Solo: A Star Wars Story

[Axlotl]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

And should the arbiter of the SWIQ none sense really be someone who has hated all SW films since 1980?

Yes. Because the real nonsense is everything that came after.

With the exception of 50% of ROTJ. Half of that movie isn't too bad.

I like the SWIQ concept. I wish I'd thought of it myself, because it's how I've felt about SW, GL, and SW fans since those abominable special editions.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Yes. Because the real nonsense is everything that came after.

With the exception of 50% of ROTJ. Half of that movie isn't too bad.

I like the SWIQ concept. I wish I'd thought of it myself, because it's how I've felt about SW, GL, and SW fans since those abominable special editions.

It's really just baiting and trolling people who are actually fans of the franchise.

 

[Snikt]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

It's really just baiting and trolling people who are actually fans of the franchise.

Sounds like something someone with a low SWIQ would say.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Sounds like something someone with a low SWIQ would say.

Exactly.

 

[The Wook]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Well I totally agree with you that ANH and ESB are masterpieces, and I think a lot of people would think the same however, there are some people who do generally like ROTJ or TFA etc. better. And not only for nostalgia but they generally think its a better movie (although nostalgia can play a huge part in it) Are they wrong? Maybe these people think Han is a better character for surrendering his blaster to the teddy bears. I can't tell these people that they are wrong because that's what they like. If it moves them the same way ANH/ESB moved me then how can they be wrong as to what Star Wars is the best one for them. In my opinion I think the SWIQ can possibly work for people like us who find the first 2 Star Wars the best, but I don't think I can generalize and say that it will work for everyone.

Then you don't believe in absolute truth. Which is your prerogative. But you're mistaken. The theatrical cuts of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back are the only two perfect SW films. That is an absolute truth. If someone says otherwise, then they are mistaken. And have a low SWIQ. (Again, that does not apply to people who like another SW film the best of all, only for nostalgia reasons, but acknowledge that it has a lot of low-SWIQ elements, unlike the perfect theatrical cuts of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back.)

Let's focus on the Han and ewok scene for a minute. Nitz is right, it's meant as a character building moment for Han: they get caught in a very silly way by teddy bears. Han's first instinct is to draw his weapon and fight his way out. Luke, being more astute than Han, quickly realizes these ridiculous creatures could actually be helpful so he suggests to Han that they play along for the time being. Like Obi-Wan in the first movie, Luke realizes "there are alternatives to fighting."

Were you really going to admire Han if he shot a bunch of child-like teddy bears down? He's a better man than that. Is the whole scene overtly silly and a step down from the quality of story telling we got in SW and Empire? Absolutely, the ewoks in general, and this scene in particular, are embarrassingly juvenile. But whether we like it or not... hold onto your holochess pieces, Wook... thematically it works for the character's overall arc and the story Lucas is telling in ROTJ.

I get what Lucas was trying to do there. But it's ridiculous, and Han would never surrender his blaster and allow himself to be roasted on a spit by teddy bears with spears. Just as he would never walk out on to that bridge and allow himself to suffer a punk's death by the hand of his evil son. And just as he would never allow Greedo to get off a shot in the cantina. I mean, Lucas, or Disney, can make up anything they want about a character's arc. But it doesn't mean that it's right and that it belongs in a SW movie. And in these three examples, all it did was turn Han Solo into a wuss. And Han Solo acting like a wuss, does not belong in a SW movie.

Weee-e-elllll . . . as much as I disagree with pretty much every single thing The Wook has said in this thread (or in the TLJ thread or in the TFA thread, for that matter) - Han was in a situation where, if he didn't take action, his captors were imminently going to cook him (alive) and (presumably) then eat him. That seems like a fine time to take action to defend yourselves and your friends. I don't recall anyone's feelings about Luke killing the rancor changing when we found out the beast was somebody's beloved pet, and I don't recall anyone objecting when Han was preparing to shoot the dianoga in the trash compactor, or when he shot mynocks after technically parking his spaceship in their home. Let's not even get into the wampa, who lost an arm for just walking up to Luke . . . .
M

This was a high-SWIQ post, mkstewartesq.

The Wook

 

[NeoRutty]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Empire is flawless, but In Star Wars (a near perfect script) the trench run is BORING. Iconic, but too long.


