Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[seelsa73]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Before you jump down my throat with this, yes i know the new trilogy is not beholden to the EU novels, but the way Lando and Leia's characters are handled in them are proof that politics is not the ONLY path that Leia can ever possibly walk and that Lando is a far better businessman than a politician. the progression of these characters and the others in the EU have always felt quite natural, if not always the situations depicted. So no Leia does not necessarily still have to be involved in politics and Han and Leia don't have to have parted ways in order for these characters to be relevant and interesting.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Before you jump down my throat with this, yes i know the new trilogy is not beholden to the EU novels, but the way Lando and Leia's characters are handled in them are proof that politics is not the ONLY path that Leia can ever possibly take and that Lando is a far better businessman than a politician. the progression of these characters and the others in the EU have always felt quite natural, if not always the situations depicted. So no Leia does not necessarily still have to be involved in politics and Han and Leia don't have to have parted ways in order for these characters to be relevant and interesting.

No jumping on you at all and I never said that was her only possible path. I just felt that the EU's treatment of Leia was fan service and not the path her character would take based on the OT. She's a natural political leader and the demands on her to fill that capacity in the New Republic would be huge. So far as Lando goes I agree, a better business man, and he'd be a crooked politician I have no doubt. But I do think his aspirations would be political.

Just a personal preference of course but that's how I see it. Could it be interesting otherwise? Sure. I think though for this film to have any chance of being GOOD they should follow a more natural progression based on their characters solely pulling from the OT which would indicate Han eventually leaves (this one is debatable but there is nothing in the OT that suggests that he's any kind of permanent relationship material and his character is weakened by doing otherwise IMHO) and Leia proceeds as a leader in the new political system.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah, I would agree. Although I enjoy the portrayal of Leia as a Jedi Knight in the EU, it's nit what I would have considered her character trajectory post ROTJ. I thinkher arc is better served having her be the politician as opposed to the warrior.

 

[jme3]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Even though Leia is a child of the force just like Luke, and Luke himself suggests that in time she'd learn to use her powers, I somehow don't see any of that as being of interest to Leia. Not only because of her overwhelming connection to and involvement with the political process, but she had such disdain for Vader that I think she'd somehow see "the force" as too much of a connection to someone she detested and she'd rather not have a part in it. It's a different story for Luke, of course, since that was his destiny all along, but I don't think it fits with Leia.

 

[seelsa73]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I completely disagree with that...she's had more than enough time to come to terms with her lineage and to come to realize that the Jedi can evolve beyond that with her brother at the helm. Let's compromise...she can be a fully trained jedi representative of the government and be directly involved with politics that way.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I will speculate this, if Arndt is keeping any of the supposed GL story lines intact, I highly doubt GL would have made Leia a Jedi.

 

[seelsa73]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Before you jump down my throat with this, yes i know the new trilogy is not beholden to the EU novels...

No jumping on you at all...

I wasn't referring to you specifically, but people on these boards tend to jump on that kind of stuff without thinking, so i wanted to at least attempt to cover myself.

- - - Updated - - -

I will speculate this, if Arndt is keeping any of the supposed GL story lines intact, I highly doubt GL would have made Leia a Jedi.

I disagree with that...otherwise why would he have gone out of his way to mention that in time she would learn to use it as Luke has?

 

[jme3]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I disagree with that...otherwise why would he have gone out of his way to mention that in time she would learn to use it as Luke has?

GL has been all over the place with this story... The entire cast at one point were going to be midgets, or little people, so anything at all is possible in George's mind. But as the story ultimately panned out and "finished" with Ep.VI, Leia Organa is most definitely not a Jedi, but a diplomat-turned-Rebel. Her roots are in politics, and it's a stretch to see her as anything but a politician. That's, of course, only my opinion...

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Not me. She'd been involved in politics her entire life, it's her path. Her and Lando are the only ones that make sense to be politicians. Let them take that role. Leave the Jedi stuff for the next generation.

She's already been set up to be a Jedi. Luke tells her in time she will learn to use the Force. I seriously doubt that Leia, who's whole life is about duty, would turn down the chance to help Luke rebuild the Jedi. Plus during her time in the Rebellion she's been a lot more of a fighter than a politician anyway.

 

[rodneyfaile]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The Jedi mind trick would be very usefull to a politician.

 

[Daric LaRone]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I hope Chewie is in!

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I wasn't referring to you specifically, but people on these boards tend to jump on that kind of stuff without thinking, so i wanted to at least attempt to cover myself.

I know. I was just making sure that you didn't think I was jumping on you there. Just friendly debate!

I disagree with that...otherwise why would he have gone out of his way to mention that in time she would learn to use it as Luke has?

He didn't really go out of his way, he mentioned it as a form of encouragement should he not return. At least that's how I saw it.

I seriously doubt that Leia, who's whole life is about duty, would turn down the chance to help Luke rebuild the Jedi. Plus during her time in the Rebellion she's been a lot more of a fighter than a politician anyway.

I disagree completely. Her whole life is about duty and the task of rebuilding the Jedi is already filled by Luke. Far more important a task, and one in which she is better equipped, is to rebuild the republic. I think her sense of duty would draw her to that more than the Jedi.

