Star Trek: Discovery (2017)

[Bloop]

1. I enjoy the show, that's all that matters, I don't feel the need to give a long winded essay to try and sway your opinion. It's yours.

2. You sure don't have to love it, but you do seem to love to hate it.

Your post was reponding to ALLEY, but since your comments here have been directed at all of us who posted our issues with STD, I felt compelled to reply.

Like you, I don't need to "sway" anyone with "long-winded essays." But in describing other's posts in this way, it suggests to me that you are putting down others for sharing their opinions, mainly because they don't match your own. I've made some lengthy posts here because this is a thread that was specifically created to discuss our opinions of STD. I don't feel that your posts are keeping with the spirit of the thread. You can express your opinion without expressing superiority or derision towards others. I can't speak for eveyone here, but I feel my posts, while harsh in criticism, never put down anyone for liking the show, while you seem to put down us for posting our displeasure with it. You can infer whatever you like from my opinions, but I don't feel that I've criticized anyone else's opinions here.

However, I do feel justified in critizing a TV show for it's writing, or it's actor's performances. While this is a work of science fiction, there is still a framework in which to work in that should be upheld. That framework was made even more constricting by creating a Star Trek series set within a very specific time period of the shared history of the TV shows and movies that came before it.

I'm always willing to accept that the laws of science will be bent, even broken, in works of sci-fi. Any work of fiction can make similar consideration in their writing, and despite that, can still yield excellent, enjoyable results.

What I don't accept is lazy writing, or outright bad writing. That's the biggest problem I have with STD, and I've stated my reasons within this thread. For others, I can understand that they can enjoy STD without thinking about the details. But for myself, and I assume many others, the faulty science, flawed motivations and decisions by it's characters, poor character development, inconsistencies and holes in plot, and inconsistencies in general within the established history of the Star Trek universe, all diminish a show that we truly wanted to enjoy.

For people to question why we would continue to watch something we "hate," the answer us simple: we wanted to like it, and we wanted to give it more opportunities to entertain us and "make sense," which is also what the creators of STD explicitly said they would do. For many of us, that didn't happen. So, while a TV show owes nothing to me, I still feel upset in investing time watching and waiting for a resolution that was promised but didn't deliver.

Not everything in life is good, not everything is art. We can criticize things because we want them to be better. I realize not every critique is necessarily valid either. But I will defend my own opinions. I feel justified in watching STD for two seasons, and still stating my problems with the show. There were things I liked, which I mentioned in addition to my criticism, and were part of the reason I kept watching.

Sorry if you feel this us just another "long winded essay." I honestly don't expect you to be "swayed" by it, and I don't owe anyone any other explanation of why I feel it's OK to post my thoughts here.

 

[Hammer3246]

Your post was reponding to ALLEY, but since your comments here have been directed at all of us who posted our issues with STD, I felt compelled to reply.

Like you, I don't need to "sway" anyone with "long-winded essays." But in describing other's posts in this way, it suggests to me that you are putting down others for sharing their opinions, mainly because they don't match your own. I've made some lengthy posts here because this is a thread that was specifically created to discuss our opinions of STD. I don't feel that your posts are keeping with the spirit of the thread. You can express your opinion without expressing superiority or derision towards others. I can't speak for eveyone here, but I feel my posts, while harsh in criticism, never put down anyone for liking the show, while you seem to put down us for posting our displeasure with it. You can infer whatever you like from my opinions, but I don't feel that I've criticized anyone else's opinions here.

However, I do feel justified in critizing a TV show for it's writing, or it's actor's performances. While this is a work of science fiction, there is still a framework in which to work in that should be upheld. That framework was made even more constricting by creating a Star Trek series set within a very specific time period of the shared history of the TV shows and movies that came before it.

I'm always willing to accept that the laws of science will be bent, even broken, in works of sci-fi. Any work of fiction can make similar consideration in their writing, and despite that, can still yield excellent, enjoyable results.

