Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[cboath]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Trying to think from georges perspective....

I'd think an integral part of 7-9 would mirror 1-3. That being, distrust and manipulation of the republic let it be taken over by evil in 1-3. In 7-9, a similar set of circumstances would likely be unfolding and the issue would be, can the sides put differences aside and not go into another civil war but trust each other to the point of forming a new republic.
That new republic represents a perceived/real threat to <insert new villain> and that's your new plotline.

Subplots of jedi and jedi mistrust, different levels of mistrust among systems, 3rd parties playing their own ends, fate of the empire, etc, can all be easily interwoven.

 

[jcoffman99]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

More trade disputes!!
More politics!!

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I both do and don't like that idea. On the one hand it's true that there was a Force-user controlling the galaxy for 23 years and his right-hand man is a less powerful but just as ruthless Force-user as well. I would be pretty hesitant myself...if I knew about it. Chances are, i would think, the people of the galaxy had no idea either of them knew how to use the Force, as Palapatine used his considerable influence with the general population in order to turn the public against the Jedi. Why would he then turn around and announce that he, too, could use the Force? It would be bad tactical planning, and after having been so brilliant in his manipulations to gain control, i doubt he would be so stupid as to do that.

But if you did go that route, you would need to add an element of danger that only the Jedi could possibly handle in order to show the public that having Jedi around again is in their best interests. And when the Jedi beat that threat, they will be celebrated again as heroes and saviors.

Come to think of it, after having written all this, it could be a great idea. guess we will see.

Well, I was thinking that the news of Palpatine being a Force user would come out after his fall. He certainly doesn't seem interested in revealing that fact to anyone - not even his own military, as they refer to Vader as a remnant of an ancient religion they helped destroy. So clearly, the Empire at large, perhaps the whole galaxy doesn't know Palpatine is a force user until it will likely come out after his fall. However... Luke was the only one witnessing it, and would it be in his interest to share that info?

This shouldn't be the main threat. I just thought it could be a nice separate threat to the whole establishing the new Jedi Order. You need more than one threat to the main threat. The fail of the PT was not showing the "public" and their reactions to what was going on. It would have been in Palpatine's best interest to have the general public side with him more than politicians. In any of the prequels did we ever see any jealousy, resentment or even hate towards the Jedi from joe public... and we never saw a physical manifestation of the fact that the galaxy was in a civil war - whenever you saw joe public it was pretty much business as usual. There was no unemployment, no food or electricity or fuel shortage, there was nothing to show that anyone was actually suffering from the war.

In the OT, no matter where you went, there was always that threat that the Empire would take over and shut everything down. You felt the oppression even when the Empire was nowhere around. Even on Tattooine the galactic civil war had an affect.

You need the reaction of the outside world to what is going on, to really drive home the power and threat of those seeking to control everyone and everything.

And with the rise of the Jedi... yes... it would make much more sense that they would need and have to prove their worth in the new republic. They have to restore the public perception of them as peacekeepers, not as meddling, power hungry, elitist warrior monks, who will use their powers to manipulate and deceive people into doing their bidding.

 

[Contec]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Only two of those were from RotJ, but let's just focus on the first movie, shall we?

Theres a dog-man and a trashcan robot, neither of which speak english -- leaving their partners to perform a vaudvillian one-sided telephone act with any conversation -- a princess with funny hair, a walking iron lung for a bad guy, a gold plated dandy and a farmer brat that both never stop whining.

Why are you talking about ThumbWars?
thumb wars - YouTube

 

[Treadwell]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

What's with the assumption that "balance to the Force" means equal strength/numbers between Sith and Jedi?

It isn't necessarily about good and evil. Balance could mean a number of things.

 

[CalMusquez]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Just thought of something. The new trilogy should be about the struggles that come with setting up a new government after the fall of the empire. Even though it was officially the "civil war" in the OT, it was really more of a Revolutionary war. The war taking place in the new trilogy should be more of a civil war. The jedi and various other groups fighting for power in the galaxy.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'm guessing most of the EU suck crowd read a few books they didn't like and gave up. There are MANY EU book series that were better than the Prequels. Republic Commando, X-Wing Rogue Sqd., X-Wing Wraith Sqd., I, Jedi, Zahn Trilogy, etc.

Dark Empire was horrible. They have Luke go to the Dark Side, c'mon. He stood up to the most powerful Sith Lord in 1,000 years, but then, that same Emperor is cloned, and Luke gives in. I guess it takes two offers before Luke rolls over. Oh and the new Emperor has three more super weapons because the two Death Stars worked great the first two times! Yawn.

