Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editions?

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

Well, even so, NOBODY'S gonna make money when the fans step in and just keep redistributing their own versions, inferior though they may be.

 

[dualedge]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

Gotta go with Solo... I will never understand why Lucas views the situation the way he does. Lucas certainly doesn't mind pimping anything else out to make money but heaven forbid he just give fans a cleaned up version of the original Star Wars.

But, such is life and it sucks sometimes.

Lucas is definitely mistaken in the notion that the SE will eventually be remembered as the "only" version. No chance in heck of that happening and even by saying it, he's making sure it'll never happen. It's like a self-un-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[joker-scar]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

I agree completely. Like many others at the time I enjoyed the SE versions when they came out just because it was "Star Wars plus!" But to say the SE versions are superior just because the visual FX are superior than the original 76' ILM techniques or some of the scenes are more fleshed out etc. is just "Sautéed in wrong sauce". Some of the editing ie. the "Han vs Greedo" scene just sucks dramatically. Nobody I have ever run into in the 30 plus years since May 1977 has ever spouted that Han was immoral for firing first. Personally i feel watching the film in the original version is more satisfying, warts and all. I miss the "epic-niss" of the "X and Y Wings in formation" shot leaving the rebel base in the original to name just one. In the SE version they randomly rise up and fly off hap hazardly. Doesn't have the same effect dramatically. Same can be said of the Falcon leaving Mos Eisley. Sure the space battle has better shots in the SE version but some shots work better in the original, some stuff is better, some not. Have them "both" so "WE" can decide which version we feel like watching. Lucas made the film but WE made Star Wars a hit.
As far as Lucas's position of "THEY ARE MY FILMS" this is wrong. He may be the writer/director/creator etc. etc. etc. of the saga but Fox "PAID" for Star Wars production costs and Alan Ladd took the chance on Lucas when everybody else in Hollywood turned down Lucas and his space opera idea. Once the film is released it belongs to the public and the world of cinema....forever! He can fidget and re-edit until "nobody" cares anymore, the original and any other version should be available with equal measure.
I've noticed in the last decade that video versions of many of my favorite films are being tweeked and ****ed with and it isn't right. DIRTY HARRY and MAGNUM FORCE (plus many countless other films) have audio changes for no good reason. And now i can't find any new DVD versions with the original audio cues. When Bern Burtt replaced the Stormtrooper Blaster sounds with .44 Magnum shots in the "chasm swing" scene (in one of the earlier SE versions) my jawed dropped. WTF?????????????
The BTTF "terrorist" line removal is censorship that is the first step to 1984.
In the end...Lucas has become all that he hated when he was a young man....a corporate suit. He has become ANAKIN!

Gotta go with Solo... I will never understand why Lucas views the situation the way he does. Lucas certainly doesn't mind pimping anything else out to make money but heaven forbid he just give fans a cleaned up version of the original Star Wars.

But, such is life and it sucks sometimes.

Lucas is definitely mistaken in the notion that the SE will eventually be remembered as the "only" version. No chance in heck of that happening and even by saying it, he's making sure it'll never happen. It's like a self-un-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Dpp1978]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

I've heard it said that the original version is co-owned by Fox, but the Special Edition is all his, so that affects who he has to share royalties with. I don't know if that's true.

I'm pretty sure Fox assigned most of the rights to Star Wars to Lucasfilm as part of the deal to distribute the prequels.

Fox still holds the distribution rights to all 6 so will get its cut either way.

 

[SVTStingRay]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

geez we should all start a "boycott star wars on bluray". no originals, no cash.
and cause someone asked....

 

[Jedi2016]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

I've heard it said that the original version is co-owned by Fox, but the Special Edition is all his, so that affects who he has to share royalties with. I don't know if that's true.

Actually, the way I hear it, it's not Fox.. it's the ex-wife. She's entitled to royalties from the sale of the unaltered trilogy. The versions released on the last DVD set were considered "bonus features" and not a separate release.

 

[Treadwell]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

When Bern Burtt replaced the Stormtrooper Blaster sounds with .44 Magnum shots in the "chasm swing" scene (in one of the earlier SE versions) my jawed dropped. WTF?????????????

