Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)

[Bryancd]

Look you have corrected me a few times when I was completely wrong and I have accepted it with relative grace . all I am saying is I wish you would stop acting like you have script approval .

hey, you know I like you and let's go Cards!

 

[astroboy]

As far as too many things being connected, there's two ideas here.

For me, these are chapters in an ongoing saga. A space opera.

So there are elements of good and evil who should be connected. That's the opera part.
The jedi, the sith...

But there are also characters who should enter the stage and then leave gracefully. These people stumbled into the saga. This is han solo and boba fett. The Droids.

We don't really need to ever see these people before it was their time to enter the story. They will have to be very careful if they do stand alone movies about these people.

It's for these reasons that bringing back Darth plagius would work well, but Yoda hanging out with chewie in the prequels doesn't.

Showing more of the Hutt clan creates a more developed galaxy, but making anakin the creator of threepio is claustrophobic.

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[oota goota]

I'm just growing tired of everything in the Star Wars universe having to be connected, related, or tied somehow to something else in the Star Wars universe. They did it in The Clone Wars, they're doing it in Star Wars Rebels, and it's getting ridiculous. Okay, The Force Awakens has established the connection to the previous movies; it's time to move on and find some new ground to cover.

THIS! New stuff!

 

[annanake]

hey, you know I like you and let's go Cards!

LOL the only reason I care about an AZ Cards win is half price drinks at sonic but funny enough the St Louis Cards are my team since birth .
So I'll take it !

 

[Reelo]

I'm trying to find out what the callsigns for the X-Wing pilots are. I know Poe is Black Leader (though no Black Squadron exists, he leads both Red and Blue into battle) and Jess "Testor" Pava is Blue Three. Temmin "Snap" Wexley is also with Blue Squadron (as is Ello Asty), but I couldn't find his exact designation.
No Idea about Nien Nunb either.
Apparently Resistance Starfighter Corps consists of the following squadrons:
Blue
Red
Cobalt
Coalstreak
Stiletto
Dagger.
Only Red and Blue appear on screen though Nien Nunb must have been assigned to Coalstreak at one time, because the Visual Dictionary shows the black stripes on his helmet designate him as a Coalstreak Squadron member.

I'm trying to design shirt artwork for the pilots like this one that I've made already

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[Axlotl]

The color-coded call signs should refer to flights within a squadron, not the squadron themselves.
A squadron would be broken up into elements (usually 4 planes each) for tactical advantage and ease of communication.
For example: White flight might be the lead element; Blue and Red the left and right flanks; Green flight high cover; Gold flight low cover; etc.
So if Gold One says "Gold One taking fire", the squadron knows they're being attacked from below.

I don't know how this got so confused in the Star Wars universe.
EU writers who didn't know any better, I suppose.

 

[Solo4114]

The color-coded call signs should refer to flights within a squadron, not the squadron themselves.
A squadron would be broken up into elements (usually 4 planes each) for tactical advantage and ease of communication.
For example: White flight might be the lead element; Blue and Red the left and right flanks; Green flight high cover; Gold flight low cover; etc.
So if Gold One says "Gold One taking fire", the squadron knows they're being attacked from below.

I don't know how this got so confused in the Star Wars universe.
EU writers who didn't know any better, I suppose.

Mostly it's that Lucas -- and then subsequent writers -- was probably completely unfamiliar with this approach to flight combat, let alone distinctions between what constitutes a "wing" vs. a "group" vs. a "squadron" vs a "ship."

In ANH, Red Leader says "All wings, report in." Then each individual pilot reports in (and apparently, not in any particular order, either -- since Luke, Red 5, reports in last -- and after Red 11, who reported in before Red 6).

In ESB, the snowspeeders are referred to as "Rogue Group" rather than Rogue Squadron.

In ROTJ, they're "Red Squadron," but Gold Leader (Lando) apparently has overall command of the fighters. Moreover, in ROTJ, the "squadrons" often involve a mix of different starfighters with different roles. So, Red 2 is in an A-wing, but Red Leader and Red 5 are in X-wings. Lando is in the Falcon, but there are also apparently X-wings and Y-wings in the group. Meanwhile, Green Squadron is made up exclusively of A-wings, while Gray Squadron is made up of Y-wings and B-wings.

Now, I get that they want to give the sense of the Rebels being kind of a ragtag fleet, but this stuff makes zero sense.

As I understand it, in most modern militaries, squadrons are made up of exclusively a single type of craft, and their mission roles are restricted to just what those craft are capable of doing. So, sure, if you fly multirole fighters, it'd make sense that your squadron would be able to perform the roles for which those fighters can be used. But there's no reason to have a squadron that is made up of two different kinds of craft, when one has a very limited mission profile.

All of this is to say that I don't think you can take anything depicted on screen (or worse, described in EU novels) as representing any kind of clear understanding of how a military organization might work.