What I don't accept is lazy writing, or outright bad writing. That's the biggest problem I have with STD, and I've stated my reasons within this thread. For others, I can understand that they can enjoy STD without thinking about the details. But for myself, and I assume many others, the faulty science, flawed motivations and decisions by it's characters, poor character development, inconsistencies and holes in plot, and inconsistencies in general within the established history of the Star Trek universe, all diminish a show that we truly wanted to enjoy.

For people to question why we would continue to watch something we "hate," the answer us simple: we wanted to like it, and we wanted to give it more opportunities to entertain us and "make sense," which is also what the creators of STD explicitly said they would do. For many of us, that didn't happen. So, while a TV show owes nothing to me, I still feel upset in investing time watching and waiting for a resolution that was promised but didn't deliver.

Not everything in life is good, not everything is art. We can criticize things because we want them to be better. I realize not every critique is necessarily valid either. But I will defend my own opinions. I feel justified in watching STD for two seasons, and still stating my problems with the show. There were things I liked, which I mentioned in addition to my criticism, and were part of the reason I kept watching.

Sorry if you feel this us just another "long winded essay." I honestly don't expect you to be "swayed" by it, and I don't owe anyone any other explanation of why I feel it's OK to post my thoughts here.

Post away, hate away, do as you please no one is stopping you and I'm certainly not trying to sway or criticize anyone's opinion here. I just find it curious people wasting their time and energy to hate something as mundane as a TV show.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Interesting.

I just received a survey from CBS regarding Discovery.

One of the questions asked was whether I would tune in IF Discovery was renewed for a Third Season.

I thought that it had already been confirmed as renewed for a Third Season????

 

[Bloop]

Interesting.

I just received a survey from CBS regarding Discovery.

One of the questions asked whether I would tune in IF Discovery was renewed for a Third Season.

I thought that it had already been renewed for a Third Season????

Hmm, maybe they'll pivot, seeing as how there seems to be a lot of support for a Pike/Enterprise series. They already have sets, costumes, main cast...makes me wonder.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Hmm, maybe they'll pivot, seeing as how there seems to be a lot of support for a Pike/Enterprise series. They already have sets, costumes, main cast...makes me wonder.

I am sure a few of you may have received this survey from All Access today as well.

One of the questions it did ask was which character I liked the most with a follow-up question asking for a write-up as to why I liked said character....I responded with the choice of “Pike”, since he was one of the characters of choice offered, with the suggestion that they consider doing just as you suggested.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Duplicate

 

[kalkamel]

Wow, if they cancel STD and give us a Pike Enterprise show, that would probably appeal to more folks. Although I have to admit I would feel sorry for the STD actors, they will be devastated since they already got the assurance of a third season. They did a good job despite the material given to them.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Here’s the link to the survey from CBS All-Access:

https://cbs.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_3O8mfNBcZBey35j?et_cid=80175&et_rid=71469621

It also references measuring your interest in the Picard series and “Lower Decks”, as well as other All-Access shows; however, Discovery is the focus of the survey.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Wow, if they cancel STD and give us a Pike Enterprise show, that would probably appeal to more folks. Although I have to admit I would feel sorry for the STD actors, they will be devastated since they already got the assurance of a third season. They did a good job despite the material given to them.

Agreed—I don’t fault the actors, or the behind the scenes personnel. The visual effects, props, and set design are top-notch; the money is clearly on the screen. The writers and show runners have done them a disservice, in my opinion.

This is, by far, the most expensive “Star Trek” snow ever made; and one of the most expensive shows on TV right now—those are facts. Can you imagine TOS, DS9, and TNG quality scripts with a Discovery budget? Such a wasted opportunity

 

[Gary Weaver II]

Question from the survey...

What are your favorite TV shows? Enter your top three favorites.

Star Trek: The Orville

 

[AJK001]

I've noticed this a few times in both this thread and The Orville thread that people who like STD really don't like The Orville and people that like The Orville don't like STD. This isn't hard and fast as there are people that like both shows but it seems every time I read someone saying they don't like one show they are praising the other show. I really did try and like STD but I just couldn't do it and strangely enough it doesn't really have to do with it not being canon, I just don't like the stories and the writing plus I can't stand Michael Burnham. I didn't like all of the other Trek shows as I could never get into DS9 and I liked Voyager, I know that makes me a weirdo.