Again I'm not rooting for ANY EU stories.

 

[NAZGÛL]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

What, you dont like this?

:lol For some reason I like this design...


I have a strong feeling we will get Sith in the new films. It would be a way to connect the films and they are great villains that feels SW.

What I hope for in this film, is that they get it close and personal. There were to many huge scenarios in the prequels. The old ones managed to keep a close feeling even when the battles were big. (Except the ROTJ DS2 attack, wich were something of a mess...)

 

[Treadwell]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

What, you dont like this?

NO! :lol
I couldn't stand Dark Empire. The existence of Emperor clones takes the wind out of Anakin's turn/sacrifice at the end of ROTJ. And, although it isn't its fault, it was written during the later days of when there was no LFL oversight over the entirety of the EU, and by the time they decided to publish it, a lot of continuity wrangling had to be done to it (in the form of captions) and other EU material to make it all fit together. That is why, in EU canon, the Imperial Remnant retook Coruscant TWICE during the years immediately after ROTJ.

And I can't stand the idiocy of the "good Jedi decides to better understand the Dark Side, he should switch to it, but only temporarily, for realzies, he can resist it, oops, he's corrupted, we're all screwed" plot. How stupid does a Jedi have to be to think that's going to work. And the EU uses it OVER AND OVER. Luke, his disciples, a couple of Tales of the Old Republic dudes in the comics...

And I didn't like the limited color palate of the comic, but that's just me. I did like a few of the covers, though--there was one with a convincing interpretation of a young Emperor.

 

[Jeyl]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Dark Empire had this.

My favorite Star Destroyer design.

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Dark Empire had a lot of doofy stuff. I thought it was...eh...ok. Same for its sequels. Nothing special, just another entry into the continuity (assuming you consider it canon).

Then again, so did the EU books, like Kyp Durron and the Sun Crusher.


This is the reason why I think the Zahn Thrawn trilogy was simply the best stuff to come out in the last 20 years. It captured the feel of the original films, but didn't rely on hackneyed things like yet-another-super-weapon plot points. It had force-wielding villains, but didn't rely on them exclusively, and had a far more important, and charismatic, bad guy who was just really smart and really good at what he did. It had betrayal, intrigue, humor, action, etc.

Obviously, at this point, it can't be filmed as a live-action thing. But that, in my opinion, should be the touchstone for any further films as far as tone and execution are concerned, rather than just "Throw more Jedi at the problem" and "Let's have the imperial remnant make a giant superweapon."

 

[rodneyfaile]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Spaceball One brakes for nobody.

 

[cboath]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, I was thinking that the news of Palpatine being a Force user would come out after his fall. He certainly doesn't seem interested in revealing that fact to anyone - not even his own military, as they refer to Vader as a remnant of an ancient religion they helped destroy. So clearly, the Empire at large, perhaps the whole galaxy doesn't know Palpatine is a force user until it will likely come out after his fall. However... Luke was the only one witnessing it, and would it be in his interest to share that info?

This shouldn't be the main threat. I just thought it could be a nice separate threat to the whole establishing the new Jedi Order. You need more than one threat to the main threat. The fail of the PT was not showing the "public" and their reactions to what was going on. It would have been in Palpatine's best interest to have the general public side with him more than politicians. In any of the prequels did we ever see any jealousy, resentment or even hate towards the Jedi from joe public... and we never saw a physical manifestation of the fact that the galaxy was in a civil war - whenever you saw joe public it was pretty much business as usual. There was no unemployment, no food or electricity or fuel shortage, there was nothing to show that anyone was actually suffering from the war.

In the OT, no matter where you went, there was always that threat that the Empire would take over and shut everything down. You felt the oppression even when the Empire was nowhere around. Even on Tattooine the galactic civil war had an affect.

You need the reaction of the outside world to what is going on, to really drive home the power and threat of those seeking to control everyone and everything.

And with the rise of the Jedi... yes... it would make much more sense that they would need and have to prove their worth in the new republic. They have to restore the public perception of them as peacekeepers, not as meddling, power hungry, elitist warrior monks, who will use their powers to manipulate and deceive people into doing their bidding.

