one of the most cringe-inducing pieces of writing I've read. ROTJ is also a joke.

 

[Kovnyn]

Yeah, the Star Wars novelization was pretty bad. Just read it not long ago. What is a duck?

Though, the scenes with Biggs and Cammie were good, and I wish they were left in the film. Made Tatooine seem a bit less remote, but still a pretty desolate place.

I'm about to start ROTS. See how bad that is, too.

 

[sztriki]

What is a duck?

AAaaaaaargh...that line is like a punch in the face.

 

[edge10]

Yeah, the Star Wars novelization was pretty bad. Just read it not long ago. What is a duck?

Though, the scenes with Biggs and Cammie were good, and I wish they were left in the film. Made Tatooine seem a bit less remote, but still a pretty desolate place.

I'm about to start ROTS. See how bad that is, too.

AAaaaaaargh...that line is like a punch in the face.

Are you referring to 'sitting ducks'?

Would you prefer 'sitting woozle wuzzles'? or 'sitting space ducks'?

 

[Paul Andrew]

Yeah, the Star Wars novelization was pretty bad. Just read it not long ago. What is a duck?

Though, the scenes with Biggs and Cammie were good, and I wish they were left in the film. Made Tatooine seem a bit less remote, but still a pretty desolate place.

I'm about to start ROTS. See how bad that is, too.

You know, there's an off hand reference to hot chocolate early in the first Zahn novel, Heir to the Empire, that took me right out of the thing for a minute. It happens.

 

[Kovnyn]

Are you referring to 'sitting ducks'?

Would you prefer 'sitting woozle wuzzles'? or 'sitting space ducks'?

No, that's not the reference. It was one of Obi Wans musings. The line, verbatim, is "what is a duck?".

When Luke saw Chewbacca for the first time, he was reminded of a dog he used to have.


And yeah, the Hot Chocolate in Heir was the first of soooooo many hot chocolates Luke drank.

To be fair none of the SW novelizations made ANYTHING sound good, except for Revenge of the Sith.
AFD's novelization of ANH is one of the most cringe-inducing pieces of writing I've read. ROTJ is also a joke.

I'm sure you've read Star Wars '74 and the Leigh Brackett ESB screenplay? Wow. Talk about cringe.