Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editions?

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

I know it may be crazy to wait all the years it takes, but I have replaced my original copy of ANH with Star Wars Revisited. I plan to do the same with ESB and the same with Jedi when they come out.

I agree. I did that a year or so ago. To me, that's MY Special Edition and it's the only version I watch now. SOOOOO much better than the regular SEs.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

Everybody's bitchin' about the Original Version of the movie...well, as a Belgian I didn't see the same version as you guys! The Belgian Censor Board deemed 3 scenes to be too violent for the "General Admission" Lucas wanted at the time. (1: scene when Darth crushes that poor guy's neck in the Tantative, 2: the skeletal remains, still smoking, of Luke's Uncle/Ant and 3: the cut-off arm on the floor of the Cantina).

Soooo, Lucas cut those 3 scenes out, no problems. It's when I immigrated to Canada in 1982 that I saw StarWars on T.V. and my jaw hit the floor, 'cause I was discovering that for all those years, the "original" had been transformed for Belgium only! So there, I should feel doubly disappointed!:D
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

I'm just glad we revived a three year old thread.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

I've got the original trilogy in LaserDisc. Unfortunately, they're the full screen versions, not the widescreen. But, hey, I'm happy to have them. :)
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

That's basically the "bonus discs" from the 2006 DVD release, by the way. They're essentially just legal laserdisc rips like the ebay rips that were out for a while. I think they were basically released because GL realized if he didn't, people would just keep buying the ebay versions. Now I guess folks just use bittorrent to get some fan edit.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

There have been several laserdisc versions,, both "full screen" (pan-and-scan) and widescreen, where the widescreen editions were of course not anamorphic.
The extras on the 2006 DVD release were copied from the same master video-tapes as "The Definite Collection" laserdisc edition, which is widescreen.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

Maybe Disney will do the right thing.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

They'd be crazy not to. There's a bit of money in it, and boatloads of fan goodwill.

Well, yes and no.

The money issue is, as I understand it, fairly complex and relates to things like future-proofing the films.

Right now, it's doubtful whether a 1080p blu-ray release of the OOT would be worth the cost for restoring it. Fan goodwill is irrelevant, since we all know that the fans of this franchise are, at least in the aggregate, junkies who'll gobble up whatever you slap the logo on. Or at least, that's what the suits think, and they're mostly right.

The main economic benefit (from my understanding of the situation, that is) is in future releases. All of the Star Wars material right now is mastered at 1080p. That means further resolution increases will be artificial ones like the upscaling a blu-ray player does when it pops in a DVD. Looks good, but not as "real" or "natural" as when you have a source that's natively higher resolution.

Depending on what the next widely adopted generation of consumer home video is, you could be looking at a significant increase in resolutions. The bump up to 2K probably isn't enough to warrant another pass, but a 4K or 8K release might be, given the drastic increase in resolution that you'd see. Upscaling a 1080p source just won't cut it for such releases, so it'd make sense to go back to the film originals, restore them, and rescan them at 8K.

BUT the flipside to this argument is that 2-dimensional television is (arguably) hitting a point of diminishing returns where increased resolution is kind of pointless. The screen sizes for consumer electronics just aren't big enough to warrant a 4K or 8K display. You might be able to run a clever marketing scheme to tell people they need to get the ultra-razzle-dazzle 4K/8K display...but the leading edge of that change, the videophiles, won't buy it unless it's like a +100" display (and even then, you'd probably only need to go to 2K). Plus, streaming is becoming far more popular and economically attractive to content owners, but the national infrastructure isn't really set up to handle the kinds of bandwidths required to stream 4K/8K to homes around the nation.

So, on the one hand, yeah, it'd make sense to update the masters if you can make a buck long-term off of it. But on the other, the kind of buck you'd be making is more likely to be a theatrical re-release of the OOT, rather than a home release (or a theatrical, followed by a home release). Otherwise, it's a bit more of a niche market.