 

[patrickivan]

I have to say that being a Star Trek fan since the first episode I saw as a child on my grandparent's black and white (The Doomsday Machine), and watching every Star Trek episode of everything since (even Voyager- blah), I was so incredibly excited for Discovery after such a long hiatus from TV.

And clearly no one in writing and production were Star Trek fans, or watched Star Trek, or really gave a ****. They pandered to those who would watch pretty much any teen soap opera, and called it Star Trek to get extra viewers. They had no real ideas for the show. Season 1 was a disaster by any stretch of the imagination for TV in general. The end of season 1 was a hook to keep Star Trek fans and had no relevance to non-fans.

I stuck around excited for Season 2... More click bait.

Not every Star Trek episode was great. I can't even watch some anymore. TNG is far better (even the hated first 2 seasons). DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, were all far superior to Discovery, despite their flaws.

But Discovery is just: Here's the story we think we want to tell. It can be done in 1-2 episodes, but we'll stretch it out with an incredible amount of fluffy soap opera useless angst and drama for 10 more episodes. We don't give a flying **** about continuity in the least despite having instant access to information about more Trek in all of Trek's history. We're not even going to try to call it science fiction despite our very limited season. So let's just **** it and click bait every episode to keep viewers coming.

And again, we'll call it Star Trek for no reason other than to get a few extra viewers.

They could have called this series: Space Discovery. Changed the Starfleet ship designs, and removed the insignias, and it could have been their own unique series.

BUT- that wouldn't have worked. They NEEDED a hook, so they stole Star Trek and pretty much ruined the franchise. JJ did a horrible job, but at least it kind of felt like Star Trek at times. Discovery doesn't even try.

Regardless. I gave it to 2 season, and having maybe 4 good episodes out of 26 over 2 years, is NOT good viewing. I'll wait to the end of season 3 and see what FANS of Star Trek have to say and decide from there.

I really tried. But ****. Michael. Tilly. Speech after tear filled speech. What the **** is this???? The writing just makes me cringe so badly. Like it was written by people who are inspired by watching kittens with half a brain play with a sting. Yaaaawwwwwwn.

 

[robn1]

Which four episodes were the "good" ones?

 

[LordHorusNL]

Which four episodes were the "good" ones?

The ones he didn't watch

 

[Lightning]

I'll wait to the end of season 3 and see what FANS of Star Trek have to say and decide from there.

Since season 3 will have a different show runner, and a radically different time period (so less worry about canon), It's got a better chance than usual of actually being good. Just the world building of the 33rd century could be very interesting.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

This is pretty funny: Origin of the Kling-Orks:

 

[Captain Dunsel]

If the “Discovery” writers remade Spock’s death scene in “The Wrath Of Khan”:

A countdown clock starts at counting down from the 3 minute mark on the main view screen on the bridge.

Kirk: “Scotty! We need warp speed in three minutes or we’re all dead!”

Uhura: “No response sir...”

Kirk: “Mr. Sulu...get us out of here—best possible speed!”

Spock rises slowly from his chair with tears welling up in his eyes and calls out to the bridge crew.

Spock: “Admiral—I must sacrifice myself to fix the warp drive and save the ship. This is why I’m here. This is why the Red Angel saved me. Michael always taught me that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”

Kirk: “Everyone stop what you are doing and stand at attention and put all of your eyes on Captain Spock!”

Spock then goes to each person on the bridge and shares fond memories with each of them and specifically reminds each of them of how important he had been in each of their lives. He then allows each of them in turn to tell him how they are lost without him and how ironic it is that he, a Vulcan, has taught them how to be human. Tears continue to well up in Spock’s eyes.

Spock: “I love you all. Goodbye”.

Spock then exits the bridge.

Kirk: “I wish I had met this ‘Michael’. Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, she sounds the most....human.”

