Star Trek Prop Authority
- Thread starter Room8
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OK, so the fun will continue after all :lol
Pot calling the kettle black I believe :rolleyes
PS - Did I already mention that your comm holes don't match up :lol ?
Pot calling the kettle black I believe :rolleyes
Yep, if you're deaf, dumb and blind it does prove nothing. ... and I suppose you believe the world is flat as well?lol:lol
When exactly was your lobotomy performed?
Total blind ignorance again. Not unexpected at the Flying Circus.
PS - Did I already mention that your comm holes don't match up :lol ?
robn1
Master Member
If it was that wide it would be a quarter inch or more, which it clearly is not.
Studio built comms, if they exist or not, prove nothing about yours.
Exactly.
Please, Mr. Castillo:
Your last response just avoided answering the questions.
To repeat:
Your last response just avoided answering the questions.
To repeat:
Mr. Castillo!
Please, there is no use for such profanity and lack of common courtesy. You seem to be unwilling, sir, to present your own information, or lack of it, in a professional manner. That is very unfortunate behavior that has now totally ruined the very little credibility that you may have had here.
Please, sir, stop avoiding these very reasonable questions.
How do you explain that non-Wah Chang midgrade on Shatner's belt which has a very obvious much-too-wide midplate? Do you feel that John Dwyer was totally incorrect when he authenticated my comm after closely examining it side-by-side with his own comm? Are you associated with the creation of HeroComm? Why do you firmly deny it's possible that Desilu made midgrade communicators when they made stunt comms and all the other props and there are clear screenshots showing non-Wah Chang comms in TOS? Please stop ignoring all of these questions but answer them directly.
Please give us your serious, honest analysis of the screenshot evidence:
Very Best,
Gerald
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My comments are:
Now, I have no idea if this chap owns a real communicator, or not. He probably does,
I hope he does. I do.
HOWEVER, there is no way on God's Green Earth the two pictures above are of the same prop.
Sorry, you can see what ya want if you look hard enough, but those are two different props.
Amen Frank.
... and the number of holes don't match either in case I didn't mention it before :lol
Now I'm really done here :lol. It's going on to 1am .. nite nite.
Someone please let me know if he ever posts pics of his communicator. I may be 90 by then, but I'm sure they'll have invented mind-controlled mice for old farts with arthritis at that time :lol
Ok one more lmao the screen cap comm kirk is holding doesnt have the huge mid plate!
Interesting insight! That makes me wonder about the info I received from Greg Jein about the layers of different colors of glue to affix seal the black plastic shells to the midplate. He said that was evidence my comm was opened more than once for repairs at Desilu. (I have published Greg's testimony about that for years on my site.) Wonder if they swapped midplates. There is evidence some Wah Chang tricorder control plates were swapped during filming of TOS. As true experts know; that is another complication of verifying TOS pieces - how they swapped components and replaced parts to do repairs. Thanks for that insight!
Very Best,
Gerald
Mr. Castillo:
You are still just avoiding answering the questions. As you know I was just comparing similar construction features in that particular screenshot and certainly not claiming that particular comm was identical to my own. But that point has been made many times.
Please, sir, why can't you just stop the profanity and stop avoiding the questions?
How do you explain that non-Wah Chang midgrade on Shatner's belt which has a very obvious much-too-wide midplate? Do you feel that John Dwyer was totally incorrect when he authenticated my comm after closely examining it side-by-side with his own comm? Are you associated with the creation of HeroComm? Why do you firmly deny it's possible that Desilu made midgrade communicators when they made stunt comms and all the other props and there are clear screenshots showing non-Wah Chang comms in TOS? Please stop ignoring all of these questions but answer them directly.
Very Best,
Gerald
You are still just avoiding answering the questions. As you know I was just comparing similar construction features in that particular screenshot and certainly not claiming that particular comm was identical to my own. But that point has been made many times.
Please, sir, why can't you just stop the profanity and stop avoiding the questions?
How do you explain that non-Wah Chang midgrade on Shatner's belt which has a very obvious much-too-wide midplate? Do you feel that John Dwyer was totally incorrect when he authenticated my comm after closely examining it side-by-side with his own comm? Are you associated with the creation of HeroComm? Why do you firmly deny it's possible that Desilu made midgrade communicators when they made stunt comms and all the other props and there are clear screenshots showing non-Wah Chang comms in TOS? Please stop ignoring all of these questions but answer them directly.
