Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release)

[Halliwax]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Yeah, although I don't think it's an anti PT bias, it's just tying these sequel films closer to the OT which makes sense chronologically and narratively. Then you add in all the comments made by people within LF, both Kasdan and the story group, and it becomes less opaque. And it's not LF policy to just outright make a public statement which is a lie like Bad Robot did with ST Into Darkness.

i agree... I'm use to that though, I LIVED for abc's LOST... theories were said, bad robot said no way.. and then the next season the theories turned out to be what we said... lied to for 6 years...

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

i agree... I'm use to that though, I LIVED for abc's LOST... theories were said, bad robot said no way.. and then the next season the theories turned out to be what we said... lied to for 6 years...

Yeah, JJ has acknowledge his missteps in the interest of secrecy, and TFA wasn't just his show, KK rules that roost.

 

[astroboy]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Yeah, JJ has acknowledge his missteps in the interest of secrecy, and TFA wasn't just his show, KK rules that roost.

JJ and the mystery box is one of the worst concepts of the modern era.

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[Halliwax]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

JJ and the mystery box is one of the worst concepts of the modern era.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

his mystery box doesnt work for me anymore. he's used it so much it has become too predictable. to be honest, and i hope this is not true but if snoke does turn out to be plagueis i wouldn't be surprised...

what he needs to really do is quit this " it doesnt need to be explained crap" most if not all of his movies drops you into the movie with out explanation and you just live the moment.. worry about the back story later..

if i get pulled out of the movie awhile watching its a bad thing, i want to be in zombie mode examining the film and listening to the sentences to decipher the clues. i was totally pulled out when they asked Maz where the saber came from and she said " a story for another day" i hate that crap... why even ask " where did the saber come from" cheesy excuse...

and keeping reys heritage so secret in the first film screams to me she's a skywalker... even though the books are looking the other way.. why keep her name so secret.... JJ get over the mystery box already and tell a damn story

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

i have to agree with you, i honestly think kennedy wants to forget the prequels... tying snoke into the prequels i dont think is the direction they want to go... i do like the theory that snoke has been on the outer reaches of space, and palpatine knew of him....

The inclusion of Ewan McGregor's voice and those Pod Racing flags in TFA, as well as Jimmy Smits and Genevieve O'Reilly in Rogue One make it clear that Kennedy wants to forget the prequels. Also in TFA, Lor San Takka's talk of the balance of the Force echoes similar talk in TPM and Kylo Ren talking about a clone army aren't direct callbacks to the PT.

 

[astroboy]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

his mystery box doesnt work for me anymore. he's used it so much it has become too predictable. to be honest, and i hope this is not true but if snoke does turn out to be plagueis i wouldn't be surprised...

what he needs to really do is quit this " it doesnt need to be explained crap" most if not all of his movies drops you into the movie with out explanation and you just live the moment.. worry about the back story later..

if i get pulled out of the movie awhile watching its a bad thing, i want to be in zombie mode examining the film and listening to the sentences to decipher the clues. i was totally pulled out when they asked Maz where the saber came from and she said " a story for another day" i hate that crap... why even ask " where did the saber come from" cheesy excuse...

and keeping reys heritage so secret in the first film screams to me she's a skywalker... even though the books are looking the other way.. why keep her name so secret.... JJ get over the mystery box already and tell a damn story

The whole thing with rey's heritage was lame. The only reason that it's a secret is because he wanted us to have something to be curious about. There is something incredibly unnatural about dialogue that tries to keep the audience in the dark.

The Darth Vader reveal was one of cinemas greatest moments for many reasons. The main one is that it was never a mystery before. But it did change everything about the story.


But here, they're making a contrived mystery of of nothing. And the fact is, when all is revealed, at least half of us are going to feel ripped off and dissatisfied.

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[crabra comander]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

How the hell was that reveal not a mystery? I was young and was surprised...

And you are presuming alot from the new film as well. You've already been let down, blah blah, but a new director can hopefully rectify the issues that a majority of viewers had with the story.

The Darth Vader reveal was one of cinemas greatest moments for many reasons. The main one is that it was never a mystery before. But it did change everything about the story.

 

[astroboy]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

How the hell was that reveal not a mystery? I was young and was surprised...

And you are presuming alot from the new film as well. You've already been let down, blah blah, but a new director can hopefully rectify the issues that a majority of viewers had with the story.

