Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[Jeyl]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Again, as has been mentioned many times by Lucasfilm, EU is being thrown out the window.

I told you. Already you're discounting spinoffs that feature women in roles that you say are meant for males.

The character of Leia in the films is a politician

Totally.

I don't recall politicians giving out mission briefings before an upcoming battle.

 

[Timmythekid]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I told you. Already you're discounting spinoffs that feature women in roles that you say are meant for males.



Totally.

I don't recall politicians giving out mission briefings before an upcoming battle.

You're playing semantics. Yeah, just look at her all suited up in battle gear there. She's not actually out there flying one of the speeders, is she? She doesn't participate AT ALL in the Battle of Yavin, does she? She fights when she has to, but it's really not her arena. She's a political leader, not a front line soldier.

And discounting the EU isn't being done (as far as I can see) in this discussion specifically to remove womyn - where did you see him say "The EU is all valid EXCEPT FOR MAKING LEIA A JEDI!"? MB said LFL has already said the EU is null and void - that's the whole thing, so you can't cherry pick Leia out of it and pretend whatever the books did with her still means anything.

 

[Bigdaddy]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Disagree:

Ep1 - QGJ is a father figure to Obi & Anakin.
Ep2 - Obi is a father figure (or at least older brother) to Anakin.
Ep3 - Obi, Mace, & Palpatine all play fatherly roles to Anakin.
Ep4 - Obi is a father figure to Luke, Han the big brother.
Ep5 - Obi (as a ghost) and Yoda are father figures to Luke. Big daddy reveal
Ep6 - Yoda & Vader are father figures and it's all about the redemption of Dad. Palpatine tries to take over that role and fails.



I'll give you the ghosts, but the fall of the old order is different from the fall of the Jedi. Still though, you're right, ghosts.



Ya, I'd like a spin off but Fett is dead. (EU notwithstanding)

I don't see the relationships above as "father/son" speaking as somebody who lost his father at 10, I had lots of male mentors and teachers, but those are FAR from the dynamics that occur in in a father/son relationship. Obi/Mace/QGJ/Yoda all act as teachers, they don't have a strong enough or close enough relationship to constitute "fatherly", plus the Jedi Order's demand of emotion detatchment would preclude any master having that level of emotional attachment to his pupil.
Palpatine certainly tried to act as a father to Anikin, but purely for his own benefit. I still don't see a Father/son relationship between any of these guys, except mabey for Luke yearning for one in ROTJ. IMO

I think as a spin-off a Fett in-betweenqual would be cool, he couldn't have just been hanging around Jabba's since ESB! :lol

 

[Jeyl]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

MB said LFL has already said the EU is null and void - that's the whole thing, so you can't cherry pick Leia out of it and pretend whatever the books did with her still means anything.

I didn't. I simply said that even if we had spin off stories (which those stories are), that he would most likely discount them. And he did. And to be honest, I don't look at it as discounting the EU continuity, but more along the lines of going in a different direction. After all, if Lucasfilm/Disney was serious about discounting the EU, why are so many of the spin offs still available? Why shouldn't a Star Wars fan prefer one direction over another if both are sanctioned and approved by Lucasfilm?

 

[Jeyl]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

She fights when she has to, but it's really not her arena. She's a political leader, not a front line soldier.

TOTALLY.

 

[Bigdaddy]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

TOTALLY.

gotta say, she looks like a front-line soldier to me :thumbsup, however I think the reference to her as a politician is about her role in the new films.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I didn't. I simply said that even if we had spin off stories (which those stories are), that he would most likely discount them. And he did.

Good God dude I didn't. I merely informed you that LFL did.

I take you off my ignore list for a few weeks and then this crap again...

And to be honest, I don't look at it as discounting the EU continuity, but more along the lines of going in a different direction. After all, if Lucasfilm/Disney was serious about discounting the EU, why are so many of the spin offs still available? Why shouldn't a Star Wars fan prefer one direction over another if both are sanctioned and approved by Lucasfilm?

If a film comes out that contradicts the EU then *IT* will be considered cannon. You can still enjoy the EU but it isn't canon, nor has it ever been.

Now, if LFL and Disney release a spin off that contradicts the EU *IT ALSO* will be considered canon, not the EU.

A spin off with a female lead will be canon if produced by LFL. Period. If sexist fan boys have a problem with that then that's their issue.

As for your argument, I realized long ago that the only scale in which you judge anything is based on how women are portrayed. Forget how great a film is, if the woman in it isn't a self sufficient hero in her own right you don't like it. You're a one trick pony and it's gotten really old.

Leia is a strong, self-sufficient character. Why exactly does she need to be a Jedi? Despite a picture of her motivating troops she is a POLITICAL figure, like her mother. Hell, she's a monarch. Elizabeth the First talked directly to her troops in the face of the Spanish Armada but it doesn't make her a military commander. Yes, she fights in the rebellion. However her path is political.

My only argument regarding her has been that for the continuation of this story you can't have her "all of a sudden" be some kind of Jedi mentoring her daughter in Ep.7. Nothing to imply that's her path is ever put forth on film so it would be jarring to come back to an opening scene of "My brother trained me and now I'm a Jedi".

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

gotta say, she looks like a front-line soldier to me :thumbsup, however I think the reference to her as a politician is about her role in the new films.