Spock then walks to the docking port behind the bridge where Sarek and Amanda, after hearing he is about to die, have miraculously travelled to the Enterprise and wait for him. Beneath tears, Sarek apologizes for everything he has done and how painful it must have been for Spock to have had him as a father. Amanda is reassured by Spock that he always loved her at least 97.6% more than he loved Sarek. Now wiping away tears from his cheeks, Spock takes the elevator down a few decks where he exits to take a service ladder the rest of the way to engineering.

Before he opens the hatch to the ladder, he is approached by Sybok who, also having learned of Spock’s impending demise, has travelled to the ship. Both exchange memories and tears fall. Sybok also tells Spock that it was he who put Sybok on his path and taught him how to love. Spock then opens the hatch and descends down the ladder to engineering.

Upon arriving in engineering all personnel immediately stop their attempts to repair the Enterprise and stand at attention. Again, one by one, Spock approaches each of them and through tears allows them to tell him how important he has been in all of their lives and how lost they were before they met him.

Spock: “I love you all.”

Spock then approaches McCoy. The two immediately embrace each other, weeping. McCoy then recounts every argument they ever had and how he was misguided and foolish in each instance and asks for Spock’s forgiveness.

McCoy: “You are the center of my universe, Spock. I love you as a brother.”

Spock: “I know. It’s only logical. Everything you are is because of me.”

Spock then nerve pinches McCoy and applies a mind meld to McCoy’s face.

Spock then turns to the unconscious Scotty and takes his gloves. He then shakes Scotty awake so that Scotty may also tell Spock how important he was to him and how he will never be the same without him.

Spock then steps onto the rotating platform leading into the deadly intermix chamber and looks up at the countdown clock.

The countdown clock reads: 2:55

5 seconds have passed since the countdown began on the bridge.

THE END

To be continued in Star Trek III....

 

[Apollo]

I hope for the love of God you told them to please stop the madness!

Interesting.

I just received a survey from CBS regarding Discovery.

One of the questions asked was whether I would tune in IF Discovery was renewed for a Third Season.

I thought that it had already been confirmed as renewed for a Third Season????

 

[patrickivan]

Since season 3 will have a different show runner, and a radically different time period (so less worry about canon), It's got a better chance than usual of actually being good. Just the world building of the 33rd century could be very interesting.

And season 2 was clearly for the sole purpose to get them out of an era that has established continuity. They had no clue what they were getting into, and I swear, only picked the name Star Trek and the era, as click bait.

Now they'll be in a completely established time period where they can throw out the baby with the bath water and not have to worry about continuity.

The problem is that they still should have to write Star Trek stories, but they won't. And the sole source of drama seems to be interpersonal conflict.

Season 2 Discovered what? That time travel is apparently a massively known thing and Michael had to fulfil her destiny to save the universe. THE ******* UNIVERSE. Destiny.

Oh, and no one will know about Discovery or the Crew because some people were ordered never to talk about it. Space Stations, builders, contractors, families, reports, fleet records, other Federation members that came into contact with anyone from Discovery EVER. All just a massive cover-up to hide their existence and existence of anything that happened.

Right.

Just rename the show, Space Adventure. Get rid of any Star Fleet/ Star Trek badges, icons, et c. They can keep the 1950's uniforms since they don't look like anything Star Trek. And they can just start from scratch with their own unique space soap opera drama for teens.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

When we talk about what is “missing” in Discovery, it isn’t the actors (although the Tilly actor may be unsalvageable at this point), it isn’t the production quality, it isn’t the prop or production designs...(well, maybe not the Starfleet track suit uniforms) all of them are suitable; it’s the lack of great characters and adherence to a legacy of great writing.

I stumbled onto this video today and it pretty much covers the great writing, characters, and inspiration that the current show-runners seem to have no awareness or appreciation of. This is really what is missing and what the dull, monotone lectures by Michael strive to try to live up to but ultimately fall short of with no wit, irony, or insight into anything...just hectoring low-brow lectures that are as deep as a bath tub: