Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker?

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The OT is the original story, it grew and evolved along the way under the hand of the original creator and those working with him. Any series of stories evolve and even change as the play out. But when a bunch of talentless hackfrauds come along 40 years later and retcon everything that came before, without the creator's input and even against his wishes, it is not the same thing.
 
robn1 said:
The OT is the original story, it grew and evolved along the way under the hand of the original creator and those working with him. Any series of stories evolve and even change as the play out. But when a bunch of talentless hackfrauds come along 40 years later and retcon everything that came before, without the creator's input and even against his wishes, it is not the same thing.
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HMSwolfe said:
The only thing worse than a bad film is slavish devotion to a bad film. Entertainment may be subjective but quality is not. I am sick and tired of the explanations as to “why it all makes sense and why it’s good”. Just say you liked it, what you liked about it and be done. No one’s getting convinced. Ever. It’s a damn movie, and some people here are acting like we’re fighting in the Crusades.
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Is this the classic 'you can like it but you have to admit it's bad?'
 
robn1 said:
The OT is the original story, it grew and evolved along the way under the hand of the original creator and those working with him. Any series of stories evolve and even change as the play out. But when a bunch of talentless hackfrauds come along 40 years later and retcon everything that came before, without the creator's input and even against his wishes, it is not the same thing.
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Remind who it was that decided there should be a Sequel Trilogy? Ah yes, George Lucas.
 
George is like many other creators that get a big hit, try to do something else but end up going back to the same well later in their career. The PT does nothing to enrich the original story of the OT, it actually damages it when taken as canon.
So whether or not George wanted a ST is really irrelevant when considering the quality of the films, just like the PT.
 
Psab keel said:
Then let time be the victor. In a decade I honestly doubt the ST will be remembered all that fondly and will be seen for the failures that they truly are.
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You know, 15 years ago, people said the same of the PT. Now many fans consider it a treasure.
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I'm not sure many fans "treasure" it. Sure the kids who watched the PT growing up have a soft spot for it but I don't think any of the films outside the OT will have that same lasting fan devotion. I've personally never seen that kind of love from that generation, then again I'm older. I think even many in the original Star Wars generation only softened to the PT because they saw what the ST did to the story and realized that perhaps they were too hard on Lucas for his choices. I complete agree with you that each successive generation is usually more forgiving than the last when it comes to things like these but I just don't see these additions having the same impact or significance to fans going forward. As time marches on I suspect they will be viewed as just another movie series when you're scrolling by on whatever streaming service you use as opposed to the kind that gets rewatched over and over.
 
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robn1 said:
If this one fact doesn't convince you how gawdawful terrible the ST is then you'll never understand :lol:
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What fact? That people's opinions of something managed to change over time, and that vitriolic hate gave way to appreciation?

Psab keel said:
I'm not sure many fans "treasure" it. Sure the kids who watched the PT growing up have a soft spot for it but I don't think any of the films outside the OT will have that same lasting fan devotion. I've personally never seen that kind of love from that generation, then again I'm older. I think even many in the original Star Wars generation only softened to the PT because they saw what the ST did to the story and realized that perhaps they were too hard on Lucas for his choices. I complete agree with you that each successive generation is usually more forgiving than the last when it comes to things like these but I just don't see these additions having the same impact or significance to fans going forward. As time marches on I suspect they will be viewed as just another movie series when you're scrolling by on whatever streaming service you use as opposed to the kind that gets rewatched over and over.
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I see many, many fans who love the movie on the various Facebook pages I follow. And not just "the memes are funny" crowd, but people who genuinely appreciate the movies. And they're not just kids, but grown adults who were around when the OT was the only thing there was. I want to say that the PT started gaining something more than a cult following back in the very early 2010s, when the TCW series was still airing on Cartoon Network, and obviously before Disney was even in the picture.
 
Fair enough. Like I said I don't come across many people who actually like the PT as films other than elements (good casting, great costumes, good production design) the way you might. Though as you said, much of that had to do with the Clone Wars series that had to correct the rushed storyline of the films themselves, which to my view is almost an admission of poor creative choices. If you have to create an entire tv series to better develop your characters then perhaps the film versions were pretty thinly drawn. I mean that could just bring us down another rabbit hole of long form story telling vs. short form story telling and I'm not interested in delving too deep into that or the specifics of how the PT didn't work.

Star Wars has real competition for kids attention and I suspect the Marvel films will have the lasting effect on them going forward. The kind where they hold onto them dearly and go to conventions to meet the actors, dressed as their favorite Avenger in an accurate costume kind of devotion. I don't see that happening for the ST. Just my theory.
 
CT1138 said:
What fact? That people's opinions of something managed to change over time, and that vitriolic hate gave way to appreciation?
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Yeah, that. A lot of folks who hated the PT have warmed to it in recent years, due in part to how bad the ST is. I've seen the posts and heard it in conversations "The PT had it's flaws, but it's Shakespeare compared to the ST". And there's plenty of vitriol to go around on both sides.

I see the same thing with Star Trek. Many were critical of Rick Berman for how the TNG era shows and films went in their final years, but after the recent glut of Jar Jar Drek, Duhscovery etc. many now feel they owe Berman an apology "Please come back, we didn't know how good we had it!"
 
robn1 said:
Yeah, that. A lot of folks who hated the PT have warmed to it in recent years, due in part to how bad the ST is. I've seen the posts and heard it in conversations "The PT had it's flaws, but it's Shakespeare compared to the ST". And there's plenty of vitriol to go around on both sides.

I see the same thing with Star Trek. Many were critical of Rick Berman for how the TNG era shows and films went in their final years, but after the recent glut of Jar Jar Drek, Duhscovery etc. many now feel they owe Berman an apology "Please come back, we didn't know how good we had it!"
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I never ever understood that mentality though. It's like wanting my haemorrhoid back when I broke my leg cuz that was less painful. I'd rather be rid of both, but it seems some people no longer have the concept of being healthy.
 
Yeah I don't get it either. Both suck. It's just that one sucks less. I was only trying to rationalize the mentality behind it. I'm no longer a PT apologist and haven't been for years.
 
sztriki said:
I never ever understood that mentality though. It's like wanting my haemorrhoid back when I broke my leg cuz that was less painful. I'd rather be rid of both, but it seems some people no longer have the concept of being healthy.
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I don't think that phenomenon is as wide spread as some people make it out to be. The vast majority of films look worse rather than better as people mature and look closer at them. I can't really think of anything that looks better to me now than it did when I was younger. It's actually quite the opposite, the OT is a rarity for me as far as being able to still enjoy something produced in my youth. Most of the entertainment I loved as a kid is either craptastic or so much of a "kid" product that I don't really enjoy it much (except to rip it up RLM style with my kid). ;)
 
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