DarthLee
Sr Member
This shows the mind set of the writers... We should be thankful that we got what we got... cause that ^^ crap would have made it worse.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
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This shows the mind set of the writers... We should be thankful that we got what we got... cause that ^^ crap would have made it worse.
JoMamma_Smurf
Master Member
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Blank Slate
As for Snoke’s history, we don’t know much. But Johnson says fans of the original trilogy also knew next to nothing about the history of Emperor Palpatine.
While Serkis, who performs Snoke through motion capture, says he believes the villain’s injuries (and bitterness) stem from a long-ago conflict with the new Republic, we will have to wait for another story to explore that origin.
“I do think it’s interesting,” Johnson said. “I never want to poo-poo the fans coming up with theories. It’s part of the fun of being a Star Wars fan. If there is a place for it in another story, I hope it gets told.”
Telling it himself in The Last Jedi would have felt like he was shoehorning information on the audience that would have become a distraction. “It would have stopped any of these scenes dead cold if he had stopped and given a 30-second speech about how he’s Darth Plagueis,” Johnson said. “It doesn’t matter to Rey. If he had done that, Rey would have blinked and said, ‘Who?’ And the scene would have gone on.”
Before moving on himself, Johnson quickly added, “And I’m not saying he’s Darth Plagueis!”
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mattycsi
Master Member
Pish!
At the start of a series, yes, characters just are. You have a king or an emperor, and they are the king/emperor. We usually learn more about them as the series progresses, their background as well as their future aspirations. We learned nothing of either about Snoke. Other than he wanted to kill Luke, but not why.
Imagine an important character is killed off at the end of tv season, the next season starts and the first couple episodes tell us the replacement is super duper important and catalysing lots of story, then they just kill him and tell us nothing of why anything was happening.
Serkis' opinion is no more valid than anyone here, he doesn't know, its a best guess. And from that blurb, it sounds like RJ doesn't know either and is back peddling like a gooddun.
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ghostryder
Legendary Member
Vox
Sr Member
To you both, and to anyone else who feels this way, I pose this question non-confrontationally: What's the alternative that you would have rather seen?
What we know at the end of The Force Awakens is that Luke disappeared without telling anyone where he was going. We know that that happened after Ben Solo / Kylo Ren was corrupted by Snoke to the dark side and destroyed Luke's new Jedi temple and (presumably) corrupting or killing the rest of the students. We have to infer that Luke's exile is at least partially, if not completely, due to whatever happened between him and Ben. So TLJ has to deal with why Luke has not returned yet. What are the options? (Spoiler tags used to shrink post size.)
-Luke is studying to better himself.
Kind of a weak choice, and hard to justify why he would have stayed away and incommunicado for so long. Maybe he feels he can master his bond with the Force to the point that he can outmatch Snoke/Ren, but he has to remain secreted away lest his studies be interrupted before he's ready. But if he is still there on the island, still studying, it means he still does not feel strong enough to confront them, which would mean he has been living in fear for years. Fear being the path to the dark side, has Luke slipped down a dark path and it now falls to Rey to bring him back to the light? That would be challenging to watch/believe given that Rey's own knowledge of the Force is rudimentary at best.
-Luke is afraid.
See above. Luke was shocked to his core to have failed so badly with Ben Solo that he ran to the one place that might give him comfort: the birthplace of the Jedi Order. It would mean that Luke has been living as those do that typically succumb to the dark side. Perhaps that's why he has remained secluded: he recognizes his fear, but has been unable to conquer it, and has therefore kept himself in exile lest he further turn to the dark side and hurt the ones he cares about. Ultimately that leaves us with the same problem as above: a person with very little experience wielding the force and only just joined the Resistance is now taxed with convincing him to come back, by some how showing or convincing him not to be afraid. We already established that it is undesirable to watch Luke conquer obstacles he has already conquered, and most fans would definitely not like to see Luke be the learner to Rey, so this one is probably out.
-Luke was simply unable to return.
Maybe his X-Wing crashed on the island and, unlike on Dagobah, he was unable to resurrect it. For whatever reason, he's been stuck there, waiting for someone to come get him. I'm trying to cover every possibility here, but let's be fair and say that this would not be believable.
The point I am trying to make is that two things have to be explained within the confines of what we are given from TFA: what sent Luke into exile, and what is keeping him in exile. Really, the only other alternative to "Luke being the catalyst that turns Ben Solo into Kylo Ren" is that Snoke finally pushed/corrupted/manipulated Ben enough that Ben decided that his grandfather was right, Snoke is right, and the Jedi must not be allowed to fully return. A.K.A. Exactly what Palpatine did to Anakin.
Star Wars deserves better than a rehash of previous plots. The original mythos centered around the Episodes is so familiar, so utterly gospel, that the majority of us praised The Force Awakens (myself included, I still enjoy it) despite how obviously similar it is to A New Hope when you look at it objectively. TLJ contrasts the original gospel: the "head villain" is dead well before the end of the film let alone trilogy (though coincidentally still by the hand of his apprentice), the hero's mentor is reluctant to be a mentor, and the hotshot pilot (with whom we side) turns out to make the wrong decision. The biggest similarity to ESB is that the end leaves us with the good guys running away to live to fight another day.