Well, in regards to the emperor there, i think that the admirals/moffs/etc saying vader was all that was left of their ancient religion was more due to the fact that Lucas just had 'an emperor' at that point and hadn't flushed out his backstory as a sith master who flipped vader to the dark side (like a tool). He was just 'the emperor'. It's easy to revise that to mean he hid it from them still, but i doubt it was the original reason for that line at all.

 

[NAZGÛL]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I cant drop the balance of the force thing. When they found Anakin, they at once said that he would bring balance to the force. And that was before knowing about the Sith threat. So why would the force need balance if there were only Jedis around?

 

[rodneyfaile]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I cant drop the balance of the force thing. When they found Anakin, they at once said that he would bring balance to the force. And that was before knowing about the Sith threat. So why would the force need balance if there were only Jedis around?

They misinterpreted the prophecy. There were too many jedis and too few siths. Anakin certainly helped take care of that one.

Hopefully VII, VIII, and IX have better writing.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, in regards to the emperor there, i think that the admirals/moffs/etc saying vader was all that was left of their ancient religion was more due to the fact that Lucas just had 'an emperor' at that point and hadn't flushed out his backstory as a sith master who flipped vader to the dark side (like a tool). He was just 'the emperor'. It's easy to revise that to mean he hid it from them still, but i doubt it was the original reason for that line at all.

Sure. I still think it fits better that he didn't go around flashing the fact that he was a force user to everyone and nobody.

I cant drop the balance of the force thing. When they found Anakin, they at once said that he would bring balance to the force. And that was before knowing about the Sith threat. So why would the force need balance if there were only Jedis around?

A prophecy doesn't care about unknown or known facts. The prophecy stated he would bring balance - they were doubtful, both to the fact that he was the person the prophecy spoke of and the because of the fact that, according to them, the Sith were no more. The mere thought that he was the boy of the prophecy would be a world-shattering revelation to them.

 

[Treadwell]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

They misinterpreted the prophecy. There were too many jedis and too few siths.

Again, there is nothing in the phrase "balance to the force" that implies there needs to be a equal number of sith and jedi. Nothing.

 

[NAZGÛL]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

They misinterpreted the prophecy. There were too many jedis and too few siths. Anakin certainly helped take care of that one.

Hopefully VII, VIII, and IX have better writing.

Damn. He did actually do that... Ben and Yoda vs Palpatine and Vader. Yay for force balance. :cheers

Then Luke came along and unbalanced it all... We need one sith in the new film to find new balance. :lol

 

[Timmythekid]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, in regards to the emperor there, i think that the admirals/moffs/etc saying vader was all that was left of their ancient religion was more due to the fact that Lucas just had 'an emperor' at that point and hadn't flushed out his backstory as a sith master who flipped vader to the dark side (like a tool). He was just 'the emperor'. It's easy to revise that to mean he hid it from them still, but i doubt it was the original reason for that line at all.

What sticks out in my mind about the novelization of SW, is that the Emperor was only nominally in control. He was actually installed as an utterly ineffectual, impotent puppet by the various Moffs and bureaucrats who got him elected ("you don't VOTE for Kings!") for precisely that reason.

Again, there is nothing in the phrase "balance to the force" that implies there needs to be a equal number of sith and jedi. Nothing.

...how ELSE can you define 'balance'? Equal weight of X on one side of the scale as Y on the other. Here's the wiki on metaphysical balance:

" a point between two opposite forces that is desirable over purely one state or the other, such as a balance between the metaphysical Law and Chaos — law by itself being overly controlling, chaos being overly unmanageable, balance being the point that minimizes the negatives of both."

Any talk about the Sith 'misusing' the Force and we aren't talking about 'balance' any more. Maybe we're talking about stopping the perversion of the Force. Whatever, that's not balance. Possibly we're not talking about equal numbers of Sith and Jedi, but we're still talking about comparing the number or strength of Jedi against...something. Balance is balance - something perfectly weighted against something else.

 

[NAZGÛL]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

A prophecy doesn't care about unknown or known facts. The prophecy stated he would bring balance - they were doubtful, both to the fact that he was the person the prophecy spoke of and the because of the fact that, according to them, the Sith were no more. The mere thought that he was the boy of the prophecy would be a world-shattering revelation to them.

Nah, they were pretty cool with him being the one, but it would be to dangerous to train him, as he was to old. Luke on the other hand... (I do get that Yoda didnt have many options, but Luke was a really quick learner.)

Found quotes from Lucas saying that balance in the force is no dark side all, as it is like cancer causing unbalance. I guess it makes sense.