Very Best,
Gerald
YenChih Lin
Master Member
You really can't be seriously saying that the lumps of glue and a blurry screenshot makes a match? Or do you? Truth to be told, there's nothing intriuging about it unless you can provide us with HD version of that particular scene. The only thing I can give you credit is the placement of the velcro.
The ST Sketchbook stated that Wah made 2 heros and 8 dummys, Roddenberry paid for the 10. There's a perliminary model, BUT if it's used, it's unknown.
If you closely study the imperfections along the bottom on the velcro in the screenshot, you can certainly see those intriguing faults. And you should not forget the other identical dimensional matches that could not have been reproduced over 30 years ago. 30 years ago there simply was not enough info out there for the dimensions of the major pieces on a replica to be so precise to the original - to the millimeter. You left that out, likely not intentionally, when you made your observation.
Very Best,
Gerald
Very Best,
Gerald
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And I did apologize for my less than fully respectful remarks. I apologize again; and I believe that I have been much more courteous in my followup remarks today. IMHO I became disrespectful before as I felt a lot of unfair accusations were being directed towards me and some folks were instantly minimizing anything I said - dismissing the info immediately as being of no consequence - which I thought was not reasonable conduct at all.
As I had anticipated very early in this thread; no side will succeed in convincing the other. I still feel some folks are avoiding some very reasonable and insightful observations that I presented, and not looking at the cumulative evidence. I am convinced my comm is real; and should be entitled to hold that opinion without childish ridicule -- especially when no conclusive evidence to the contrary was made, IMHO.
Very Best,
Gerald
As I had anticipated very early in this thread; no side will succeed in convincing the other. I still feel some folks are avoiding some very reasonable and insightful observations that I presented, and not looking at the cumulative evidence. I am convinced my comm is real; and should be entitled to hold that opinion without childish ridicule -- especially when no conclusive evidence to the contrary was made, IMHO.
Very Best,
Gerald
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feek61
Sr Member
How did Greg know that it was from repairs made at Desilu? Where is the proof? Did Desilu have their own unique glue that only experts can identify? Do you see the problem with your statement?
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feek61
Sr Member
Gerald,
I am interested in nothing more than proof and the reason why is that I am always interested in learning something new about TOS. I do not deny the possibility of Desilu made comms. The well known fact that they made tricorders and phasers does not necessarily translate to the comms. There were two original Wah tricorders and what we believe was four hero phasers. There were a bunch of crap phasers for long shots and then there were some nice mid-grade phasers made later in the production for the medium shots and eventually close-ups. That being said, neither the Wah made tricorders or phasers were made in sufficient quantities to adequately cover the needs of the show. The comms however were a different story. There were at least 10 verified Wah comms and most likely an 11th which was a proto-type given the young actor in the episode “The Corbomite Maneuver” (which he still has today). So, there really was not a need for any more comms. There was never a scene where more than 10 were shown at a time. With the budget constraints of the show it is hard to imagine that they would waste money making comms that they didn’t need.
That being said it is still possible that Desilu indeed did make comms but the problem with the theory (and yes, it’s only a theory) is that there is not proof. The one long-shot screen cap from “Return to Tomorrow” is certainly inconclusive at best. On film a shiny reflective object (such as a midplate) appears larger the further away it is from the camera. It is simple physics; the reflected light spreads out making the object appear larger the further away you are (or the camera). I will however go to that episode on Blu-Ray and look at the scene frame-by-frame and see if there is any evidence whatsoever of this being a non-Wah comm.
The problem with your argument is that you have a lot of conjecture, hearsay and theories but no hard evidence to back it up. Again just because Desilu made tricorders (because there were only two originals) and phasers (because they needed more) is not evidence that they also made comms. The Dywer assertion you are making really doesn’t hold any weight because it is unverified. Verification is screen-caps that without question positively identify the comm and tracing the chain of ownership back to the production. In any case you seem to be confusing speculation with fact. You have provided plenty of speculation and theory regarding your comm but no conclusive rock solid facts. That is the frustration here coupled with the fact that you refuse to post meaningful photos of a comm that at this point your ownership is in question. I am sorry to write so much but I want you to know that my insistence for proof has nothing to do with any animosity or conspiracy against you. Honestly I have enjoyed your site for years but there are many errors on it. If you were open to discussion about such things it could benefit you and your site and also the Trek community in general. Unfortunately you refuse to let that happen for reasons that totally escape me. I find that group research is much more productive and efficient. Let’s be honest; nobody knows everything and discussion always stimulates discovery.
