"Star Trek Phase II/New Voyages" gets C&D over Spinrad script

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by phase pistol, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  2. JediG60racer

    JediG60racer Sr Member

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    "don't awake the sleeping dragon that is Trek fandom"... LOL!!! Funniest quote of the day!!

    Because obviously Trekkies have such pull to explain the myriad of Star Trek shows currently on TV> Oh wait, no. Reality check. Hello.
     
  3. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    Sorry but the Cawley group has lost their way. Unlikely I would watch anymore of their stuff anyway. Blood And Fire sucked.

    And there may still be a "sleeping dragon", but the dragon is old and fat and they've built a mote around Paramount.
     
  4. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    I agree with Mic. The Trek fandom doesn't have the strength it used to anymore that and Paramount just doesn't care about the fans anymore. Tends to happen over the years as the people running things retire and new people take over.
     
  5. terryr

    terryr Sr Member

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    Trek fans only know about fake computers from the future, not real hacking.
     
  6. CB2001

    CB2001 Master Member

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    I agree. I mean, I grew up watching the original series, the movies, TNG and I tried Voyager for a while (until UPN decided to switch from the big satellite to the smaller ones). The fact that they allowed Abrams to make his abomination (and the upcoming sequel to his abomination), as well as the poor quality of the shows have become with each version done after TNG, only shows that Star Trek has become weakened by Paramount watering down their prize franchise. It'd be like McDonalds taking their Big Mac, and then after every two years, making changes to it, such as removing items like the "secret sauce", lettuce and pickles, replacing the sesame seed bun with two pieces of white bread and then making the meat of the pad too big that you can't even bite into it.

    And if Paramount isn't going to do another show and at least attempt to make it a good one, then why intervene on a fan-made production, especially when the fans making it have the sense to do the show justice a lot more than Paramount and CBS ever would?
     
  7. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    Well, I don't really have a problem with how Trek has been handled at all. Sure there have been some forehead slappers along the way.

    It's an impossible task from the get go. To get the reasonable amount of consistant quality we have gotten, over the amount of time that has passed, is practically a miracle.

    My thanks to anyone who has ever worked on any of the shows or movies.
     
  8. Commander Max

    Commander Max Sr Member

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    I have to agree, ST for the most part is a dead franchise. If it was still viable Abrams STNO would have done much better and his next ST STINO would have been out already. Nor would Enterprise have been cancelled.
     
  9. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Trek has been dead for years.

    To absent friends.....:cheers
     
  10. Mr Walker

    Mr Walker Active Member

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    I enjoyed the Abrams movie....
     
  11. tim

    tim Sr Member

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    CBS is trying to kill off the final shoots of true Star Trek. New Voyages was the only Trek I could bear to watch after JJTrek.
     
  12. Michael Bergeron

    Michael Bergeron Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Never cared for the Cawley stuff, it just tries too hard to be something it isn't.

    Still though, if a script is sitting around that will never be used why not let them?
     
  13. Commander Max

    Commander Max Sr Member

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    Letting them use it gets into some legal issues.

    But then trying to recreate the original Trek(without having permission) is going to get you into some serious legal issues. The only thing that saved these fanboy films is the property owners could care less.

    Why they are cracking down now is anybodies guess, but the other guys doing this stuff should be very concerned.

    It kind of reminds me of what happened to ST props back in the nineties.
     
  14. tripoli

    tripoli Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Maybe they should switch to doing Star Wars films, I know Uncle George does not mind such. ;)
     
  15. darthgordon

    darthgordon Sr Member

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    Okay, first, there seems to be some confusion here.

    Star Trek television is now controlled by CBS.
    Star Trek movies are under the control of Paramount.

    CBS has only asked that they do not produce the script. They have not stopped Cawley's fan Trek.

    As to how much CBS and Paramount care about the fans... they never really have. There are individuals within the organizations that have cared about the fans and regarded Trek very highly, but as a whole, Star Trek's purpose has always been to make money for them.

    Don't forget the days when Paramount began raiding conventions and removing any unlicensed merchandise. Or when Viacom had stepped in and closed every fan site, stating that they could not use any Star Trek image or symbols.

    I don't personally see Star Trek as dead. In recent years we've actually seen a bit of a surge in popularity. More and more licensed merchandise is released each year. We've had TOS remastered for Bluray and soon TNG.

    Now as far as actually producing new TV shows... who knows what the future will bring. I'm sure it'll be back. Now whether or not it'll be good, remains to be seen.
     
  16. MattMunson

    MattMunson Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    what darthgordon said.

    How can anyone say trek is dead when the last movie made SOOOO much money, and they're making another one?

    While many fans may not like the way the franchise is being handled, it's certainly not dead. if anything, it's more popular then ever. Just not popular among the people who have liked it since the sixties. Sorry!
     
  17. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    Most of the old fans like me, that I know, are just fine with JJTrek. Don't know who is taking a poll though. Just more unsubstantiated RPFacts, I guess.
     