It wasn't a mystery because Ben told Luke that his father was killed by a young pupil of his named Darth Vader. Period.

Ben lied to him and everyone bought it. And not only that but at the end of the day that lie took the series to the next level. It made sense in the world of the film

If Abrams had done it, we would have had some lingering questions that were only there to generate buzz. See Kahn.

Compare that to TFA. there was no "I'm world" reason for Rey to withhold her back story to these new friends. It was awkward. It was only a mystery for our benefit.


Dragging us along with Rey or snoke has more to do with generating buzz than it does good storytelling. When at this point, it feels more like he's buying time to get the story straight. (See Nugalactica)

The reason I say that it will disappoint half of us is that we already know there's a question. It needs to be answered. Some of us will buy it. And it will wreck the movie for the other people.

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[DINVADER]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

If you think ANYONE on this planet can make a SW film that no one has "issues" or "complaints" with, you're nuts. They kept the bitchin' with EP7 to a minimum this time. Helps that they got somewhere between 80 to 90 percent of people liking the movie. But for every 100 who see it 10 to 20 won't like it. That still amounts to a lot of complaints online based on all the numbers of people that saw it.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

The inclusion of Ewan McGregor's voice and those Pod Racing flags in TFA, as well as Jimmy Smits and Genevieve O'Reilly in Rogue One make it clear that Kennedy wants to forget the prequels. Also in TFA, Lor San Takka's talk of the balance of the Force echoes similar talk in TPM and Kylo Ren talking about a clone army aren't direct callbacks to the PT.

Minor nit: The podracing team flags were only in the trailer, not the final film.

--Jonah

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Minor nit: The podracing team flags were only in the trailer, not the final film.

--Jonah

Weren't they in the theatrical release and removed from the home releases?

edit: apparently the flags disappeared after the trailer and were not in any cut of the finished movie - theatrical or home.

 

[Westies14]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Where Tyranus and Sideous even referred to by those names in the prequel movies?

...and to be honest the whole name game started in the original Star Wars... you know, with old Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi.

End of AotC i think, palpatine calls Dooku Lord Tyrannus - just once.
In TPM (i think) the nemoidians call palpatine Lord Sidious.

Didn't those clone people tell Obi Wan about Darth Tyrannus or something, too? Damn you for making me think about those films!

The point is that the prequels used these pseudonyms and secret roles in a very disorienting way and never did much to account for or clarify any of it. Again, I'm loathe to reinforce it in my memory after so many years of pretending it didn't exist, but I still have no idea who's who in TPM concerning Amidala. Did they use Portman interchangeably, with Kiera Knightly only portraying Padme while wearing makeup? Did the Queen scrub R2 clean? Or was that wasted time with her impersonator forging a bond with young Anakin? Couldn't her impersonator have asked one of the non-royal handmaidens to do that chore? Such confusing nonsense. The exact thing we're describing with Snoke is what the Dooku reveal felt like. "Oh snap, the 'Darth Tyranus' who ordered the clone army was really 'Count Dooku' all along?" Anyone else as floored as I was? The prequels leave you feeling like you're missing something for however long it takes you to understand/accept that what you're missing just isn't there. They're objectively bad storytelling which I'm still hoping won't be echoed in the sequels.

Conversely, Obi Wan was in hiding using an assumed name. He was one of the first characters we meet (through Luke, who's really the owner of the misunderstanding as opposed to the audience), and the confusion was quickly and clearly resolved through a couple lines of dialogue right up front as we meet him. Nothing disorienting about that. "Ben Kenobi, are you related to Obi Wan Kenobi?" "Oh, no, I AM Obi-Wan Kenobi. I used to go by that name!" That doesn't exactly leave us in the dark, nor does it excuse the clumsy aliases of the PT.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Weren't they in the theatrical release and removed from the home releases?

edit: apparently the flags disappeared after the trailer and were not in any cut of the finished movie - theatrical or home.

Exactly. I was watching for them in the theater when I went to see it. Thought I might have missed them the first time, became increasingly sure they just weren't there on subsequent. I'm a little irked, actually, as that seems the sort of thing Maz would collect, amongst others. My take from Rebels and TFA and the new books and comics isn't so much that they're actively avoiding any and all mention of anything that appeared in the Prequels so much as... *thinks* ...including references and nods here and there that generally fit the framework of what's being told, without going out of their way either direction. i.e., nothing like R5-D4 secretly being a Rebel agent and purposefully blowing his own motivator so R2-D2 can complete his own mission. No shoehorned references that I've seen so far. Frankly, I wish a few more of the OT or PT aliens had shown up somewhere in TFA -- without necessarily drawing attention to it or making it a story point or no reason other than to say "Look! A Quarren! (or whatever)".