 

[Riceball]

My problem with the notion of Snoke being this all new, disconnected from everything, incredibly powerful figure is: Where the heck has he been all this time? Why has he only surfaced now (or relatively recently)? At least if he were Plagueis, the answer would be more readily understandable (trying to physically re-manifest himself from the ether of death or somesuch).

This sort of thing happens all the time in real life, there's plenty of precedence for it. Take Hitler for example, one of the most infamous dictators the world has ever known yet he came up from complete obscurity, until the aftermath of WW I and the birth of the Nazi party Adolf Hitler wasn't active in politics, and was only a Corporal in the Army.

 

[Solo4114]

This sort of thing happens all the time in real life, there's plenty of precedence for it. Take Hitler for example, one of the most infamous dictators the world has ever known yet he came up from complete obscurity, until the aftermath of WW I and the birth of the Nazi party Adolf Hitler wasn't active in politics, and was only a Corporal in the Army.

And before that, a failed artist.

 

[Wolfsburg]

The difference is Hitler was a young man when he started making a scene in the 1920s. Between his youth and time in the army, he hadn't had time or cause to do much before the 20s. Why has Snoke waited for decades or even centuries (millennia?) before doing anything? If he was that powerful, one would thing someone would've noticed. If he had simply been born during or after the fall of the Empire I could understand why he hadn't made a play, but he's apparently been around for a long time as a totally unnoticed, incredibly powerful darksider. At least if he had been Plagueis, he'd been busy being dead and trying to come back and before then was busy studying the mysteries of life. I'm just curious to see what they have planned for Snoke.

 

[Riceball]

Now, I get that they want to give the sense of the Rebels being kind of a ragtag fleet, but this stuff makes zero sense.

As I understand it, in most modern militaries, squadrons are made up of exclusively a single type of craft, and their mission roles are restricted to just what those craft are capable of doing. So, sure, if you fly multirole fighters, it'd make sense that your squadron would be able to perform the roles for which those fighters can be used. But there's no reason to have a squadron that is made up of two different kinds of craft, when one has a very limited mission profile.

All of this is to say that I don't think you can take anything depicted on screen (or worse, described in EU novels) as representing any kind of clear understanding of how a military organization might work.

You're completely correct, modern military (fixed wing) aircraft squadrons are always completely homogenous, there's no mixing of aircraft type within a squadron. In the USAF, fighter squadrons are composed entirely of fighters and always the same type, so a squadron that flies F-15s would have only F-15s in their squadron and no F-16s, or even F-22s. I'm pretty sure that this has to do with simplifying things all around, mission planners know exactly what each squadron is capable of, training becomes easier, it helps immensely with logistics, and it makes maintenance more efficient since the squadron's maintainers would only have one aircraft type to work on instead of 2 or 3.

 

[glunark]

Who says Snoke is that powerful?

For thousands of years the jedi created order in the galaxy, then the Sith killed them all, and a new jedi came and killed the sith. (or convinced one sith to kill the other sith, whatever).

Then there was a power vacuum, all there was, was Luke, if we go by the films then Luke wasn't as strong as Yoda, and Yoda couldn't defeat the emperor, Vader managed it by catching him by surprise, while shouting Nooooooooooooo which Palpy somehow never noticed (thanks special edition).

So we have one jedi in the galaxy, teaching a new generation of youngsters to be Jedi,

For the first time in thousands of years, mid level strength force users are unopposed, Snoke doesn't have to be stronger than Luke, he just needed to be smarter, to break his heart by killing his students while turning his most promising one to the dark side.

With Luke abandoning the force, the dark side unbalances the force, until a new light side user is created, in Rey.

Is Rey more powerful than Snoke? Is Luke? We don't know, we haven't seen them fight, but anyone who projects himself thirty foot high is probably compensating for something.

 

[Axlotl]

Not only are squadrons homogenous, the groups they belong to also are.

 

[annanake]

Hitler also did not have the same background, theme music , basic physical apperance and " magical powers " as say Kaiser Wilhelm . also was not a fictional character ( unfortunately )who was written that way . yet himself foreshadowed everything he eventually did in a book no one bothered to read and or believe .

 

[Solo4114]

To be fair, I'm not overly concerned with how realistically Star Wars' fighter command is organized. Certainly for this film, there wasn't even all that much time spent on the starfighter action. More like cutting back and forth between ground and air combat, like at the end of ROTJ.

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Hitler also did not have the same background, theme music , basic physical apperance and " magical powers " as say Kaiser Wilhelm . also was not a fictional character ( unfortunately )who was written that way . yet himself foreshadowed everything he eventually did in a book no one bothered to read and or believe .

Fine.

Let's assume it's Plagueis.


Now what?

Will that enhance your enjoyment of the films, or diminish them? Or will it have no effect at all?

Do you think it will make the story better, worse, or not really have any practical effect?