THANK YOU. Yes, she fights in the rebellion as a spy, a leader, and even in combat. However her story arc is political. That is her path, not to all of a sudden be a Jedi.

It's part of why I don't want to see her (or Han) in the new one. Sure she can be a Jedi but to see that on screen without the set up would be jarring as those who only have seen the films never see that in her.

Leia & Han should be dead.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Also, for the record:

I don't care for the prequels, but they're cannon. They can't be discounted.

I don't particularly care for the Clone Wars, but they're cannon. They can't be discounted.

 

[Jeyl]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Leia is a strong, self-sufficient character.

Than why can't a female character that meets those descriptions be the lead in a new Star Wars movie?

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Than why can't a female character that meets those descriptions be the lead in a new Star Wars movie?

Because of all of the other reasons I posted that you chose to ignore and put off as "you just want them to have a dick". :thumbsdown

As I said, in any side story by all means. Even make a new trilogy all centred around a female character. All cannon.

I just don't think it works for the continuation of THIS story.

 

[Bigdaddy]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

THANK YOU. Yes, she fights in the rebellion as a spy, a leader, and even in combat. However her story arc is political. That is her path, not to all of a sudden be a Jedi.

It's part of why I don't want to see her (or Han) in the new one. Sure she can be a Jedi but to see that on screen without the set up would be jarring as those who only have seen the films never see that in her.

Leia & Han should be dead.

I wouldn't mind seeing her in a supporting political role, but NOT as a jedi, if her daughter or even grand-daughter (12 ish?) was a jedi or padwan might be pretty cool, and starting with a young character gives lots of room for develpment of the role. Plus seeing little kids kick butt is awesome! thumbsup (did my daughter as Ahsoka a few years ago )
Han should be dead, anything else done would make him look P whipped and pathetic. A Military General? Please, thats not the smuggler we all love, that job would last until the rebellion beat the Empire and he'd be off chasing his next fortune, especially with Jabba out of the way. Maybe Leia makes some veiled reference to her kids about their "no good deadbeat dad and his wookie" :lol but then again.... maybe not.opcorn

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Han should be dead, anything else done would make him look P whipped and pathetic. A Military General? Please, thats not the smuggler we all love, that job would last until the rebellion beat the Empire and he'd be off chasing his next fortune, especially with Jabba out of the way. Maybe Leia makes some veiled reference to her kids about their "no good deadbeat dad and his wookie" :lol but then again.... maybe not.opcorn

Don't know if I'd go so far as to play the "deadbeat dad" card but definitely agree. thumbsup

 

[jme3]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I wouldn't mind seeing her in a supporting political role, but NOT as a jedi, if her daughter or even grand-daughter (12 ish?) was a jedi or padwan might be pretty cool, and starting with a young character gives lots of room for develpment of the role. Plus seeing little kids kick butt is awesome! thumbsup (did my daughter as Ahsoka a few years ago )
Han should be dead, anything else done would make him look P whipped and pathetic. A Military General? Please, thats not the smuggler we all love, that job would last until the rebellion beat the Empire and he'd be off chasing his next fortune, especially with Jabba out of the way. Maybe Leia makes some veiled reference to her kids about their "no good deadbeat dad and his wookie" :lol but then again.... maybe not.opcorn

PLEASE! No more children in Star Wars... There were enough of them in the prequels and they helped make them seem like a kiddie flick! :darnkids:lol

 

[Jeyl]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I just don't think it works for the continuation of THIS story.

A continuation of what story? The father/son issues have been resolved. Anakin is at peace, Obi-Wan has done what he can and Luke is content with his role.

I think we can start something different without relying on what the previous films did.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Great. Then let's not involve anyone from the OT whatsoever, nor their kids.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

A continuation of what story? The father/son issues have been resolved. Anakin is at peace, Obi-Wan has done what he can and Luke is content with his role.

I think we can start something different without relying on what the previous films did.

You really need to sit down and read the last few pages of this thread. If this story was done there wouldn't be a "7,8,9" there would just be a new Star Wars.

7,8,9 will be a continuation of THIS story. That is the implication of continuing the number sequence. Apart from that there will be other Star Wars stories released.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Great. Then let's not involve anyone from the OT whatsoever, nor their kids.

Honestly? I'd prefer this. I'm personally fine with that story being done.

But it will not be so. Therefore my argument.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Here it is. Luke is the new grand master of the Jedi counsel. Leia is on the counsel as well. Han is off being Han, not a general, just doing what he does best with that big walking throw rug of a side kick.

There is a rumor in the new Republic that the Empire is set to resurge. Master Skywalker feels a growing disturbance in the force and has decided to pilgramage to what he believes to be the source of the disturbance.

He takes one of the counsel's star jedi (A female character) and the two of them investigate (With R2 and 3PO of course) Their quest takes them to a small barren world on the outer rim. It appears that there is a new Sith Counsel that has formed, calling themselves the disciples of Vader and are planning to reform the Empire under Sith rule...

Hilarity ensues!

 

[Bigdaddy]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

PLEASE! No more children in Star Wars... There were enough of them in the prequels and they helped make them seem like a kiddie flick! :darnkids:lol

The only kids I remember (besides whats his face :lol) are the ones Anakin (Annie, this bug anybody else?) kills, I'd like to see a padwan potrayed with the fighting style of Hit-girl, and if they got a kid with Chloe Moretz's acting chops, it could launch a really successful trilogy with adults and kids.