I knew what you thought of this film before this film was written.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
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I knew what you thought of this film before this film was written.
PantheraGem
Sr Member
There's a commenter who says "What if I understood the film but hated it anyway?" That's exactly how I feel.
Same could be said for 90% of the hate posters here and in the Solo thread, so...
lol, not all heroes wear capes...!
seelsa73
Sr Member
I don't think anyone's suggested he didn't do an amazing job with what he was given; just that what he was given wasn't good...or logical.
bwayne64
Master Member
That is high praise indeed ! Cause this thread is off the chain ; )
Kids aren't going to pretend to be force projections that aren't really there, that die from being tuckered out. It may be some people's idea of brilliant Star Wars, but don't tell me that TLJ is setting kid's imaginations aflame the way the OT or even the PT did.
I have one sleeping next to me on the couch right now. All the neighborhood kids play new Star Wars, Kylo Ren, Finn, Poe, et al. So that's my experience.
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But it it was good because it challenged him as an actor and us as a audience.
Fair enough. I still don't think this movie is going to age well. The characters created in TFA, I can see kids playing as, but what happens to them in this movie... doesn't strike me as something people will want to watch every year or 2-3 times a year. Maybe I'm wrong.
JD
Master Member
I think it's unfair - and probably click bait, even - to suggest that Rian was forced to explain anything. As Bryan stated - and as I've said in the past - I think we're fortunate that's he's always been outgoing and engaged the fanbase... even prior to the movie (and going back to his other movies).
I love the first one. It's all I needed. Thank you io9 user Kaye.
Star Wars in 77 was something like none of us had seen before to that point. It changed the industry and became a pop culture phenomenon. That's a hard legacy to beat. To make a musical analogy, Star Wars is like the Beatles. The new movies are like the modern pop music. Just find a pretty face that they can slap some branding on. The talent can be manufactured later with autotune and other tools.
Will it make money? Yes
Will it be forgotten when the next "big thing" comes along? Probably
Will it make money? Yes
Will it be forgotten when the next "big thing" comes along? Probably
Speaking of Luke, Bryan Young of the Full of Sith podcast has been putting out some terrific articles about the movie for those willing to have an open mind.
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/how-the-last-jedi-got-luke-skywalker-right
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/how-the-last-jedi-got-luke-skywalker-right
I just wanted to add and reiterate something I said before. I’m a fan of this franchise. All of it. I look forward to new films and books and games and toys. I don’t anticipate a new film with anything but excited enthusiasm and sit in the theater with only one objective, to have fun. Nothing is ever perfect, but it’s always a great experience for me and my family. So am I predisposed to be optimistic? You bet, guilty as charged.
astroboy
Master Member
One of the biggest mistakes the Abrams did (and Rian didn't fix) is that he didn't but the new heroes into a fellowship. You have to put together the team before you can challenge them by splitting them up.
And seeing poe meet Rey at the end of this film really hammered that home. (I also feel like chewie is a prop in this series, rather than a character)
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In regards to speculating about the longevity of these stories and modern audience sensibilities, I think that has merit but not for the reasons people tend to put forth. It won’t be driven by the characters or the quality of the stories, for good or bad. It will be because SW is moving into a volume mode of content distribution. By 2019 there will be 5 films produced by Disney’s Lucasfilm vs. 6 made by George. A film per year, a tv show, a cartoon, all will be competing for an audience. Fandom will become more divided between what you like when offered a broader menu. That’s a modern version of SW that is more inline with modern sensibilities and content consumption. It’s not better or worse then the past, just different.
Rian doing an IMAX Q and A last night. I really love his answer to the mirror cave sequence. And at the bottom when asked about his trilogy and procrastination. Anyone who thinks those three films aren’t moving forward with Rian are in serious denial.
https://makingstarwars.net/2018/02/details-last-jedi-rian-johnson/
https://makingstarwars.net/2018/02/details-last-jedi-rian-johnson/
I for one will never forgive him for spending time with us at the Premiere or engaging with fans before, during and after production or going out of his way to answer any and all questions across mulitple formats with dignity and grace...even when some were asked with neither. Such a hack. Blight on humanity more like!
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I gave up on debating some pages back. There's so much to try and keep up on, and it's really only worthwhile if one's audience hasn't already made up its mind and dug in its heels. Haters seem determined to hate and "not get it". Defenders seem to attack haters in a way that makes all parties dig in harder. Not gonna be part of that cycle. Dark rises and the Light rises to meet it and all that. 
Having seen it a few times now, I stand by my first impression -- it should have been two films. I am annoyed that Lucasfilm is so slavishly locked into the trilogy model, and it results in compressing too much content into a single film, such that things get missed or feel too rushed. I blame George for that -- first for his decision during pre-production on "Star Wars 2" that the Obi-Wan-centric chunk of his notes only had enough for three films, rather than the six he'd originally figured, then, after finishing the film now designated Episode V, deciding he wasn't going to do the last four Luke films and just wrapping everything up in one so he could walk away from Star Wars.
I like most of the beats -- just question the placement. Several emotion-charged moments with Luke then cut to light action elsewhere, and I found some of those transitions jarring.
Luke was there not to do anything Jedi-like -- he was standing guard over the repository of original Jedi texts to make sure no one else found and used them. As he said, he wanted the Jedi to end.