 

[astroboy]

To be fair, I'm not overly concerned with how realistically Star Wars' fighter command is organized. Certainly for this film, there wasn't even all that much time spent on the starfighter action. More like cutting back and forth between ground and air combat, like at the end of ROTJ.

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Fine.

Let's assume it's Plagueis.


Now what?

Will that enhance your enjoyment of the films, or diminish them? Or will it have no effect at all?

Do you think it will make the story better, worse, or not really have any practical effect?

For me, it will tie things together a bit. I still subscribe to this being space opera and I hate the idea of this movie being a soft reboot. I like it acknowledging the history that we learned during the clone era. (crappy films, but great world building)

I don't think that we need to harp on the prequels, but to dismiss them seems too calculated. I would have no problem if Kylo Ren was using Mustafar as a base for the knights of Ren. I do think that it would add to the scope of the story

 

[annanake]

When I first heard the Plagueis theory I was at 35% that's where they were going with snoke then after all the similarity's one after the other I'm at 75% if Lucas was writing it I would be at 99% but I don't trust the writers to to not be purposely giggling a false birdy at us to look at while they sneek up behind .

To me the music is the best evidence to support it . I mean they give everyone there own music that is how has always been.

the only two reasons to give snoke the theme music that was only played once before while discussing Plagueis is they are the same person or they want us to think he is the same person .
Or I guess they could have just " phoned it in" like they seemed to do with the squad color designations Lol. but I give Williams more credit than that.

Anyway you think Rey will stick with the staff style weapon ? I hope so . maybe even two different color blades like in some of the concept art .

 

[Wolfsburg]

Who says Snoke is that powerful?

For thousands of years the jedi created order in the galaxy, then the Sith killed them all, and a new jedi came and killed the sith. (or convinced one sith to kill the other sith, whatever).

Then there was a power vacuum, all there was, was Luke, if we go by the films then Luke wasn't as strong as Yoda, and Yoda couldn't defeat the emperor, Vader managed it by catching him by surprise, while shouting Nooooooooooooo which Palpy somehow never noticed (thanks special edition).

So we have one jedi in the galaxy, teaching a new generation of youngsters to be Jedi,

For the first time in thousands of years, mid level strength force users are unopposed, Snoke doesn't have to be stronger than Luke, he just needed to be smarter, to break his heart by killing his students while turning his most promising one to the dark side.

With Luke abandoning the force, the dark side unbalances the force, until a new light side user is created, in Rey.

Is Rey more powerful than Snoke? Is Luke? We don't know, we haven't seen them fight, but anyone who projects himself thirty foot high is probably compensating for something.

Well Palpatine projected himself as oversized too and he was very powerful so I wouldn't read too much into the size of the hologram. I guess Snoke could be a galactic Rick Moranis...but that'd be pretty underwhelming, frankly. Hilarious but underwhelming. To be clear, I don't think Snoke is Plagueis at this point but that would've been a nice tie-in with a previously mentioned character that indirectly had some relevance and to see Palpatine's master would've been neat in my book. They have a logical, built in lead-in to his presence in the ST if they wanted to go that way.

 

[annanake]

To be fair, I'm not overly concerned with how realistically Star
Wars' fighter command is organized. Certainly for this film, there wasn't even all that much time spent on the starfighter action. More like cutting back and forth between ground and air combat, like at the end of ROTJ.

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Fine.

Let's assume it's Plagueis.


Now what?

Will that enhance your enjoyment of the films, or diminish them? Or will it have no effect at all?

Do you think it will make the story better, worse, or not really have any practical effect?

As far as enjoyment of the film it would make sense to me with all the seemingly foreshadowing.
better than nope he is just snoke he spent the last 873 years in accounting and when the empire fell finally decided to use his skills in the darkside to grab power turn the youngest in the skywalker bloodline to make him my apprentice and finally distroy the republic !

Now if they came up with a believable story then fine.

Kind of like the Rey backstory it better make sense !
They could just be going completely sideways who knows the force just found two random people Snoke and Rey O.K. you two are the new bad arse force users get out there and fight !

 

[Bryancd]

When I first heard the Plagueis theory I was at 35% that's where they were going with snoke then after all the similarity's one after the other I'm at 75% if Lucas was writing it I would be at 99% but I don't trust the writers to to not be purposely giggling a false birdy at us to look at while they sneek up behind .

To me the music is the best evidence to support it . I mean they give everyone there own music that is how has always been.

the only two reasons to give snoke the theme music that was only played once before while discussing Plagueis is they are the same person or they want us to think he is the same person .
Or I guess they could have just " phoned it in" like they seemed to do with the squad color designations Lol. but I give Williams more credit than that.

Anyway you think Rey will stick with the staff style weapon ? I hope so . maybe even two different color blades like in some of the concept art .

Regarding the music, you should go listen the most recent episode of Star Wars Oxygen podcast where David Collins does a direct comparison of the Opera House music, which by the way isnt a theme, it's source music. They sound nothing alike when you break them down note for note.