Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Nah, they were pretty cool with him being the one, but it would be to dangerous to train him, as he was to old. Luke on the other hand... (I do get that Yoda didnt have many options, but Luke was a really quick learner.)

Actually, the "old" routine can be a test. He's testing the person to see whether he really wants this or is just a flake. The more you struggle to achieve something, the more you prove yourself in the eyes of the master, who is there to put obstacles in your path for you to overcome. It may not be an actual requirement that you cannot be trained after reaching a certain age - sure, the older people get, the less they are willing to have an open mind and embrace new and fantastic things - but I always thought it was a mistake to have Jedi being trained from when they were kids. I was more of the X-Men philosophy that it was something that grew and developed in your teen years and then you had to be lucky a Jedi came by and decided you were worth training in the arts of being Jedi (much like what it sounded like Obi-Wan did with Anakin when he explained things in the OT) and not that it was such an organized, nearly Catholic Church kinda thing.

Found quotes from Lucas saying that balance in the force is no dark side all, as it is like cancer causing unbalance. I guess it makes sense.

Yup. Balance in the body, mind and soul kind of thing. Any negative thoughts bring unbalance and only bring suffering, which is what the Dark Side is. I can sorta follow that line of thinking.

 

[Treadwell]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

...how ELSE can you define 'balance'? Equal weight of X on one side of the scale as Y on the other. Here's the wiki on metaphysical balance:

But X and Y are not defined. Any definition I come up with would be just as unsubstantiated. The film just plain didn't elaborate.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Lucas, as in George Lucas if you didn't read my other post on this, said that BALANCE OF THE FORCE IS AN ABSENCE OF THE DARK SIDE. It can't be any more clearer than that. It's a Jedi prophecy so in their mind no Dark Side is balance. It has absolutely nothing to do with equal numbers. Lucas said Anakin fulfilled the prophecy when he turned back to the light and chucked the Emperor down the shaft.

 

[Jimmer]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I agree that we should have a new enemy, too much time has passed for the Empire to be a legitimate threat.

It has been officially stated that no EU stories will be used, the plot will be original, but I really think Sith need to be involved if for no other reason that, at least to me, lightsaber duels are a main part of Star Wars. Take away the classic blue/green vs red blade saber duel equals not Star Wars.

I realize that isn't plot related as much as special effects, but take away saber duels and I'm out.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Lucas, as in George Lucas if you didn't read my other post on this, said that BALANCE OF THE FORCE IS AN ABSENCE OF THE DARK SIDE. It can't be any more clearer than that. It's a Jedi prophecy so in their mind no Dark Side is balance. It has absolutely nothing to do with equal numbers. Lucas said Anakin fulfilled the prophecy when he turned back to the light and chucked the Emperor down the shaft.

The equal numbers thing struck me as goofy. But then, so did "balance is an absence of the dark side." So, wait. Let me get this straight. Balance is no evil? How is that balance exactly? Isn't that just...good? I suppose if you define balance as having nothing to do with two even quantities of something, then yeah, you could argue that an absence of evil = balance. Of course, you'd have to pull some kind of post-modernist "words have no meaning save that which we ascribe them" hand waive to pull it off, but hey, this series is FULL of hand waives, both literal and abstract.

Frankly, I think the "balance" bit is really only relevant to the prequels and the goofiness they introduced. Neither Yoda nor Ben mention it in the OT. They just talk about destroying the Empire and defeating the Emperor.

My own interpretation was that "balance" was about living in harmony with the universe as a whole, including oneself. The way I see it, both the Jedi in the PT, and the Dark Side users violate that notion in pursuit of some form of unnatural control. The Dark Side seeks to impose control on the external universe, either for the sake of power, or to satisfy some other need (in Anakin, for example, his need to prevent death and loss of loved ones). The Jedi in the PT, though, seek to so control their emotions that they basically deny them altogether. Which, I'd argue, is hardly balanced.

The way I see it, Luke is the first truly balanced Jedi in that regard. He has emotional connections to the rest of the galaxy and life in general, but doesn't let those emotions rule him (once he learns not to be impulsive about them at the cost of his hand). Moreover, he doesn't try to force the galaxy to bend to his will the way his father did. In that sense, he is the truly balanced one.


Not that any of this is really relevant to a Star Wars VII, of course...