As for wearing Jedi robes... *sigh* That's just something I've long since resigned myself to, ever since Episode I borked things permanently. The Jedi originally had quasi-uniforms, just like our real-world monastic and knightly orders. Another good analogue is WWII German uniforms. There were requirements, but the degree to which they were met depended largely on the individual. Enlisted personnel made do with the off-the-rack stuff, while Generals often had custom-tailored uniforms made out of much finer materials, often with individual embellishments. The higher the rank, the higher the liklihood no two would be exactly alike. When we met Obi-Wan in ANH he had "once" been a Jedi Knight (i.e., no longer considered himself one), and I was too young at the time to think about it. But by the time RotJ came out, we saw what a lot of art-of books and interviews and BTS films referred to as his new "more Jedi-like" attire. That was actually what drove Iain McCaig's initial art of an Obi-Wan-only Phantom Menace -- black shirt and pants, dark gray sleeveless tunic. I'm irked they shortened Luke's in RotJ for ease of stuntwork. Even if he had gotten it torn off once the fighting started, I would have rather that been a full length sleeveless kimono he had. That ensemble, plus the hooded brown cloak (with no sleeves or armholes, BTW) is my take on a period-authentic Jedi uniform. Everything since has, IMO, "gotten it wrong". It's not Tatooine farmer garb, it's not Aayla's exotic-dancer-Jedi getup, it's not Anakin's bondage-Jedi leather outfit, etc. So what Luke's wearing when in TLJ is only superficially of any relevance to me.
Biggest objection is the stable boy at the end. Anakin was exceptionally strong in the Force, and knew about Jedi, but all he could do was pilot podracers better than any other human. In all of his time as a slave with Gardulla the Hutt or Watto, he had never fallen and instinctively caught himself with the Force, called a tool to his hand, drew on the Force to run from bullies faster or punch smart-mouthed Rodians harder, etc. So I'm not buying the stable boy just casually calling that broom to his hand. Inherent strength in the Force isn't enough. It took years of deliberate, conscious training for Luke to be able to call his lightsaber hilt to his hand. That last scene in general made no sense to me. Who got word out about Luke's showdown with the First Order? How did the stable hands see it? On a casino planet in the Corporate Sector, how have they even heard about the Jedi or Luke in the first place? They were born decades after the order had been wiped out and the Empire had been suppressing mentions.
--Jonah
Having seen it a few times now, I stand by my first impression -- it should have been two films. I am annoyed that Lucasfilm is so slavishly locked into the trilogy model, and it results in compressing too much content into a single film, such that things get missed or feel too rushed. I blame George for that -- first for his decision during pre-production on "Star Wars 2" that the Obi-Wan-centric chunk of his notes only had enough for three films, rather than the six he'd originally figured, then, after finishing the film now designated Episode V, deciding he wasn't going to do the last four Luke films and just wrapping everything up in one so he could walk away from Star Wars.
I like most of the beats -- just question the placement. Several emotion-charged moments with Luke then cut to light action elsewhere, and I found some of those transitions jarring.
Luke was there not to do anything Jedi-like -- he was standing guard over the repository of original Jedi texts to make sure no one else found and used them. As he said, he wanted the Jedi to end.
As for wearing Jedi robes... *sigh* That's just something I've long since resigned myself to, ever since Episode I borked things permanently. The Jedi originally had quasi-uniforms, just like our real-world monastic and knightly orders. Another good analogue is WWII German uniforms. There were requirements, but the degree to which they were met depended largely on the individual. Enlisted personnel made do with the off-the-rack stuff, while Generals often had custom-tailored uniforms made out of much finer materials, often with individual embellishments. The higher the rank, the higher the liklihood no two would be exactly alike. When we met Obi-Wan in ANH he had "once" been a Jedi Knight (i.e., no longer considered himself one), and I was too young at the time to think about it. But by the time RotJ came out, we saw what a lot of art-of books and interviews and BTS films referred to as his new "more Jedi-like" attire. That was actually what drove Iain McCaig's initial art of an Obi-Wan-only Phantom Menace -- black shirt and pants, dark gray sleeveless tunic. I'm irked they shortened Luke's in RotJ for ease of stuntwork. Even if he had gotten it torn off once the fighting started, I would have rather that been a full length sleeveless kimono he had. That ensemble, plus the hooded brown cloak (with no sleeves or armholes, BTW) is my take on a period-authentic Jedi uniform. Everything since has, IMO, "gotten it wrong". It's not Tatooine farmer garb, it's not Aayla's exotic-dancer-Jedi getup, it's not Anakin's bondage-Jedi leather outfit, etc. So what Luke's wearing when in TLJ is only superficially of any relevance to me.
Biggest objection is the stable boy at the end. Anakin was exceptionally strong in the Force, and knew about Jedi, but all he could do was pilot podracers better than any other human. In all of his time as a slave with Gardulla the Hutt or Watto, he had never fallen and instinctively caught himself with the Force, called a tool to his hand, drew on the Force to run from bullies faster or punch smart-mouthed Rodians harder, etc. So I'm not buying the stable boy just casually calling that broom to his hand. Inherent strength in the Force isn't enough. It took years of deliberate, conscious training for Luke to be able to call his lightsaber hilt to his hand. That last scene in general made no sense to me. Who got word out about Luke's showdown with the First Order? How did the stable hands see it? On a casino planet in the Corporate Sector, how have they even heard about the Jedi or Luke in the first place? They were born decades after the order had been wiped out and the Empire had been suppressing mentions.
--Jonah
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