TFA played heavily on he nostalgia factor, hearkening back to the original film (some say directly ripping it off, while I disagree with that assessment, for reasons catalogued in the TFA threads). I think they might have gone a bit overboard with references to Star Wars, whilst ignoring the rest of the OT (i.e., TIE Fighters again, but no Interceptors or Bombers or like that), but they didn't seem to be actively trying to avoid mention of anything that happened prior.

--Jonah

 

[astroboy]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

At one point I read that Master Syfo Dias was actually written as Sidious on the script but bad photocopying caused confusion...so they kept it

 

[doctorDWwho]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

I hope hope hope snoke is a new character, and I really hope he's not in Rogue One. People do stuff like that where they go back without any foundation and say 'oh look, it was like this the whole time! It's so shocking and unexpected!"

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

And still no one knows who Del Toro is playing...

http://www.slashfilm.com/benicio-del-toro-episode-8-role/

 

[cboath]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

I hope hope hope snoke is a new character, and I really hope he's not in Rogue One. People do stuff like that where they go back without any foundation and say 'oh look, it was like this the whole time! It's so shocking and unexpected!"

Objectively speaking, given his supposed age, he WAS around during the OT and R1. The fact that we didn't see him in the OT doesn't mean he couldn't be in R1, or the Solo movie or somewhere else. I don't think it's bad if he's in R1 at all or comes from Rebels, the clone wars series, or is completely new.

If he's big deal enough to rule the FO, it follows he could be big deal enough in the OT era to be around the death star/vader/emperor in some capacity.

 

[Wolfsburg]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

It is cheesy when they go overboard with retconning and such but I actually wouldn't mind if he appeared in Rogue One because for all we know, Rogue One could be an origins story (of sorts) for him disguised as something else entirely. That'd be an interesting turn from what we're expecting.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Didn't those clone people tell Obi Wan about Darth Tyrannus or something, too? Damn you for making me think about those films!

The point is that the prequels used these pseudonyms and secret roles in a very disorienting way and never did much to account for or clarify any of it. Again, I'm loathe to reinforce it in my memory after so many years of pretending it didn't exist, but I still have no idea who's who in TPM concerning Amidala. Did they use Portman interchangeably, with Kiera Knightly only portraying Padme while wearing makeup? Did the Queen scrub R2 clean? Or was that wasted time with her impersonator forging a bond with young Anakin? Couldn't her impersonator have asked one of the non-royal handmaidens to do that chore? Such confusing nonsense. The exact thing we're describing with Snoke is what the Dooku reveal felt like. "Oh snap, the 'Darth Tyranus' who ordered the clone army was really 'Count Dooku' all along?" Anyone else as floored as I was? The prequels leave you feeling like you're missing something for however long it takes you to understand/accept that what you're missing just isn't there. They're objectively bad storytelling which I'm still hoping won't be echoed in the sequels.

Really? That was confusing? Every time you saw the "handmaiden" Padme, the Queen was the handmaiden. Padme was scrubbing R2 because she was pretending to be a handmaiden! In Episode II they tell you at the end that Count Dooku is Darth Tyranus. Count Dooku is the public face. It doesn't make sense to be a Sith if you go around telling everyone. I don't see how that was any more confusing than "Ben Kenobi".

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII (Pre-release)

Well said.

I never found the "pseudonyms and secret roles" confusing at all. I enjoyed it for the most part, Padme's reveal at the end of The Phantom Menace was a strong point of that film (for me, at least).

Sith Lord's hiding their identities is basic Star Wars lore (Anakin/Vader). If you're complaining about that, you may as well complain that they used lightsabers. ...or that we don't know who Rey might really be (theoretically, she still might tied to someone that we've seen before); or is it Finn or FN 1287?

Our history shows us (rumors of) royalty in disguise throughout history - including Henry V escaping execution in disguise, and Princess Diana and her future sister-in-law posing as police officers. Even King Arthur was disguised as a peasant at one point during those mythos.