That was actually part of one of the original mixes from '77. The SE mix used aspects of all three original mixes.

 

[yodakiller1138]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

I've heard it said that the original version is co-owned by Fox, but the Special Edition is all his, so that affects who he has to share royalties with. I don't know if that's true.

Don't think that is true. I seem to remember reading there was a clause in his contract with Fox that said if the studio was sold all rights reverted to LFL. When Murdoch bought the studio that's when it happened. Lucas owns it outright and can do anything he wants. The only thing they share is possibly distribution rights.

 

[Wakeem]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

No, no, that's all mixed up.

The original video MASTERS that were used to make the 1993 laserdiscs were what were used for the "bonus disc" original versions on DVD. This has nothing to do with what film elements were used for the 1997 Special Edition.

But Lucas and Fox have 35mm material galore.

When they pulled the original 35mm camera negative from the vault, much of it had "gone pink" due to the use of a new Eastman stock that turned out to have stabilization issues.

YCM labs physically cleaned the negative with various techniques, from baths to meticulously removing embedded dirt with a razor blade. Then they used various photochemical techniques to make dupes of the pink sections and restored the proper colors. For some shots, they had to dupe vintage prints, such as an archival Technicolor print privately owned by Lucas.

So at that stage, the original, restored version existed in film form.

(the following might not be in precise chronological order)

Then they decided to redo all of the optical transitions (wipes and dissolves).

Then George decided to do some more fixes. And then a few more. And then some more. All of these were done digitally, using scans of the original footage.

The digital artists worked at 1080p resolution. Yes. Not 2K or 4K like everyone else does. Their work was output to film, and those negatives were cut back into the original negative, replacing the original versions of those shots.

So when George says the original version doesn't exist anymore, that's what he means.

But could it be put back together? Yes, absolutely! The replaced sections would have been retained. All they'd need to do is scan the altered version to 4K or something, then scan all the saved trims of the original sections, and put them back together digitally, making any non-invasive corrections at the same time (dirt removal, color correction, etc). You know, like Warner Bros has done with Gone With the Wind, or what Coppola did with Godfather.

It would not cost all that much. He just doesn't want to.

Where did you read this? A lot of those details aren't in the American Cinematographer issue. It doesn't mention cuting new material into the old negative.

 

[micdavis]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

Don't think that is true. I seem to remember reading there was a clause in his contract with Fox that said if the studio was sold all rights reverted to LFL. When Murdoch bought the studio that's when it happened. Lucas owns it outright and can do anything he wants. The only thing they share is possibly distribution rights.

Lucas got back the rights to Star Wars as part of the distribution deal for the prequels as he threatened to take them to Paramount, who did just fine with the IJ Trilogy.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

When Bern Burtt replaced the Stormtrooper Blaster sounds with .44 Magnum shots in the "chasm swing" scene (in one of the earlier SE versions) my jawed dropped. WTF?????????????

Even on my old VHS tapes it's that sound - it's always been that sound - different than anywhere else in the movie. Nothing new.

The BTTF "terrorist" line removal is censorship that is the first step to 1984.

We never got the terrorist line in any of the Danish releases of this movie. I always recall it as pirate. There were different mixes and different lines.

Actually, the way I hear it, it's not Fox.. it's the ex-wife. She's entitled to royalties from the sale of the unaltered trilogy. The versions released on the last DVD set were considered "bonus features" and not a separate release.

LOL... can't stand the exes touch on the film, eh, since he has to remove her edits and keep her from earning her rightful cut.

It's all about power. It's not because he can't... it's because he won't offer the version his ex-wife worked on... wow... and I guess it isn't just woman scorned... or maybe ol' George is a woman... LOL.

 

[Wakeem]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

Lucas did joke on Charlie Rose that he made the prequels because he had to get his money back after the divorce. Maybe he wants to make sure his ex-wife doesn't receive anything. But I believe she's still listed in the credits for the Special Editions...

 

[Treadwell]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

Where did you read this? A lot of those details aren't in the American Cinematographer issue. It doesn't mention cuting new material into the old negative.