 

[batguy]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

"Balance" was not an OT concept but I think it fits well enough. (Unlike midichlorians)

Jedi saber battles are an integral part of SW. But as many others have said, the PT had entirely too much focus on the Jedi. Any new trilogy should not have anywhere near as much of it. The galaxy didn't exactly have a lot of Jedi schools around at the end of the OT.

Heck, the original ANH had only one Jedi battle between Obi & Darth. And that was not even added to the story until well into the development (or even production?) of the movie. Lucas decided that Obi had to be killed instead of just standing around like a dork for the last 1/3rd of the story.

 

[blewis17]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, true believers, given that they are NOT using the EU material, then we all have a wide awakening in 2015

1) Han and Leia NOT necessarily married, and no Jacen, Jaida, Anakin's, etc....
2) No Mara Jade
3) No Grand Admiral Thrawn
4) No Emperor clone (probably a good thing)
5) Fett DID NOT escape the Sarlacc
6) Chewbacca still alive
7) No Rogue Squadron adventures

:wacko

 

[CalMusquez]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

What batguy said. Although there should be a lot more focus on Jedi than there was in the OT (because you would think in a minimum 30 year period, Luke would have at least established a new jedi order and a number of jedi to go along with it) the jedi shouldn't drive the story like it did in the prequels. Any lightsaber battling should be in service to the story, not just fighting for fighting's sake, and should have emotional meanings to them. Also they shouldn't be as fast and complex as they were in the prequels, as these are not Jedi at their full potential. These people were trained by Luke, who by no means was a master of the force. It would take centuries to re-learn everything that was lost with the Jedi in ROTS

 

[seelsa73]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, true believers, given that they are NOT using the EU material, then we all have a wide awakening in 2015

1) Han and Leia NOT necessarily married, and no Jacen, Jaida, Anakin's, etc....
2) No Mara Jade
3) No Grand Admiral Thrawn
4) No Emperor clone (probably a good thing)
5) Fett DID NOT escape the Sarlacc
6) Chewbacca still alive
7) No Rogue Squadron adventures

:wacko

Just because they will be original stories doesn't necessarily mean they wont include characters, places, etc. from the EU, as fan service to those who enjoyed them.

What batguy said. Although there should be a lot more focus on Jedi than there was in the OT (because you would think in a minimum 30 year period, Luke would have at least established a new jedi order and a number of jedi to go along with it) the jedi shouldn't drive the story like it did in the prequels. Any lightsaber battling should be in service to the story, not just fighting for fighting's sake, and should have emotional meanings to them. Also they shouldn't be as fast and complex as they were in the prequels, as these are not Jedi at their full potential. These people were trained by Luke, who by no means was a master of the force. It would take centuries to re-learn everything that was lost with the Jedi in ROTS

30 years is a long time in which to better yourself and come up with some fighting style and practice it until it's second nature. So that's not necessarily true. Jedi are always looking into themselves and the Force seeking all kinds of knowledge.

 

[NAZGÛL]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Actually, the "old" routine can be a test. He's testing the person to see whether he really wants this or is just a flake. The more you struggle to achieve something, the more you prove yourself in the eyes of the master, who is there to put obstacles in your path for you to overcome.

I can definately buy that. And that would explain why they changed their mind in the end of Ep 1.


So is it "balance in the force" before Palpatine started pulling the strings? I mean were Jedis such good guys? Yoda, Mace and the other guys feels power hungry too. Our way or no way. We decide when we want to talk. If you dont do what we feel is right, we pull our lightsabers on you. Manipulating Anakin and others. Often attacking first.

Seems the light and dark side has much in common.

 

[Jeyl]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I cant drop the balance of the force thing. When they found Anakin, they at once said that he would bring balance to the force. And that was before knowing about the Sith threat. So why would the force need balance if there were only Jedis around?

The whole prophecy plot is a prime example of Lucas putting his ideas into a movie without actually knowing what it was himself. This actually ties in to the point you just made in how could the Force be unbalanced if the Jedi didn't even know the Sith existed, even though the prophecy specifically states it's about destroying the Sith.

Obi-Wan: With all due respect master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force?
Mace Windu: So the prophecy says.

And yet in Episode I, Qui-Gon mentions that the Sith have returned after a millenia AND that there is a boy he believes was conceived by the..... medi-chlorians. Two points which happened at the same time should clearly spell out that this prophecy is coming true, and the Jedi don't care about it. Why? Because at the time when Lucas was writing the film, there was no "Sith" element in the prophecy. He just threw that in Episode III after he couldn't think of anything more creative.