And as for Ewoks not getting blasted by Han, I disagree entirely with anyone comparing that to the Rancor or Wampa. Luke knew in both those situations he was dealing with being eaten. In fact, as we saw in a cut scene, we knew the rebels were aware of what a Wampa was, and that they were deadly - The Rancor was a feeding situation, where he was put in a pit to battle... AND he watched it eat a guard pig.

Ewoks were a communicating tribe. And adorable with their little spears. Luke was never panicked because he knew he was always in control, and Han trusted him. Also one of their own was being worshipped as a god. The deck was stacked in their favor.

To kill a tribe of locals after falling into one of their animal traps (their own fault) would be completely out of character for the heroes.

 

[Greenie]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

.......and to those people......Ahh, boo hoo :cry They are just movies. Get some perspective.

I'm a fan of this 'franchise' and whether I agree or disagree with The Wook or anyone else, I understand that it doesn't matter one iota and I'll be back here tomorrow, like everyone else, to read or write more opinions safe in the belief that my SWIQ is high.

 

[The Wook]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

But the question arises: Who determines SWIQ? You? Me? This seems like a rather dictatorial ranking system, where one person is deciding for all fans what exactly a "good SW" movie is, based on his or her own biased notions of what makes SW, SW. Do Gungans belong in SW? I don't think that's for a fan to decide. The fact is they exist, and fans have to accept that, even if they don't like it.

SWIQ is determined by me. And you. But there is an absolute truth about what does and does not belong in a SW film. So if my understanding of what belongs and what doesn't belong is aligned with that absolute truth, and your understanding deviates from mine, then you have a lower SWIQ. And in that case, conversely, you believe that you have a high SWIQ, and that I have a low SWIQ. But you are mistaken. Or you're right, and I'm wrong. One of us is right, and one of us is wrong.

While I usually split 50/50 with agreeing/disagreeing with the Wook, the SWIQ thing is ridiculous.

And opinions can't be wrong. You can disagree, but an opinion can't be wrong... it's an opinion.

I'll also state that I have the most fun watching ROTJ of the original Trilogy.

Now, you are rejecting the existence of absolute truth in this matter. You say that opinions can't be wrong. Again, that's your prerogative. But you're mistaken. Opinions can be wrong...oh so very wrong.

Scenario D: JJ didn't think about putting an exchange between Leia and Chewie during scripting and didn't realize it was something they should have done until after the movie opened and someone pointed it out. Sometimes you just miss stuff, until someone with fresh eyes sees it.

If it was something smaller, I could agree that would be a possible scenario. But not something as big as this. No, the scene was shot this way because JJ's SWIQ is pitifully low, or because he was ordered to do so, and he wussed out by going along with it. I don't know which is worse.

Yeah, the problem with the SWIQ thing is that it practically reduces these movies to a mathematical equation. It leaves no room for anyone else's interpretation.

Dem Bones, you're missing the point of SWIQ.

SWIQ is predicated on there being absolute truths about what does and does not belong in a Star Wars film. Everyone has their own interpretation of what those things are. But some of those people are right, and some of those people are wrong.

The Wook

 

[NeoRutty]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

What... what is happening here? Why are we feeding this trolling? :lol

SWIQ is horse sh#t.

 

[The Wook]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

But the question arises: Who determines SWIQ? You? Me? This seems like a rather dictatorial ranking system, where one person is deciding for all fans what exactly a "good SW" movie is, based on his or her own biased notions of what makes SW, SW. Do Gungans belong in SW? I don't think that's for a fan to decide. The fact is they exist, and fans have to accept that, even if they don't like it.

Who determines SWIQ? I do.

And you do.

I think my SWIQ is infallible.

And you think your SWIQ is infallible.

But there's an absolute truth about what does and does not belong in a SW movie.

Let's say you're aligned 100% with that absolute truth. And let's say, I disagree with you half the time. Roughly speaking, your SWIQ would be twice as high as mine.

Only one person assigns SWIQ's and the appearance is two fold. Some seem issued on actual knowledge of the subject matter, and others seem satirical. You get a 'you have a high SWIQ, you have to read between the lines to figure out if it's sincere or not.

But the majority of evidence is, if you agree with him, you get a high score, if you don't, you get a low score.

I'm willing to entertain the notion, but there has to be a legitimate scoring system assigned by impartial means. Not whatever one person feels like at the moment.

Nope, there's no scoring system. SWIQ is more qualitative than quantitative.