I'm afraid I can't cite which fact came from which source, but at the time I was rather fanatical about researching this and read a whole bunch of sources.

Even on my old VHS tapes it's that sound - it's always been that sound - different than anywhere else in the movie. Nothing new.

It was in the original mono mix, which was the last English-language mix done before they did the other languages, so it makes sense it would've been the sounds Denmark and the rest of the world heard.

 

[Dpp1978]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

Where did you read this? A lot of those details aren't in the American Cinematographer issue. It doesn't mention cuting new material into the old negative.

There is a pretty exhaustive article on the process here:

The Secret History of Star Wars

 

[Egon Spengler]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

I haven't bought a single Star Wars film since before the prequels came out. I only have Episode 1 because I got it for free and I only have Ep 2 because I won it in a contest they had on tv for Star Wars trivia and it was part of a package. I'll never buy a single one of the prequels and don't really plan on buying any other releases of the original trilogy.

 

[darth_myeek]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

mmh prints are soo rare..
STAR WARS 35mm Feature Film ORIGINAL complete 6 Reels

This film has been in a private collection since 1980 and not publicly shown.
The sale of this film is intended for home use only...

 

[Wakeem]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

There is a pretty exhaustive article on the process here:

The Secret History of Star Wars

Thanks for the link. I just glanced at it but it seems to have a lot of the details on what happened. I'll read the whole thing in the next few days.

 

[micdavis]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

mmh prints are soo rare..
STAR WARS 35mm Feature Film ORIGINAL complete 6 Reels

This film has been in a private collection since 1980 and not publicly shown.
The sale of this film is intended for home use only...

That print is done. Once it goes red it never comes back.

A couple years that will be unwatchable.

16mm prints used to go for more than that one and it's 35mm.

Why, they are all going red, just like that.

 

[rodneyfaile]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

No, no, that's all mixed up.

The original video MASTERS that were used to make the 1993 laserdiscs were what were used for the "bonus disc" original versions on DVD. This has nothing to do with what film elements were used for the 1997 Special Edition.

But Lucas and Fox have 35mm material galore.

When they pulled the original 35mm camera negative from the vault, much of it had "gone pink" due to the use of a new Eastman stock that turned out to have stabilization issues.

YCM labs physically cleaned the negative with various techniques, from baths to meticulously removing embedded dirt with a razor blade. Then they used various photochemical techniques to make dupes of the pink sections and restored the proper colors. For some shots, they had to dupe vintage prints, such as an archival Technicolor print privately owned by Lucas.

So at that stage, the original, restored version existed in film form.

(the following might not be in precise chronological order)

Then they decided to redo all of the optical transitions (wipes and dissolves).

Then George decided to do some more fixes. And then a few more. And then some more. All of these were done digitally, using scans of the original footage.

The digital artists worked at 1080p resolution. Yes. Not 2K or 4K like everyone else does. Their work was output to film, and those negatives were cut back into the original negative, replacing the original versions of those shots.

So when George says the original version doesn't exist anymore, that's what he means.

But could it be put back together? Yes, absolutely! The replaced sections would have been retained. All they'd need to do is scan the altered version to 4K or something, then scan all the saved trims of the original sections, and put them back together digitally, making any non-invasive corrections at the same time (dirt removal, color correction, etc). You know, like Warner Bros has done with Gone With the Wind, or what Coppola did with Godfather.

It would not cost all that much. He just doesn't want to.

I thought the entire reason for the National Film Registry was to preserve original copies of movies and keep them from being altered, like when Ted Turner started colorizing black and white movies. What Lucas did to Star Wars was even more reprehensible.

I hope somewhere there is an intact original version. Maybe one day there will be a Star Wars release similar to Blade Runner with multiple versions.

 

[Probe Droid]

Re: Star Wars Originals - Time to call out George Lucas or embrace the Special Editio

I thought the entire reason for the National Film Registry was to preserve original copies of movies

It is. I don't think GL is entirely truthful on this matter. He's probably just tired of discussing it so that answer ends the discussion. That's just a guess.