Consider this an olive branch and a chance for you to step-up and join a group of people who are only interested in getting to the truth and further our understanding of the original show. Your dogmatic “I’m right and to hell with anyone who disagrees with me” attitude is accomplishing nothing. I will try to see evidence of this “Desilu” comm in the “Return to Tomorrow” episodes and will gladly post any evidence that conflicts with the general consensus. If you have any other appearances on screen of these proposed Desilu comms please let me know and I will research them as well and post the results here.
I am interested in nothing more than proof and the reason why is that I am always interested in learning something new about TOS. I do not deny the possibility of Desilu made comms. The well known fact that they made tricorders and phasers does not necessarily translate to the comms. There were two original Wah tricorders and what we believe was four hero phasers. There were a bunch of crap phasers for long shots and then there were some nice mid-grade phasers made later in the production for the medium shots and eventually close-ups. That being said, neither the Wah made tricorders or phasers were made in sufficient quantities to adequately cover the needs of the show. The comms however were a different story. There were at least 10 verified Wah comms and most likely an 11th which was a proto-type given the young actor in the episode “The Corbomite Maneuver” (which he still has today). So, there really was not a need for any more comms. There was never a scene where more than 10 were shown at a time. With the budget constraints of the show it is hard to imagine that they would waste money making comms that they didn’t need.
That being said it is still possible that Desilu indeed did make comms but the problem with the theory (and yes, it’s only a theory) is that there is not proof. The one long-shot screen cap from “Return to Tomorrow” is certainly inconclusive at best. On film a shiny reflective object (such as a midplate) appears larger the further away it is from the camera. It is simple physics; the reflected light spreads out making the object appear larger the further away you are (or the camera). I will however go to that episode on Blu-Ray and look at the scene frame-by-frame and see if there is any evidence whatsoever of this being a non-Wah comm.
The problem with your argument is that you have a lot of conjecture, hearsay and theories but no hard evidence to back it up. Again just because Desilu made tricorders (because there were only two originals) and phasers (because they needed more) is not evidence that they also made comms. The Dywer assertion you are making really doesn’t hold any weight because it is unverified. Verification is screen-caps that without question positively identify the comm and tracing the chain of ownership back to the production. In any case you seem to be confusing speculation with fact. You have provided plenty of speculation and theory regarding your comm but no conclusive rock solid facts. That is the frustration here coupled with the fact that you refuse to post meaningful photos of a comm that at this point your ownership is in question. I am sorry to write so much but I want you to know that my insistence for proof has nothing to do with any animosity or conspiracy against you. Honestly I have enjoyed your site for years but there are many errors on it. If you were open to discussion about such things it could benefit you and your site and also the Trek community in general. Unfortunately you refuse to let that happen for reasons that totally escape me. I find that group research is much more productive and efficient. Let’s be honest; nobody knows everything and discussion always stimulates discovery.
Consider this an olive branch and a chance for you to step-up and join a group of people who are only interested in getting to the truth and further our understanding of the original show. Your dogmatic “I’m right and to hell with anyone who disagrees with me” attitude is accomplishing nothing. I will try to see evidence of this “Desilu” comm in the “Return to Tomorrow” episodes and will gladly post any evidence that conflicts with the general consensus. If you have any other appearances on screen of these proposed Desilu comms please let me know and I will research them as well and post the results here.
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Well, from my perspective, I have much in the way of evidence including authentication from Dwyer, very positive feedback from Greg Jein and from others I truly believe have great expertise (IMHO, folks with much more knowledge than that shown by many members here); tons of perfect dimensional matches to an impeccable screen used Dwyer comm that would have been virtually impossible to reproduce over 30 years ago when the info was not available; many compelling screenshots and verification of screen used construction techniques. And of course, very compelling evidence of screen used Desilu midgrades as shown on my site. So I am confident in my opinion.
I do think it is time to move on. Thanks for your insights.
Very Best,
Gerald
I do think it is time to move on. Thanks for your insights.