And should the arbiter of the SWIQ none sense really be someone who has hated all SW films since 1980? I think a broader sample size provides better data.

I am not the arbiter of SWIQ. I only came up with the name. SWIQ has always existed. I just never heard anyone attempt to describe it, or label it. Bryan, you and I disagree A LOT on what should and should not be in a Star Wars movie. For that reason, I think your SWIQ is very low. And you think mine is very low. My point about SWIQ is, that there are absolute truths about what does and does not belong in SW movies. And that if I am aligned with that absolute truth, then I have a high SWIQ, and you have a low one. And vice versa.

Yes. Because the real nonsense is everything that came after.

With the exception of 50% of ROTJ. Half of that movie isn't too bad.

I like the SWIQ concept. I wish I'd thought of it myself, because it's how I've felt about SW, GL, and SW fans since those abominable special editions.

Bryan, you should listen to Axlotl--he knows the score.

The Wook

 

[Snikt]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Its funny how I completely disagree with The Wook on TFA, but with everything else I jive with, especially the SWIQ thing. Im sure if we came up with a better name for it, it would make more sense because we are applying a number(sort of) to feelings and getting what the basis of a good star wars story can and should be. That said, if ANH was one of your favorite movies, and TFA was a derivitive of that, why do you hate it so much? Not to derail the thread, but I missed it on the original run of it.

I do however think that these filmmakers have abysmally low SWIQ scores, same with the folks that made R1.

 

[Solo]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Yeah, I'm sorry, Wook, but this SWIQ stuff was funny at first, but it's run it's course.

Can't we just go back to bashing Alden again? OMG he's SOOOOOOO SHORT!!!............and I hate his smug, chipmunk cheeks.

 

[mkstewartesq]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

This was a high-SWIQ post, mkstewartesq.

While I appreciate that compliment, I gotta take issue with the following:

Just as he would never walk out on to that bridge and allow himself to suffer a punk's death by the hand of his evil son.

Are you saying you thought Han went out on that bridge to sacrifice himself, or that he was even truly aware of the danger? That wasn't the thrust of the scene at all. Rather, he went to try to convince his beloved son to return to the the light. And he thought he had succeeded, and was receiving what he believed to be Ben's surrender of his lightsaber to him. But he was tricked, and he suffered for it.

Just like in ESB, when Han thought he had the situation under control, ignored Leia's warnings and let his guard down - only to be was tricked by Lando and handed over to Vader.

So what happened in TFA was not only consistent with Solo's character, it was actually following set precedent for his character,

M

 

[The Wook]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

It's really just baiting and trolling people who are actually fans of the franchise.

Not baiting. Not trolling. Just sharing with you fellas this concept of SWIQ, and how and why I came up with it. I'm not suggesting that people like you, Bryan, who have low SWIQs, are not legitimate fans. Of course you are. But, you have a lot of wack opinions about what's okay to put in a SW movie and what isn't, and so while I do not deny your fandom, I consider to have a low SWIQ. It's nothing to be offended by. You, in turn, think I have a low SWIQ. I'm not offended. You shouldn't be, either.

Empire is flawless, but In Star Wars (a near perfect script) the trench run is BORING. Iconic, but too long.

Hey man, you have every right to say that The Phantom Menace is the only true Star Wars masterpiece, and it should be the film used to judge all other SW films, if that is your opinion.

But you'd be wrong.

.......and to those people......Ahh, boo hoo :cry They are just movies. Get some perspective.

I'm a fan of this 'franchise' and whether I agree or disagree with The Wook or anyone else, I understand that it doesn't matter one iota and I'll be back here tomorrow, like everyone else, to read or write more opinions safe in the belief that my SWIQ is high.

Attaboy, Greenie!

The Wook

 

[Bones_68]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

SWIQ is determined by me. And you. But there is an absolute truth about what does and does not belong in a SW film. So if my understanding of what belongs and what doesn't belong is aligned with that absolute truth, and your understanding deviates from mine, then you have a lower SWIQ. And in that case, conversely, you believe that you have a high SWIQ, and that I have a low SWIQ. But you are mistaken. Or you're right, and I'm wrong. One of us is right, and one of us is wrong.

The Wook

Wook, you're like the Terminator of Star Wars lore — you just keep coming no matter what we throw at you!