Just listen to the original commentaries for Episodes I and II. In Episode I, he says the prophecy will be explored more in Episode II, but it isn't. In Episode II, he said that we would actually find out who deleted the data regarding Kamino and why, but he didn't. In Episode III, he simply says "Just connect the dots". I sure hope whoever directs the next film will really fight George's advice on toning good storytelling down.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

All of which is why I just disregard the whole "prophecy" thing. It's PT crap that only introduced confusion where before things were pretty clear.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

So is it "balance in the force" before Palpatine started pulling the strings? I mean were Jedis such good guys? Yoda, Mace and the other guys feels power hungry too. Our way or no way. We decide when we want to talk. If you dont do what we feel is right, we pull our lightsabers on you. Manipulating Anakin and others. Often attacking first.

Seems the light and dark side has much in common.

Yes, the Jedi were as corrupted as well. They had become fanatics and that is never a good place to be. They believed they were faultless and following the true path, but it just seemed that Qui-Gon was calling their bluff and he set events in motion that ensured that the prophecy would come true - not just for the destruction of the Sith, but for the destruction of what the Jedi order had become: sycophantic, arrogant, manipulative, self-empowered and self important rule riders and following doctrine over the will of the Force. That's usually what happens when an idea or mindset becomes an institution: the message was lost.

 

[NAZGÛL]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

True, and it gives a gray scale to good and evil, something the OT never had. I can appreciate the effort from Lucas, and it is crucial to why Anakin lost track and joined Palpatine.

So, in a way bringing balance to the force is purging the jedi order, who by this time had lost itself.

There is said it was a prophecy written in the original script, a savier for the galaxy (Luke). Lucas evolved it into the chosen one.

 

[Treadwell]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, true believers, given that they are NOT using the EU material, then we all have a wide awakening in 2015

1) Han and Leia NOT necessarily married, and no Jacen, Jaida, Anakin's, etc....
2) No Mara Jade

Definitely no Mara Jade. He hates that character for some reason (as revealed in bonus material for Clone Wars season 3).

 

[Bigdaddy]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Remember what Obi said, its all true "from a certain point of view" :lol

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Remember what Obi said, its all true "from a certain point of view" :lol

Translation: "I'll make **** up if I want to!"

 

[Warpaint]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, it certainly seems that we all still have a lot of Star Wars left in our hearts. It has been very interesting to see the reactions and emotions in this thread - as well as some of the ideas that have apparently been brewing in our minds for years.

I am going to do my best to just let go and ride this train. With that being said, I do honestly hope for an original story with some nods to the soul of the OT.

...if I may make a few requests though:

• Grand Master Luke Skywalker
• A glorious death for Han Solo, which may act as a catalyst for our protagonist(s)
• Rely heavily on Yoda's Dagobah training/wisdom as a guidline on how to portray/convey the Force
• More denizens of the Galaxy - Bothans, Sullustans, new species, etc (remember how you felt the first time you saw the cantina scene? That.)
• Practical sets and FX. Don't be afraid of scale models or kit bashing, either. Please.

 

[seelsa73]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

• Practical sets and FX. Don't be afraid of scale models or kit bashing, either. Please.

I'm one of those rare oddities in the star wars "community" that actually likes Star Wars as a whole and not just the OT. I liked the PT as a whole, but of course i had my gripes, one of which is that last point you made. Too much over-reliance CGI and not enough practical locations, sets, creatures, etc. R2-D2 didn't make a physical appearance even once in Ep III nor did the clones in either II or III. So definitely more practical everything in the ST.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, it certainly seems that we all still have a lot of Star Wars left in our hearts. It has been very interesting to see the reactions and emotions in this thread - as well as some of the ideas that have apparently been brewing in our minds for years.

Yes, THAT to me has been the biggest surprise for me when the news hit. I still WANT Star Wars and am practically as giddy as I was prior to ep1 when that was announced. I did NOT believe I would get to feel that ever again. It's really weird. But it just proves that Star Wars is more than its parts, it's still worth something, and even though I was disappointed by the PT my enjoyment of Star Wars wasn't ruined - it's still very much alive. And this time... knowing that... I know that regardless of whether I'll like these new movies or not, I'll still LOVE Star Wars!

Very strange... and very cool.