Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[Psab keel]

Plus not having Lando return from the start in TFA was a huge missed opportunity in my book because I love his character and he's one of the main cast.

Ultimately the diversity of the cast is really not as important as the story. Just tell a good story and cast whoever fits the part, regardless of their race/ gender etc. Otherwise you're checking off boxes to fill a demographic rather than having anything interesting to say and that screams of a committee, paint by the numbers scenario.

 

[Joek3rr]

Plus not having Lando return from the start in TFA was a huge missed opportunity in my book because I love his character and he's one of the main cast.

Ultimately the diversity of the cast is really not as important as the story. Just tell a good story and cast whoever fits the part, regardless of their race/ gender etc. Otherwise you're checking off boxes to fill a demographic rather than having anything interesting to say and that screams of a committee, paint by the numbers scenario.

Isn't that what they did? Finn(Sam), an ex-stormtrooper was developed long before John was cast.

This is Finn and who would become Poe Dameron

 

[Psab keel]

That doesn't address the issue Boyega took with his lack of character development in 8 and 9.

 

[cboath]

I think the lack of development had more to do with changing directors. JJ sets the stage, RJ alters the plan to go his own way, JJ comes back and redirects things in a different direction again...They needed more time to refocus the efforts of the leads. It wasn't personal or anything else, i don't think. Just a result of the mismanagement from the get go.

 

[Psab keel]

It had to do with poor planning. Directors change all the time on movies.

 

[Joek3rr]

That doesn't address the issue Boyega took with his lack of character development in 8 and 9.

"What I would say to Disney is do not bring out a Black character, market them to be much more important in the franchise than they are and then have them pushed to the side," Boyega said. "It's not good. I'll say it straight up."

It's called misleading promotional materials. So people don't know what the story will be. I mean Marvel has been doing it for great long while.

"Like, you guys knew what to do with Daisy Ridley, you knew what to do with Adam Driver," Boyega said. "You knew what to do with these other people, but when it came to Kelly Marie Tran, when it came to John Boyega, you know f--- all. So what do you want me to say? What they want you to say is, 'I enjoyed being a part of it. It was a great experience...' Nah, nah, nah. I'll take that deal when it’s a great experience. They gave all the nuance to Adam Driver, all the nuance to Daisy Ridley."

Maybe that's because Daisy and Adam were playing the main characters of the story? Yes? Whereas John was playing a supporting character.

 

[Psab keel]

It's called misleading promotional materials. So people don't know what the story will be. I mean Marvel has been doing it for great long while.

Maybe that's because Daisy and Adam were playing the main characters of the story? Yes? Whereas John was playing a supporting character.

Or maybe he's calling out Lucasfilm for how hypocritical they were in promoting these films as being more progressive than they actually were. I seem to recall article after article singing their praises for breaking down barriers when in fact they weren't.

In a well crafted script, even supporting characters can have growth and depth over the course of the story. It's one thing to edit a trailer and promotional material to not give away plot points. It's another thing entirely to relegate one of the leads to the background because the writers didn't know what to do with them. Finn, Poe, and Rey were the 3 new leads, the new Han, Luke and Leia if you will, of this trilogy.

 

[Ron]

Didn't JJ once say one of the reasons he hired John was to make Star Wars more "diversified"? As if it wasn't already.

All that aside, Han wasnt the main character in the OT and had a meaningful role. Finn could've had the same.

 

[Joek3rr]

Or maybe he's calling out Lucasfilm for how hypocritical they were in promoting these films as being more progressive than they actually were. I seem to recall article after article singing their praises for breaking down barriers when in fact they weren't.

In a well crafted script, even supporting characters can have growth and depth over the course of the story. It's one thing to edit a trailer and promotional material to not give away plot points. It's another thing entirely to relegate one of the leads to the background because the writers didn't know what to do with them. Finn, Poe, and Rey were the 3 new leads, the new Han, Luke and Leia if you will, of this trilogy.

I don't remember any articles. Then again I was trying to stay spoiler-free, so I didn't read anything.

All I'm saying is why is getting upset about misleading promotional material?

How many people actually thought he was going to be the main hero? I sure didn't. I knew it was going to be Rey.
I mean nobody complained when General Grievous didn't have any character development.

And Finn does have depth and growth, so this is a moot point. From an ex-stormtrooper who's trying to run away from everything! To becoming a Resistance general and hero leading a bunch of ex-stormtroopers like himself in a battle for the freedom of the galaxy.

 

[Joek3rr]

Didn't JJ once say one of the reasons he hired John was to make Star Wars more "diversified"? As if it wasn't already.

All that aside, Han wasnt the main character in the OT and had a meaningful role. Finn could've had the same.

Yep, very meaningful. That role of being Leia's love interest, because someone had to be, now that Luke and Leia were brother and sister. And that would have just weird if they ended up together. So meaningful.............