My hope is that they'll restore them anyway and put them out in some ginormous mega-set to entice the oldsters to buy after the new trilogy is done...but be prepared for these films to languish for a long time.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

Well, once in a blue moon a company does something charitable/cultural/to look good. Maybe that's where our hope lies, that they'd do it for pure positive PR even if it wouldn't rake in cash.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

In my fantasies the good folks at Criterion with an unlimited budget would take on SW and ESB.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

In my fantasies the good folks at Criterion with an unlimited budget would take on SW and ESB.

A lovely fantasy, no question. But I think the real issue is whether they can make ENOUGH money to make it worthwhile to remaster and release an unedited version. I'd hope they would, but I don't think it's quite a sure thing.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

Disney is very diligent about preserving old film negatives and such, even if there are no plans for any kind of release any time soon. They made new preservation masters of Song of the South a couple years ago, even though the company is insistent upon it not seeing the light of day again. They know it's important to keep everything viable.

Fortunately, LFL also saves everything, so the OT isn't really "destroyed", it's just disassembled.

So the original version of the trilogy, even if it is currently in the form of trims in cans and whatever remains of it in the Special Edition negative, will be preserved. The potential of putting it all back together will always be there.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

A lovely fantasy, no question. But I think the real issue is whether they can make ENOUGH money to make it worthwhile to remaster and release an unedited version. I'd hope they would, but I don't think it's quite a sure thing.

The Criterion Collection is nonprofit. That makes sense because they invest in pretty obscure but historically significant films.

Disney is very diligent about preserving old film negatives and such, even if there are no plans for any kind of release any time soon. They made new preservation masters of Song of the South a couple years ago, even though the company is insistent upon it not seeing the light of day again. They know it's important to keep everything
I was going to make that point as well.








Wait a minute ... just spitballing here.

We all agree that the original versions of SW and ESB are in jeopardy of being lost forever. Perhaps we can lobby for intervention of The National Film Preservation Foundation in order to preserve them in their original forms. I would argue that the original movies qualify as endangered and are not protected by commercial interests.
The Special Editions don't count. They are, by design, sufficiently dissimilar from the source material so as to represent a legally distinct creative commodity.

You can't deny the cultural significance of the original films. They deserve to be preserved.

I suppose it's a problem that the films aren't in the public domain. But I wonder if there's precedent for making this case if George is threatening to let them rot.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

Well, yes and no.

The money issue is, as I understand it, fairly complex and relates to things like future-proofing the films.

Right now, it's doubtful whether a 1080p blu-ray release of the OOT would be worth the cost for restoring it. Fan goodwill is irrelevant, since we all know that the fans of this franchise are, at least in the aggregate, junkies who'll gobble up whatever you slap the logo on. Or at least, that's what the suits think, and they're mostly right.

The main economic benefit (from my understanding of the situation, that is) is in future releases. All of the Star Wars material right now is mastered at 1080p. That means further resolution increases will be artificial ones like the upscaling a blu-ray player does when it pops in a DVD. Looks good, but not as "real" or "natural" as when you have a source that's natively higher resolution.

Depending on what the next widely adopted generation of consumer home video is, you could be looking at a significant increase in resolutions. The bump up to 2K probably isn't enough to warrant another pass, but a 4K or 8K release might be, given the drastic increase in resolution that you'd see. Upscaling a 1080p source just won't cut it for such releases, so it'd make sense to go back to the film originals, restore them, and rescan them at 8K.

As Treadwell stated it is a long term preservation issue. The current masters are 1080p (which is pretty much the same thing as 2K) but they are a distribution asset, not a preservation asset. They are also a little long in the tooth so are probably due a new pass. In any case the resolution limit exists for most films of the last 10 years which were only finished at 2K: including most recent blockbusters.

Disney is one of the top tier entertainment companies for asset management. For Sleeping Beauty's latest remaster (which had had a restoration only a few years previously) they went back to the original negative (previously they had only used later generation elements) and scanned it at very high resolution. They made a preservation negative (an exact copy of the original on modern stocks), a slightly cleaned up printing element for making new prints, as well as various digital masters.