After Episode VII reminded us SO MUCH of "the one that started it all," it is very jarring and feels wrong to receive a film that sharply departs from that norm, both with the plot and with the original hero of said norm. It feels like the original arc was so good, so epic, so meaningful, that there is no need to change it. And yet, departing from what was familiar to people, or what "worked," is very much what George Lucas did with the first film that launched this whole thing.
I would argue that Star Wars deserves something new, and not just in terms of creatures, characters, locations, and lore. It is going to be unfamiliar, and may leave us saying, "It isn't broken, why are you trying to fix it?!" but ultimately is the only way that the franchise can grow and expand without stagnating.
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DarthLee
Sr Member
We also knew very little to nothing about Star Wars, when the Emperor was intruduced
Well he is dead now... so.. ..
There could have been a place for it.....Cut some unneeded scenes out and tell a brief history.... hell you already made a 2.5 hour movie...whats 15 minutes more?
Didnt have to tell it to Rey... there are ways to give a history without, taking too much time..comments here... comments there...
And I would not have minded a brief pause (distraction) for information like that...
Instead of 2.5 hours of scene after scene,,,jumping around all over the place..
Just my worthless 2 cents on Snoke's story...lol
Remember... you cannot go back and make prequels of sequels..so you better nail it the first time..
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CT1138
Sr Member
Ummm... in 1983, we didn't know why the Emperor wanted to kill Luke in RotJ other than the obvious fact that he couldn't be controlled by the Empire. We didn't know he was a Senator from Naboo, we didn't know that he was a Sith, we didn't even know his name! The name "Palpatine" is never once uttered in RotJ. That came from the novelization (which took from the script). But on screen, he was always the evil Emperor that turned Darth Vader to the Dark Side and ordered him to hunt down all the Jedi. A lot people forget how little exposition the OT actually gave. Most of our understanding of the Empire, the Force, and the characters didn't come until after with EU supplementation and the prequels.
Sometimes they explain too much I think. :unsure
DarthLee
Sr Member
First off... Star Wars was so new...that people didnt even know what they didnt know...so no one knew what to ask.....so it would be easy to get away with not explaining.....
The simple fact that they made the prequels, shows they knew they needed to explain some things..
If they realize this in the new trilogy (with a now more seasoned crowd...even the kids),... how will it be done...another Rogue One style movie?. Thats why I thought it would be best to explain alittle. when it happens
Well, Mark HIMSELF thought his initial opinion was wrong.
mattycsi
Master Member
The hell where you watching?
It was pretty clear what Palpatines intentions where for Luke. He wanted to sign him to his team, create more power for himself with a spare powerful force user kicking about the place.
All neatly explained without having to have it jar the script/action as RJ states.
And then, when they made new star wars they endeavoured to explain all this, they didn't wash over it all or ignore it, as RJ has done in TLJ.
DarthLee
Sr Member
Im sure when the first automobiles came out, no one thought of asking why there was no heater...
But now...after years of automobiles...like Star Wars,,,certain things have to be there.... and when there not...we are now knowledgeable to ask where is it
RJ, is not the originator of Star Wars.. and to act like it by changing it so extreme to fit his vision.... will loose in the long run.
But now...after years of automobiles...like Star Wars,,,certain things have to be there.... and when there not...we are now knowledgeable to ask where is it
RJ, is not the originator of Star Wars.. and to act like it by changing it so extreme to fit his vision.... will loose in the long run.
vader45
Sr Member
Im suprised there is so much hate for this movie in this thread. No way in hell could a movie ruin Star Wars for any one. Just relax and have fun and be entertained! That is the whole point of the movie industry.
No movie sucks as bad as people are saying here till they have seen a movie that lacks any actual professional presentation. I have seen those kinds of movies that are released by a professional movie studio but look like a toddler wrote and shot the movie. So lighten up on the movie........and have fun. Im not saying to like it but geeze there are other things to put a lot of hatred into.
The Last Jedi did not have Attack of the Clones writing, performance, nor the unbearable love crap between two characters. What the film does is gives us a whole brand new movie while still staying true to the underlying mythology of the Star Wars universe. It accurately references the other films.
I was surprised by the direction Luke was taken, but it really made sense. He spent 3 movies trying to find his place between the light and the dark Side while fighting for the good in his father. He did succeed, however, it all went to hell again when Ben turned on him. Luke was probably thinking "oh hell not this again." Having to go through all that pain again was just to much for his age and that is why he vanished and turned on the Jedi order. If he did not fully succeed in the OT whose to say how long with the struggle between the light and the Dark side will last? Humans can only take so much before they crack. So in my opinion, the take on Luke(while surprised me) was absolutely well done and Hamill's performance was absolutely jaw dropping.
A lot if the film did take after ESB.....We have a powerful organization high tailing a band of rebels while the hero splits off to train with a wise master. Even though a lot of it is new the whole under structure of the plot IS ESB.