 

[Ron]

Yep, very meaningful. That role of being Leia's love interest, because someone had to be, now that Luke and Leia were brother and sister. And that would have just weird if they ended up together. So meaningful.............

You don't think his character was great in ANH and ESB? I'll grant you he didn't have much to do in ROTJ but his romance with Leia was well established before they decided to make her and Luke siblings.

 

[HMSwolfe]

I mean nobody complained when General Grievous didn't have any character development.

I think you’ll find a long history of complaints against those films, so maybe don’t lean on those as examples?

(and yeah, if you come at me with “I meant specifically General Grievous”, I will bring up the infamous Plinkett review for ROTS, which does specifically criticize the “character” of General Grievous)

 

[Psab keel]

Why do you keep talking about promotional materials? I thought you didn't read anything about TFA before it's release so that you could stay spoiler free?

Everyone knew Rey was going to be the lead protagonist. If you're older than the age of 10 I think just about everyone could see that coming from a mile away.

Besides, it was John Boyega who pointed this whole thing out. I just thought it was telling that this observation came directly from one of the lead actors and not just a fan.

 

[Darth Fetty]

Maybe that's because Daisy and Adam were playing the main characters of the story? Yes? Whereas John was playing a supporting character.

Doesn't matter. Supporting characters can have great nuance and character development. Lando in ESB is an excellent example of a nuanced but fantastic secondary character arc. He's a businessman stuck with an impossible choice, betrays his friend, but then redeems himself in the end.

Finn started well in TFA going from being a runaway terrified by everything to overcoming his fear and becoming a hero. But then he was wasted through the rest of the trilogy. Episode 8? Same exact character arc as TFA. Episode 9? Pointless extra character obnoxiously arguing with his supposed friend. I completely agree with Boyega. Diversity is great, but not diversity just for the sake of the image of diversity alone.

 

[sztriki]

Yep, very meaningful. That role of being Leia's love interest, because someone had to be, now that Luke and Leia were brother and sister. And that would have just weird if they ended up together. So meaningful.............

Wow. I thought I've seen things but this takes the cake man.

 

[Psab keel]

Yeah for someone who claims to love Star Wars so much, he sure does take the piss out of the OT at frequent intervals.

 

[Joek3rr]

You don't think his character was great in ANH and ESB? I'll grant you he didn't have much to do in ROTJ but his romance with Leia was well established before they decided to make her and Luke siblings.

I agree with you. ANH and ESB, particularly ESB is pretty good. But Han so underused in ROTJ.

 

[Joek3rr]

Doesn't matter. Supporting characters can have great nuance and character development. Lando in ESB is an excellent example of a nuanced but fantastic secondary character arc. He's a businessman stuck with an impossible choice, betrays his friend, but then redeems himself in the end.

Finn started well in TFA going from being a runaway terrified by everything to overcoming his fear and becoming a hero. But then he was wasted through the rest of the trilogy. Episode 8? Same exact character arc as TFA. Episode 9? Pointless extra character obnoxiously arguing with his supposed friend. I completely agree with Boyega. Diversity is great, but not diversity just for the sake of the image of diversity alone.

Episdoe 8 doesn't have the same character arc.

TFA Finn goes from being afraid and running away to returning and helping Rey.
TLJ, Finn goes from being solely focused on Rey, to caring about the Resistance and the and the larger galactic wide struggle for freedom.
TROS, he's now an established hero and general and fulfills his duties.

 

[Joek3rr]

Wow. I thought I've seen things but this takes the cake man.

Yeah for someone who claims to love Star Wars so much, he sure does take the piss out of the OT at frequent intervals.

On my last viewing of the whole saga. It really jumped out at me how 'meh' Han is in ROTJ. Even Harrison's acting is meh. He comes off as so corny and campy. Not sure why I've never noticed that before. Just something that stuck out last time I watched it.

 

[sztriki]

On my last viewing of the whole saga. It really jumped out at me how 'meh' Han is in ROTJ. Even Harrison's acting is meh. He comes off as so corny and campy. Not sure why I've never noticed that before. Just something that stuck out last time I watched it.

That is absolutely true for ROTJ but what you said is like saying Vader was a nice cuddly old man because he didn't do anything horrible or particularly intimidating in ROTJ other than bullying Jerjerrod and lovingly smiled at Luke at the end. Pretty damn myopic way of looking at it.
You know what would have worked with Finn? If he actually sacrificed himself in TLJ. For a few seconds I was actually giving credit for the movie for having the balls to pull this and make a meaningful death to a main character in the middle installment (not the Gandalf/Obi-wan like "mantor dies trope but one of the actual main characters) until stupidity hit. But then self-important Boyega would probably complain that the first and only main character to be killed off is him...