As the film archive went to Disney as part of the sale they will have access to all of the original elements. Included in this will be fine grain separation masters. These are copies of the conformed negatives printed on to 3 strips of fine grain black and white film. Each strip holds one of the three primary colours. They were made as protection in case something untoward were to happen to the negative. The three strips could be re-combined to create a new negative virtually identical to the original. With digital techniques this can be done with remarkable precision.

They were looked at as a source in the mid '90s as part of the Special Edition project but as that restoration was primarily photo-chemical other sources were used. Disney used a three exposure per frame process for their classic films up until the late 1980s when they moved to CAPs and all their classic negatives are in that form. So Disney have excellent tools and plenty of experience in working with this sort of element which have produced wonderful results.

While it might have been cost prohibitive for an independent Lucasfilm to do this sort of work, after all it was a relatively small company by Hollywood standards, it would easily be affordable as part of Disney's asset protection programme. As Treadwell said they protect the films in their archive which will never see the light of day and have far less commercial value than Star Wars. And using the protection elements is only a worst case scenario should other elements prove illusive.

BUT the flipside to this argument is that 2-dimensional television is (arguably) hitting a point of diminishing returns where increased resolution is kind of pointless. The screen sizes for consumer electronics just aren't big enough to warrant a 4K or 8K display. You might be able to run a clever marketing scheme to tell people they need to get the ultra-razzle-dazzle 4K/8K display...but the leading edge of that change, the videophiles, won't buy it unless it's like a +100" display (and even then, you'd probably only need to go to 2K). Plus, streaming is becoming far more popular and economically attractive to content owners, but the national infrastructure isn't really set up to handle the kinds of bandwidths required to stream 4K/8K to homes around the nation.

So, on the one hand, yeah, it'd make sense to update the masters if you can make a buck long-term off of it. But on the other, the kind of buck you'd be making is more likely to be a theatrical re-release of the OOT, rather than a home release (or a theatrical, followed by a home release). Otherwise, it's a bit more of a niche market.


My hope is that they'll restore them anyway and put them out in some ginormous mega-set to entice the oldsters to buy after the new trilogy is done...but be prepared for these films to languish for a long time.

Eventually the price of 4K will be so low that it will be on every set you can buy. It'll be no different to how pretty much all sets are 1080p when a few years ago it was a premium feature. The bigger issue is getting 4K content. Many films, as previously mentioned, only exist at 2k so will have to be scaled or re-finished at 4K.

It is one of the ironies of the digital age that many far older films will stand up far better to future display technologies than those of recent years.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

I hope you're right, and I hope Disney's desire to preserve the films leads them to eventually release the old versions for home viewing on devices that are younger than 20+ years old...

I also fully recognize the irony of how films that don't use the latest whiz-bang digital technology actually fare better in terms of longevity on home media. I wonder what that may do to the film industry itself, but I can't help but think that digital is just so much more cost effective that they'll stick with it for the freedom it gives them in post-production.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

There is also 3D. I really would have liked to see the original trilogy in 3D theatrically.

My hope is that Disney halted the 3D conversions process because they did not want to convert the special editions and have plans to restore the originals. I remember JJ saying that Episode VII would not be in 3D. I have a feeling that will change.

In a few decades we will have to convert everything again to holographic display.
 
Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

From Wikipedia regarding distribution of Star Wars:

20th Century Fox, the original distributors of the first six Star Wars films, still retain the distribution rights to the original two Star Wars trilogies, currently owning permanent distribution rights for Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, while holding the distribution rights to Episodes I-III, V, and VI until May 2020.[26] In December 2013, The Walt Disney Studios purchased the distribution and marketing rights to future Indiana Jones films from Paramount Pictures, although the latter studio will continue to distribute the first four films and will receive "financial participation" from the additional films
 
Back
Top