  18. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    It's like everything else in entertainment, the franchise has changed to meet the needs of the new fans. It's that way in the game industry and just look at what passes for rock music these days. The new take on trek could very well get better as time goes on, the first movie in a franchise isn't always the best.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012
  19. GeneralFROSTY

    GeneralFROSTY Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I love Abrams Trek and look forward to the sequel.
     
  20. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Very easily.

    The franchise has been played out but what do you expect from a concept that has been exploited for over 45 years.

    Will it ever truely die?, only time will tell but you have to admit that the franchise is almost going back to one of it's "hibernation" stages.

    I remember the 90's with Movies, 2 series on, and doing a Trek con every weekend.

    That is clearly not the case now.



     
  21. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ...and most of the old fans I know see it for the abomination it is! :lol

    I guess it falls into which catagory fan you are, one who thinks any thing slapped together with the Trek label is all right, or one who likes something more thoughtfully put together :unsure


     
  22. Vermithrax 4

    Vermithrax 4 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think that Trek is played out and needs a nice, long rest. It's been beaten to death, nothing can go on forever. I think Cawley and his team have done a more than fair job of being faithful to the OS for all us Old Timers who still treasure it.
     
  23. SSgt Burton

    SSgt Burton Sr Member

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    Veiled insult at best.

    I've watched Trek since the 70s. Saw every film in the theater. Watched every series (with the exception of Enterprise) in its initial television run. Star Trek is my favourite franchise, and WOK my favourite film.

    I know the difference between fluff/crap and when a film/episode truly sends a message to make you think.

    I have to say that I was a staunch hater of Abrams' film when I first watched it.

    Having revisited it two years later, I've come to enjoy it as the entertainment it is meant to be. Emphasis on "entertainment."

    But "Trek" hasn't really been about "Trekking" since 1994... At least that is what "I" believe. TNG was for me, the last great Trek show to capture what "I" think was Roddenberry's vision of our future.

    DS9 wasn't about Trekking (and last seasons were about war and explosions). And while Voyager tried to do the Trekking essentially in reverse well... it was close but no cigar.

    But I was still entertained by both DS9 and Voyager. There were some great episodes, and once in a while there was gold.

    The films have been about baddies and space battles since '91.


    There have been times where I have thought that "If this is what Trek has become, then I would rather it stayed dead"... Sitting on my porch telling the young ones to get off my Bridge. :darnkids :lol

    But I love Star Trek! Dammit! :) I still have every series, every episode that drew me in and hooked me as a Trekkie. The new film has not changed this. How can it?

    What is funny is that in the last week I pulled out of storage a few VHS (!!!) tapes of Trek specials such as the 25th anniversary, and "Ultimate Trek: Trek's Greatest Moments" (hosted by Jason Alexander). It was a wonderfully nostalgic trip down memory lane! A time when Trek was on top of its game. As already mentioned it was a great time to be a Trek fan.

    Am I a huge fan of Abrams' film? Of course not! :lol

    However I'm not a huge fan of Nemesis, Insurrection, Enterprise or the last couple of seasons of Voyager either (and First Contact while well done, wasn't about Trekking as well).

    Trek has become less about the message and more about entertainment. And I have become "okay" with that, because I don't want Trek to fade away into nothingness.

    We will still get our "Final Frontiers", "Insurrections", "Samaritan Snares" and "Way to Edens"... So long as we get an occasional "City on the Edge", "Best of Both Worlds" or "Wrath of Khan", I’ll continue to support the franchise.


    Hailing frequencies closed. ;)


    Kevin
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  24. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    Since you seem to think you have the final word on what is good and what isn't.

    Why don't you write and produce just ONE good Star Trek episode?

    I'd really like to see that. I mean you know what makes good Star Trek for everyone. It should be a snap.
     
  25. Lost in Trek

    Lost in Trek Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I know that lots of folks like to praise TOS as being a message show and certainly that does play into the fan following today. But let's be clear, Trek has always been about entertaining people first and messages second. Roddenberry was very much aware that if it wasn't entertaining it wouldn't stay on the air
    (at least in the 60s he knew that. In later years he convinced himself that Trek was about everybody being more evolved and getting along all the time. Kinda made me want to ask him if he ever watched TOS).

    Spock and McCoy fought just about everytime they were in a room together. And if you noticed each threw out a lot racial insults. The crew disagreed with each other, got angry from time to time and made mistakes. Women were treated more as sex objects that full fleged memebers of the crew. I cringe whenever Uhura has a "Captain, I'm scared" line. Can you imagine Scotty ever saying that?

    Now I love Trek, especially TOS. But I take the show for what it was and is.

    Oh, and I can tell you I have had people telling me Trek was dead for the last 20 years. And yet, I have a new big budget movie to look forward to mnext year. Go figure.
     