When I saw the Marry Poppins scene in the theater I hated it....But it makes sense when I saw a reviewer's take on it. If force users can lift things why cant they use that to lift their bodys and in lamens term FLY(have you ever seen them jump?)? Leia still had enough energy to use the force to pull her to the ship. And why do people keep saying that scene should have been used to write her out? Remember the whole production of the film was nearly completed when Fisher passed away. No one could have predicted her death.
When I read articles about Canto Bight I thought it would have a lot of screen time in the film. But it did not, it was more like 20 mintues. I did not care for those scenes so Im glad they were cut down. When the film shifted away from Luke and Rey I just wanted the scenes to end and go back to them. The scenes between those 2 were amazing in my opinionin both they were beautifully written and executed both by Daisy and Mark. My favorite scene was when Rey almost went to the dark side trying to find her place and her past and parents down that dark hole.
The force in this movie tried new things we have not seen before....the same thing happened in the prequels. I dont argue or try to hate on these new aspects of the force because there is no definitive sources that tells us the COMPLETE powers and limitations of the force. And that leaves the door open for filmmakers to challenge the force and to try new things. That is what Rian did in the Last Jedi.
The film rang true to me as new and returning and this is coming from a 25 year old life long fan of Star Wars who grew up with the prequels but will always choose the OT over them any day.
No movie sucks as bad as people are saying here till they have seen a movie that lacks any actual professional presentation. I have seen those kinds of movies that are released by a professional movie studio but look like a toddler wrote and shot the movie. So lighten up on the movie........and have fun. Im not saying to like it but geeze there are other things to put a lot of hatred into.
The Last Jedi did not have Attack of the Clones writing, performance, nor the unbearable love crap between two characters. What the film does is gives us a whole brand new movie while still staying true to the underlying mythology of the Star Wars universe. It accurately references the other films.
I was surprised by the direction Luke was taken, but it really made sense. He spent 3 movies trying to find his place between the light and the dark Side while fighting for the good in his father. He did succeed, however, it all went to hell again when Ben turned on him. Luke was probably thinking "oh hell not this again." Having to go through all that pain again was just to much for his age and that is why he vanished and turned on the Jedi order. If he did not fully succeed in the OT whose to say how long with the struggle between the light and the Dark side will last? Humans can only take so much before they crack. So in my opinion, the take on Luke(while surprised me) was absolutely well done and Hamill's performance was absolutely jaw dropping.
A lot if the film did take after ESB.....We have a powerful organization high tailing a band of rebels while the hero splits off to train with a wise master. Even though a lot of it is new the whole under structure of the plot IS ESB.
When I saw the Marry Poppins scene in the theater I hated it....But it makes sense when I saw a reviewer's take on it. If force users can lift things why cant they use that to lift their bodys and in lamens term FLY(have you ever seen them jump?)? Leia still had enough energy to use the force to pull her to the ship. And why do people keep saying that scene should have been used to write her out? Remember the whole production of the film was nearly completed when Fisher passed away. No one could have predicted her death.
When I read articles about Canto Bight I thought it would have a lot of screen time in the film. But it did not, it was more like 20 mintues. I did not care for those scenes so Im glad they were cut down. When the film shifted away from Luke and Rey I just wanted the scenes to end and go back to them. The scenes between those 2 were amazing in my opinionin both they were beautifully written and executed both by Daisy and Mark. My favorite scene was when Rey almost went to the dark side trying to find her place and her past and parents down that dark hole.
The force in this movie tried new things we have not seen before....the same thing happened in the prequels. I dont argue or try to hate on these new aspects of the force because there is no definitive sources that tells us the COMPLETE powers and limitations of the force. And that leaves the door open for filmmakers to challenge the force and to try new things. That is what Rian did in the Last Jedi.
The film rang true to me as new and returning and this is coming from a 25 year old life long fan of Star Wars who grew up with the prequels but will always choose the OT over them any day.
CT1138
Sr Member
Yes, that's what I'm saying. The Emperor couldn't control Luke like he could control his father, so he tried to kill him. There was no underlying "All Jedi must die because they're the ancient enemy" that was brought in with the prequels. It was all a matter of control for the Emperor. What couldn't be controlled would be destroyed. It's the same reason Alderaan was obliterated.
But if it explained too much, you'd be whining about it being overly expository like the prequels.
I really love this review, it really parallels how I felt about EP8
It’s a short review, under 8 minutes:
It’s a short review, under 8 minutes:
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DarthLee
Sr Member
Im probably one the few that actually liked and enjoyed the prequels..
And im not whinning....lol
Just conversing with you fine folks
CT1138
Sr Member
I am too, actually. I don't mind the exposition, in fact I embrace it. Bu there's no denying there's no small crowd of people out there that would have preferred if Lucas kept "midichlorians" and everything else as concepts.
DarthLee
Sr Member
Liam Neeson, did an excellent job with Qui-Gon.. and explaining the Force... I wish I had more midichlorians
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