Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

[Astyanax]

The makers of SNW do not love Treks legacy. In fact they don’t understand what Trek is beyond the superficial.

They ignore canon.

They’ve turned Spock into Sheldon.

They turned the Gorn into Alien.

Chapel is nothing like the Chapel we know. Why bother calling her Chapel if the character has been changed to such an extent as to be someone else?

The musical… ugh.
A cross over with a cartoon… ugh.

The show is over designed. The ONLY thing that looks functional is when they base something on a past design. The designers don’t even try to make things look functional. They just want them to be big, bright and cool.

It’s better than Discovery is a pretty low bar for any Trek show.

The people making Trek today are not invested in Star Trek. They are simply making a tv show. That’s all. They play lip service to the past without understanding any of it. There is no visionary in charge. Just people earning their paycheck.

Interesting...fair opinions, but I can't agree. To me, that's like complaining the 2004 Battlestar Galactica is a failure because it's designed differently and Starbuck is a woman, that cylons are indistinguishable from humans, that they use minutes instead of centons, etc. But those things are all window dressing. 2004 BG is a different interpretation of the BG story and its people. The same goes for SNW.

We seem to disagree on what Star Trek all about...

For me, Star Trek is not about how accurate to "canon" individual characters are. It's not about the design of the ship. It's not about whether Gorn are like Aliens or not.

For me, Star Trek is all about examining the human condition through the optimistic eyes of exploration. And for me, Strange New Worlds does this quite well. Unquestionably, SNW looks and feels differently from TOS. But it loves its legacy because it GETS what Star Trek is all about. Discovery and and Picard S1/S2 threw that all out the window.

Examples:

• Discovery threw out the window that the Starfleet chain of command is one of its most sacred traditions...you don't award starship captaincy to someone who attacks their captain and starts wars, and follows NONE of the rules.
  
  
• Picard S1/S2 threw out the window that Earth and the main Federation worlds are utopias, with no need for money, and without addiction problems or terrorism.

I'd love to have a debate where Strange New Worlds is breaking the fundamental laws of Star Trek like the rest of Kurtzman Trek is.

 

[Lost in Trek]

Interesting...fair opinions, but I can't agree. To me, that's like complaining the 2004 Battlestar Galactica is a failure because it's designed differently and Starbuck is a woman, that cylons are indistinguishable from humans, that they use minutes instead of centons, etc. But those things are all window dressing. 2004 BG is a different interpretation of the BG story and its people. The same goes for SNW.

We seem to disagree on what Star Trek all about...

For me, Star Trek is not about how accurate to "canon" individual characters are. It's not about the design of the ship. It's not about whether Gorn are like Aliens or not.

For me, Star Trek is all about examining the human condition through the optimistic eyes of exploration. And for me, Strange New Worlds does this quite well. Unquestionably, SNW looks and feels differently from TOS. But it loves its legacy because it GETS what Star Trek is all about. Discovery and and Picard S1/S2 threw that all out the window.

Examples:

• Discovery threw out the window that the Starfleet chain of command is one of its most sacred traditions...you don't award starship captaincy to someone who attacks their captain and starts wars, and follows NONE of the rules.
  
  
• Picard S1/S2 threw out the window that Earth and the main Federation worlds are utopias, with no need for money, and without addiction problems or terrorism.

I'd love to have a debate where Strange New Worlds is breaking the fundamental laws of Star Trek like the rest of Kurtzman Trek is.

Apples and oranges… Battlestar 04 was a reimagined version. SNW is supposed to at least follow canon per the show runners. It clearly doesn’t.

I agree, exploration and discovery are at the core of Trek’s identity. But that was accomplished via smart, well written characters in a science fiction setting. All of that equaled quality Trek.

The characters in SNW are dumb in a setting that isn’t believable. The sci fi elements are just juvenile.
One out of three ain’t so good in my opinion.

I don’t believe in name calling so I will avoid impugning the show runners and makers. But they are all simply falling back on old ideas. Why change the characters we know instead of invent new characters? Or how about using the characters from the Cage? Build on them…
Why use the Gorn and again break canon? Why not come up with something original?

I’m glad you like it. Really. But I’m getting to the point that I’m just tired of bad to mediocre Trek. I miss, quality Star Trek.

 

[JNordgren42]

Apples and oranges… Battlestar 04 was a reimagined version. SNW is supposed to at least follow canon per the show runners. It clearly doesn’t.

I agree, exploration and discovery are at the core of Trek’s identity. But that was accomplished via smart, well written characters in a science fiction setting. All of that equaled quality Trek.

The characters in SNW are dumb in a setting that isn’t believable. The sci fi elements are just juvenile.
One out of three ain’t so good in my opinion.

I don’t believe in name calling so I will avoid impugning the show runners and makers. But they are all simply falling back on old ideas. Why change the characters we know instead of invent new characters? Or how about using the characters from the Cage? Build on them…
Why use the Gorn and again break canon? Why not come up with something original?

I’m glad you like it. Really. But I’m getting to the point that I’m just tired of bad to mediocre Trek. I miss, quality Star Trek.