  26. JMChladek

    JMChladek Sr Member

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    I just did a little research on this and CBS's beef doesn't seem to be addressed at Cawley's group, but it is rather part of an ongoing dispute with Norm Spinrad himself and apparently the two parties came to some agreement in late February on the matter which apparently settled it:

    Norman Spinrad At Large: STAR TREK--He Walked Among US--NORMAN SPINRAD'S LONG-LOST UNPRODUCED CLASSIC STAR TREK SCREENPLAY

    So I wouldn't panic as it doesn't appear as though CBS Paramount is going to shut fan done Trek shows down. Rather it looks like to me that a byproduct of whatever agreement Spinrad and CBS came to ended up resulting in a casualty, and that was production of the script by Cawley's group. I'm guessing it was an undisclosed sum of money and CBS has the rights to the script outright now. Norm apparently got what HE wanted out of the deal at least.
     
  27. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Sorry if you feel that way but that was not my intent.

    When I used to do Cons there were always arguments about which incarnation was "Trek" and was not.

    Plenty of fans loved TOS and hated TNG, hated TOS and loved Voyager etc, etc.

    Myself DS-9 was the last of the incarnations I could stand even though I watched them all.

    When the arguments became heated I used to break out my IDIC medallion and say to each there own.


     
  28. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Homie don't play that Mike and you should know that! :lol

    You know you could'nt handle my Trek anyway. ;)


     
  29. eaviii

    eaviii Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Not that I am 2 disrupted years into writing a TOS arcade build, but am I correct in thinking this doesn't necessarily reflect a shutdown of the nonprofit fanmade stuff as suggested above?

    Doc
     
  30. Michael Bergeron

    Michael Bergeron Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Fact of the matter is that Trek is a very mixed bag. Some parts of it you may hate and others you may love but there really is something there for just about everyone.

    Myself I've only ever cared for the TV shows that had an Enterprise in it. Didn't care for DS9 or Voyager at all but liked TOS, TNG, & Enterprise (as flawed as I thought Enterprise was at times I liked it).

    For movies I don't like the JJ Trek but it's certainly not the worst Trek film by a long shot. I thought Nemesis was awful and Insurrection was forgettable (REALLY forgettable, the only thing I remember about it is the shuttle chase near the start).

    On the flip side I liked Generations while most others seem to hate it. All of the original Trek movies have parts that I like and I enjoy them all despite some of them being clearly of lower quality than others.
     
  31. Alan Castillo

    Alan Castillo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'm both.

    I'll drool over anything with a Trek Label :lol

    I think sometimes we take the whole movie-world a tad too seriously, and look into the nitty-gritties a teeny bit too much, taking them, on occasion, dangerously way too personally.

    I'll discuss any detail of Trek to oblivion with anyone, analyse it, turn it inside out, hypothesise, etc, but at the end of the day, it's fun and entertainment, and so long as it does that for me, anything goes :thumbsup

    Surely to many's horror, I squealed in genuine delight like a kid when Yoda did his ninja display thing in one of the 'latest' movies :lol

    Then again, I loved Avatar too :lol

    Oh, and Popeye :lol:lol

    I'm a philistine, and I can't help it :lol:lol:lol
     
  32. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well at least you are OUR awesome prop-making philistine! :D


     
  33. Alan Castillo

    Alan Castillo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    :lol

    :p

    (we really should have a big-hug emoticon too :lol)

    Oh .. and I love over-using emoticons too :lol
     
  34. Rikarus

    Rikarus Well-Known Member

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    What Kevin Said!


    p.s. I kinda enjoy Cawley Trek, for doing it themselves and funding it themselves it's pretty awsome!
     
  35. eaviii

    eaviii Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Soooooo . . . Now that it seems firmly established that some people like Star Trek entirely or only certain parts or not at all . . .

    Based on the factual aspects of the thread with regard to the New Voyages getting slapped with a C&D, my general sense is this is not expected to interfere with other fan projects but rather is a specific issue with the screenwriter.

    Is that the gist?

    Doc
     
  36. JMChladek

    JMChladek Sr Member

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    Well, based on what I've been reading, that seems to be the case.

    I know return you to your regularly unscheduled "this Trek sucks, change it" thread. ;)
     
  37. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    ...and it looks like it was Spinrad that sold it to CBS, rather than CBS going at Cawley.

    It's a business.
     
  38. SSgt Burton

    SSgt Burton Sr Member

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    No problem. My fault too.


    Oh man do I remember those arguments! Especially about TOS vs TNG. :facepalm

    There were some great Trek conventions back then in the early 90s though.


    Indeed. I've always felt that Trek belongs on the small screen. At least if you had a stinker episode, you only had to wait a week to see if there would be an improvement in the writing. Rather than waiting two years (or more) only to be let down.


    Insurrection is completely unwatchable. Horrible. I tried maybe a couple of years or so ago, and turned it off after maybe 15 minutes. And I can sit through watching Final Frontier every so often (usually when I get into watching all the movies in release order)! Final Frontier while poorly, poorly executed still tried to return to the TOS' roots.


    While certainly not top three, I think Generations is okay too. At least it had something to do with a mysterious phenomenon... as contrived as the concept was. :lol


    Kevin
     
  39. NakedMoleRat

    NakedMoleRat Sr Member

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  40. eaviii

    eaviii Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thanks man got a bit worried there. At least a little more so than usual.

    Doc
     

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