As for "more of a fighter than a politician" I again, disagree.

EP4 - She's a spy using her diplomatic status as a cover. She then gets captured and, aside from a few shots in the detention corridor, her part in all battles was that of a "telling other people what to do" capacity. Sounds like a politician to me. A politician that can handle herself in a fight, sure, but a politician.

EP5 - The extent of her fighting is making a motivational speech to the troops as they flee. Politician all the way in this film.

EP6 - This one bucks the trend but I credit that to two reasons: One, her love interest needs help. Two, it's the final push for the rebellion. EVERYONE is involved no matter what the role because this is the battle that could end it all. She chooses to fight with her closest friends.

 

[Zombie_61]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The Jedi mind trick would be very usefull to a politician.

I can't see Leia being dishonestly manipulative in that way, but I would think the ability to use the pseudo-psychic aspects of The Force to determine your opponents' true motives in a debate would give her a tremendous advantage. Who says she can't be both a Jedi and a politician?

 

[seelsa73]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Who says she can't be both a Jedi and a politician?

thumbsup:thumbsup

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Who says she can't be both a Jedi and a politician?

There's nothing to say she can't dabble in the force but the impression given is that being a Jedi is a lifelong devotion thing and a huge commitment. I can't see her being both myself.

I guess we'll see in 2015!

 

[Darth Lars]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I would like to see her as a politician first and foremost, but to get a glance at her lightsaber at a shelf in the background or hung from her belt in some scene.

There's nothing to say she can't dabble in the force but the impression given is that being a Jedi is a lifelong devotion thing and a huge commitment. I can't see her being both myself.

I think that while that was certainly the case in the prequel trilogy, it does not have to be that way in Luke's new Jedi Order.

 

[The Terminator]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I hope Chewie is in!

He better be! RAAAAAaaawwwr
We love that big walking carpet

 

[rodneyfaile]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

There's nothing to say she can't dabble in the force but the impression given is that being a Jedi is a lifelong devotion thing and a huge commitment. I can't see her being both myself.

I guess we'll see in 2015!

Looking at all 6 movies... I know, just stick with me... Lol

... the impression that I got was that the Jedi were pretty much wrong about everything, and that is why they fell. Luke came along and challenged some of what Ben and Yoda were saying. He ignored the false dichotomy of light and dark, and made his own path. Kinda like Neo in Matrix Reloaded. So in a way, he brought balance to the force. At least that's how the version in my head is.

So I'm guessing the structure of what it means to be a Jedi will be very different with Luke, as opposed to the Jedi ignoring Anakin's desires to check in on his mother. Discipline and focus but not militant, less political meddling, with just a dash of don't mess with me because I have a little dark side.

 

[The Terminator]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Wait what? I thought Anakin did that at the end of ROTJ by returning to the light side....

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Looking at all 6 movies... I know, just stick with me... Lol

... the impression that I got was that the Jedi were pretty much wrong about everything, and that is why they fell. Luke came along and challenged some of what Ben and Yoda were saying. He ignored the false dichotomy of light and dark, and made his own path. Kinda like Neo in Matrix Reloaded. So in a way, he brought balance to the force. At least that's how the version in my head is.

So I'm guessing the structure of what it means to be a Jedi will be very different with Luke, as opposed to the Jedi ignoring Anakin's desires to check in on his mother. Discipline and focus but not militant, less political meddling, with just a dash of don't mess with me because I have a little dark side.

Lucas, I believe, is on record saying that Luke (or Anakin?) brought "balance to the Force" by killing the Emperor and defeating the Sith. I'm not entirely sure how that creates "balance" exactly, but that's what the dude said.

Personally, I always leaned more towards your explanation. Anakin was thought to be the chosen one who'd bring balance, and in a sense he is by siring Luke. The Jedi in the Old Republic were too unemotional, which ultimately led to their blindness, while the Sith were entirely dominated by unregulated passion. Anakin was ill-suited to the Old Republic Jedi Order's approach because he felt uncontrollable passions and used that to focus his Force use. Obi-Wan and Yoda, I think in conference with Qui-Gon (who was himself closer to this method) shifted their methods and focus when training Luke, to get him to FEEL the Force more (emotionally speaking), but still stay with the Light Side. The defeat of the emperor didn't bring balance to the Force, but Luke's approach to it was the more balanced (if also more risky and difficult) approach. Emotions would no longer be shunned, and the Jedi would be taught to deal with their emotions and both control and respond to them in a way that wouldn't lead to the Dark Side. That's a big part of why Luke fails at the cave -- he gives into his fear and strikes in anger. It's also what the Emperor was counting on when he had Luke confront Vader -- he figured he could get Luke to turn and become his pupil just as Anakin had.

Wait what? I thought Anakin did that at the end of ROTJ by returning to the light side....

The real problem is that Lucas introduced this notion of some prophecy and a "Chosen One" into the prequels and then didn't bother to elaborate on it at all, while simultaneously trying to shoehorn it (like so many other things) into the framework that the OT had established. It doesn't really work, and requires a lot of post hoc explanation, because the actual flow of the movies themselves doesn't show it.