Have you watched any of the older Trek recently? I have, starting with TOS, then moving to TNG, and I'm currently about midway through S7 of DS9. There are so many dreadfully written and just plan dumb episodes of all three. Granted there is brilliance in all three as well, but the same could be said of SNW. And at least for me, the bad is far outweighed by the good for all of them. Are there things that sidle right up to the line of canon and give it a big sloppy kiss in SNW? Definitely. But all Trek is so full of contradictions and retcons, that it's hardly a deal breaker, at least for me. Your mileage may (and obviously does) vary.

 

[Lost in Trek]

I have watched TOS recently. You’re argument seems to be none of the shows are perfect therefore…

Trek through Enterprise, while not perfect, was at least written, designed and produced by people who understood what Trek is. After that, starting in 2009, all of that changed.

Now I like 09 Trek ok, but the film has many flaws and the characters are not true to what they were but are instead caricatures of what some perceived them to be.

I do think Star Trek Beyond was the best of the Kelvin films. I actually liked that one a lot because the characters felt closer to adults and what I grew up with. And it had a Trek story.

I don’t care for Discovery, Picard (season 1&2), Lower Decks or Prodigy.
Picard season 3 was good and I really enjoyed it.
SNW is far more miss than hit but there have been a few decent episodes. But again, nothing I would watch again. It’s mediocre… not horrible, good sometimes, but mostly meh.

If you like it enjoy, I’m happy to rewatch older Trek.

 

[Cephus]

Here's the problem. Nobody working on modern live-action Trek has any idea what Trek is. They made Discovery, which flopped. Hardly anyone liked it. It wasn't remotely Trek. Paramount panicked and said "we need to make something that looks like Trek". That's where Strange New Hair came from. Looking like Trek isn't Trek. They don't understand what Trek is. They're just trying to make a TV show with a thin veneer of Trek, but that's not Trek. Trek is a very specific property. Trek has a very specific look and feel. What they're making right now isn't Trek. It isn't even close. SNW might be closer than Discovery, in the same way that vomit is closer to sirloin steak than crap is, but it's not the same thing.

 

[Cephus]

I have watched TOS recently. You’re argument seems to be none of the shows are perfect therefore…

Trek through Enterprise, while not perfect, was at least written, designed and produced by people who understood what Trek is. After that, starting in 2009, all of that changed.

Now I like 09 Trek ok, but the film has many flaws and the characters are not true to what they were but are instead caricatures of what some perceived them to be.

I do think Star Trek Beyond was the best of the Kelvin films. I actually liked that one a lot because the characters felt closer to adults and what I grew up with. And it had a Trek story.

I don’t care for Discovery, Picard (season 1&2), Lower Decks or Prodigy.
Picard season 3 was good and I really enjoyed it.
SNW is far more miss than hit but there have been a few decent episodes. But again, nothing I would watch again. It’s mediocre… not horrible, good sometimes, but mostly meh.

If you like it enjoy, I’m happy to rewatch older Trek.

Absolutely, same here. TOS is the only Trek series that I have on Bluray and I watch it all the time. I would watch every episode of TOS before I'd watch a single episode of Strange New Hair. There's no question whatsoever. The people who knew what Trek was because they invented Trek are always going to have the best version of Trek, just like Lucas is always going to have the best take on Star Wars because he made the thing up. Granted, as they went on, in both franchises, the wheels started to wobble and fall off because they got farther and farther away from the creators, but luckily, I have no need for new shows. I'm perfectly happy to watch and rewatch what we already have. I'm not looking for more. If they came up with something great, fine. I'm not holding my breath because I don't think modern Hollywood is capable of making good TV anymore. They have proven that they can't make good Trek.

 

[JNordgren42]

If y'all are happy with TOS, that's great, but without new content the franchise will whither and die. There have been several droughts in the long history of Star Trek and I for one, am happy for the new content. Discovery and Picard both had wild variations in the quality of writing and storytelling, but they both had absolutely brilliant moments, and I enjoyed them overall. In my opinion SNW is even better. The occasional goofy episode is offset by some truly incredible episodes like Ad Astra Per Aspera. And even the goofy episodes are FUN if you don't take yourself and Trek too seriously. I'd say for me, the overall quality of SNW is the best Trek has ever been. And I'll take Subspace Rhapsody or Those Old Scientists over Spock's Brain or Turnabout Intruder any day of the week.

 

[Cephus]

Then it dies. Who cares? I only care if I am personally entertained. I am not personally entertained by modern Trek. If there was never any more Trek, I'm fine with that. In fact, I'd much rather have no Trek than bad Trek. People get way too invested in franchises. I couldn't care less.

 

[edge10]

Then it dies. Who cares? I only care if I am personally entertained. I am not personally entertained by modern Trek. If there was never any more Trek, I'm fine with that. In fact, I'd much rather have no Trek than bad Trek. People get way too invested in franchises. I couldn't care less.

It's not really dead, as long as we remember it.