Very Best,
Gerald
You would really have to ask Greg. I'm just honestly passing along the info as I received it; and as it's been documented on my site for quite a while. Perhaps he saw some telltale signs / similar handiwork in his examination of other props; perhaps ones in his own collection, that prompted the Desilu reference. I was just being the messenger in that quote from Greg.
And the Dwyer authentication does have all those great photos of our props taken together inside his home.
Also, of course you know that there are no Desilu issued COAs for any TOS props or costumes. Just the words of the production crew members that have continuously owned the props for 40 years. Why don't you argue that they were replicas created in the late 1990's or early 2000's from higher res screen caps? I obviously believe they are authentic; but since you feel it acceptable to bring up minute points about special glue with Greg Jeins remarks, why not ask the same level of overly skeptical question for any TOS prop ever sold from the year 2000 onwards without a 1960's letter from Desilu.
Very Best,
Gerald
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feek61
Sr Member
In the Dwyer photos his original comm is perfectly in focus and yours is out-of-focus so it's hard to tell much of anything. Certainly MANY props have been sold that were fakes (many of which you have posted on your site) which makes what we are doing here important by verifying with screen matches and the chain of ownership of the piece. If the comm is coming from a person associated with the show or can be traced back to that person, it looks correct and matches other verified pieces and can be screen matched; that is the best we can do at this point.
As I said I would I watched the "Return to Tomorrow" sequence, frame-by-frame many times and there is just no conclusive evidence that this comm is different from the others. Look at this photo from the same scene you referred to:
To prove my point about reflected light making objects appear bigger; look at the bezel ring. It looks very big compared to the size that we know they were. This one looks to be nearly as wide as the antenna. Is your oversized? This is simply a result of the set lighting reflecting off of a shiny surface and the "spreading out" of the light makes the shiny part look bigger.
To further illustrate here are two clips from "The Omega Glory." Notice how big the mid-plate looks in the top photo of this comm (identified at "Theta" at Herocomm.com) but in the bottom photo it looks normal. These two screen caps were just a frame or two apart.
In my world the "Return to Tomorrow" cap is not even close to proving anything. It took me all of 10 mins. to find an example of the same effect in a different episode and I suspect it would be easy to find many others. This is not proof of the existence of Desilu comms.
On another note I did see an interesting green flash from one of the jewels in the "Return to Tomorrow" sequence which could help ID this comm or at least eliminate the possibility of certain comms that have missing jewels at that location.
To close I want to say that I would love to find evidence of Desilu comms however unlikely. I know the TOS series intimately and I am pretty sure there are not screen caps that can forward the theory that they existed. I'm sorry but proof is essential and there is none. You have some interesting theories and I am glad you feel your piece is real; I hope it is. The sad truth is that of the documentation that you have posted about it here and on your site do not prove anything other that it could be a Desilu made prop; if there were such a thing.
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Hi James...
I'm not sure what other forums you are refering to...but as a moderator at the TPZ ( Trek Prop Zone) You will never be insulted like that there.
What legal action are you talking about? Seems a bit harsh.
I'm not sure what other forums you are refering to...but as a moderator at the TPZ ( Trek Prop Zone) You will never be insulted like that there.
What legal action are you talking about? Seems a bit harsh.
Hi Will:
Remarkable screen capture find! Very insightful.
But truly, in that image Shatner is pulling the communicator quickly from Captain Tracy's hand and the glare of light is visible and just lasts a split second! The communicator is moving on a curved path as it tilts with the motion of Shatner's hand.
Is that not different than the "Return To Tomorrow" screenshots where the size of the extra thick midplate is maintained on screen over significant motion / change of magnification. And Shatner's body even rotates and there is a zoom in the scene - certainly the comm is viewed at multiple angles and the midplate is still large. It's absolutely not a split second flash of light.
Very good flare observation, though!
Very Best,
Gerald
Remarkable screen capture find! Very insightful.
But truly, in that image Shatner is pulling the communicator quickly from Captain Tracy's hand and the glare of light is visible and just lasts a split second! The communicator is moving on a curved path as it tilts with the motion of Shatner's hand.
Is that not different than the "Return To Tomorrow" screenshots where the size of the extra thick midplate is maintained on screen over significant motion / change of magnification. And Shatner's body even rotates and there is a zoom in the scene - certainly the comm is viewed at multiple angles and the midplate is still large. It's absolutely not a split second flash of light.
Very good flare observation, though!
Very Best,
Gerald
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