I can appreciate your concept of high standards but I also think you've taken it to such an extreme that even ole George Lucas at the absolute height of his own "SWIQ" (1977 – 1980) would have deemed all of this a little bit overboard.

Here's one last thought and then I'll drop it:

Two people walk into a museum and look at a painting. They both agree it's a great painting but for completely different reasons. That doesn't mean one of them is looking at it wrong because what's absolutely true for one person may not be true for the other. Eh?

 

[NeoRutty]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Hey man, you have every right to say that The Phantom Menace is the only true Star Wars masterpiece, and it should be the film used to judge all other SW films, if that is your opinion.

But you'd be wrong.

I wouldn't be wrong if I said it was my opinion... but I also wouldn't say that...


But you sir, can say what you want about SWIQ, however I can't take one person's OPINION on what belongs in a particular franchise seriously, when he has a lower filmmaking IQ than my own.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Since this has nothing to do with the thread topic, I think all this none sense should be excised and you all can start a sperate thread to continue this pointless conversation.

 

[The Wook]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Its funny how I completely disagree with The Wook on TFA, but with everything else I jive with, especially the SWIQ thing. Im sure if we came up with a better name for it, it would make more sense because we are applying a number(sort of) to feelings and getting what the basis of a good star wars story can and should be. That said, if ANH was one of your favorite movies, and TFA was a derivitive of that, why do you hate it so much? Not to derail the thread, but I missed it on the original run of it.

I do however think that these filmmakers have abysmally low SWIQ scores, same with the folks that made R1.

Well, I'm certainly open to a better name for it. SWIQ just came into my head during that conversation I shared with y'all, and I went with it. It works for me, but am open to new suggestions.

Yeah, I'm sorry, Wook, but this SWIQ stuff was funny at first, but it's run it's course.

Can't we just go back to bashing Alden again? OMG he's SOOOOOOO SHORT!!!............and I hate his smug, chipmunk cheeks.

Hey man, I'm just trying to be polite by addressing everyone's questions/comments.
I think it will die down, Solo. I wanted to explain to you fellas what SWIQ is, so that when I use it y'all will know what I mean.

While I appreciate that compliment, I gotta take issue with the following:

Are you saying you thought Han went out on that bridge to sacrifice himself, or that he was even truly aware of the danger? That wasn't the thrust of the scene at all. Rather, he went to try to convince his beloved son to return to the the light. And he thought he had succeeded, and was receiving what he believed to be Ben's surrender of his lightsaber to him. But he was tricked, and he suffered for it.

Just like in ESB, when Han thought he had the situation under control, ignored Leia's warnings and let his guard down - only to be was tricked by Lando and handed over to Vader.

So what happened in TFA was not only consistent with Solo's character, it was actually following set precedent for his character,

M

Lando wasn't evil. Kylo was.

Han went along with Lando, unaware that Lando was being coerced.

Han walked out on that bridge, fully aware that his son was no longer his son. He said as much to Leia. But he did it anyway. It was completely out of character for Han to suffer that kind of punk death.

The Wook

 

[Snikt]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Since this has nothing to do with the thread topic, I think all this none sense should be excised and you all can start a sperate thread to continue this pointless conversation.

I feel like thats the equivilant of taking your ball and going home. :rolleyes All conversations on this forum are pointless. We are talking about movies and props for gods sake, have some fun with some stuff man. Take the stick out.

 

[NeoRutty]

Re: Star Wars Anthology (Young Han Solo)

Well, I'm certainly open to a better name for it. SWIQ just came into my head during that conversation I shared with y'all, and I went with it. It works for me, but am open to new suggestions.



Hey man, I'm just trying to be polite by addressing everyone's questions/comments.
I think it will die down, Solo. I wanted to explain to you fellas what SWIQ is, so that when I use it y'all will know what I mean.



Lando wasn't evil. Kylo was.

Han went along with Lando, unaware that Lando was being coerced.

Han walked out on that bridge, fully aware that his son was no longer his son. He said as much to Leia. But he did it anyway. It was completely out of character for Han to suffer that kind of punk death.

The Wook

"I don't TRUST Lando"

"Well I DON'T TRUST HIM either.... But he is my friend" (a friend he doesn't trust)


Han did not think his SON (not friend... SON) had it in him to kill him - and you can see the shock and sadness in his eyes and how he touched his son's cheek after he got skewered

Thought he could pull a Luke with Vader... Han was wrong.

Your SWIQ is slippin.