 

[Lost in Trek]

If y'all are happy with TOS, that's great, but without new content the franchise will whither and die. There have been several droughts in the long history of Star Trek and I for one, am happy for the new content. Discovery and Picard both had wild variations in the quality of writing and storytelling, but they both had absolutely brilliant moments, and I enjoyed them overall. In my opinion SNW is even better. The occasional goofy episode is offset by some truly incredible episodes like Ad Astra Per Aspera. And even the goofy episodes are FUN if you don't take yourself and Trek too seriously. I'd say for me, the overall quality of SNW is the best Trek has ever been. And I'll take Subspace Rhapsody or Those Old Scientists over Spock's Brain or Turnabout Intruder any day of the week.

Actually I would argue without GOOD new content the franchise will whither and die. Bad content will accelerate death.

Content for the sake of content is not the answer. These IPs, particularly Trek and Star Wars, are being run into the ground by people who want a fast buck. They will bleed these franchises dry for the sake of immediate gratification, ie stock price.

I wish we had people in charge that would manage these IPs like Bond. Take your time… there is no need to release a new movie every other year. Leave the audience wanting more.

 

[Lost in Trek]

Absolutely, same here. TOS is the only Trek series that I have on Bluray and I watch it all the time. I would watch every episode of TOS before I'd watch a single episode of Strange New Hair. There's no question whatsoever. The people who knew what Trek was because they invented Trek are always going to have the best version of Trek, just like Lucas is always going to have the best take on Star Wars because he made the thing up. Granted, as they went on, in both franchises, the wheels started to wobble and fall off because they got farther and farther away from the creators, but luckily, I have no need for new shows. I'm perfectly happy to watch and rewatch what we already have. I'm not looking for more. If they came up with something great, fine. I'm not holding my breath because I don't think modern Hollywood is capable of making good TV anymore. They have proven that they can't make good Trek.

There is a general lack of vision in Hollywood today. No one wants to take a chance on anything new. It’s telling that all of these IPs were created decades ago. Where is the new Indiana Jones, the new Star Wars and the new sci fi tv show???

Now there is still great content out there, yes. But it sure seems those great movies and shows, especially movies, are few and far between.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

Strange New Worlds is the shiniest turn in the NuTrek toilet.

I’ve enjoyed episodes. M’Benga is easily my favorite character in the series.

It is closer to legacy Trek (closer) but we have many misses.

Spock is not Spock. “But we’ll say that he’s just not the Spock that we all know yet, because he’s younger. Remember when he was smiling at the singing plants in the original pilot?”

Erica constantly is snippy on the bridge. Mouthing off to her superiors while reminding them of how awesome she is.

Uhura, Chapel, Kirk, are nothing like their namesakes.

And yes, there have been stinker episodes and all of the other series. But when you have 26 episodes per season, three or four stinkers is an acceptable percentage.

But when you only have 10 episodes per season, 3 to 4 stinkers is a very high return.

For what it is, I do enjoy strange new worlds.

It’s not comparable to the legacy Trek that I love, but it’s the shiniest turd in the toilet.

 

[masterjedi322]

SNW is supposed to at least follow canon per the show runners. It clearly doesn’t.

Interesting… I thought all the nuTrek was set in alternate timelines aka Trek 2009 giving the writers leeway to deviate from the original canon…?

Sean

 

[AnubisGuard]

Interesting… I thought all the nuTrek was set in alternate timelines aka Trek 2009 giving the writers leeway to deviate from the original canon…?

Sean

That's only the Abrams/Kelvin Timeline movies. The series are all pretending to be in continuity with each other.

 

[Lightning]

Spock is not Spock. “But we’ll say that he’s just not the Spock that we all know yet, because he’s younger. Remember when he was smiling at the singing plants in the original pilot?”

you know that if they had made Spock exactly the same as in TOS people would complain saying: "Why is Spock the same? We know he was more emotional when he was younger! He yells and smiles in the first pilot."

plus characters without an arc are less interesting.

 

[Lost in Trek]

you know that if they had made Spock exactly the same as in TOS people would complain saying: "Why is Spock the same? We know he was more emotional when he was younger! He yells and smiles in the first pilot."

plus characters without an arc are less interesting.

There is a big difference in showing a younger different Spock… I would love to see a Spock as represented in The Cage… but they write him as Sheldon. They write him as an idiot.

 

[Lost in Trek]

Interesting… I thought all the nuTrek was set in alternate timelines aka Trek 2009 giving the writers leeway to deviate from the original canon…?

Sean

Honestly I don’t think they know or care what timeline they are in.

Nothing fits in either timeline

 

[MARK M3]

The writing is terrible. Feel free to Google who the writers are on SNW. Then compare with the Writers on the original Series.
I like Anson Mount but his talents are wasted here.
However, if it can somehow make you forget this current world we live in and give you enjoyment, more power to you!

 

[NakedMoleRat]

you know that if they had made Spock exactly the same as in TOS people would complain saying: "Why is Spock the same? We know he was more emotional when he was younger! He yells and smiles in the first pilot."

plus characters without an arc are less interesting.

We will have to agree to disagree!

 

[NakedMoleRat]

Go back and watch Spock in Discovery season two. With the long hair and beard, he was a more accurate representation of Spock than the one we have now.