Skeleton Crew Jod Buckle
- Thread starter greenmachines
- Start date
I am seeing it but only from one camera angle. The side angle shows that area completely clear of a side bar. I believe I can see what they have done that gives the impression of a full side bar from a front view but it is missing from the side. The dashed line that I have sculpted is actually an inverted V from the front, a triangle from the side. If you cut a flat wedding band at an angle it would be flat on the back, almost to a point in the front but viewed from the front would look like it cuved down on both sides.
Here is the side view showing nothing connects all the way to the edge. I believe that frontal picture has some pretty serious pixel degradation that makes it look like there is something there.
But from the front angles it looks to droop on the sides so I believe it to be a curve not a dash (currently sculpted mine as a dash) so like this? maybe?:
I broke my phone pen so am having a hard time drawing that piece. Back in a few..
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Not knowing what all of the above parts are other than artistic pretties, I wanted to denote what I was calling certain areas so my description make a bit more sense for discussing changes. I picture the central figure as a weigh scale balance so was calling the two dashes at the top to be "plates of the scale" where weighed objects would be added to the balance.
The two that I had earlier called ball are the swirls at the bottom:
The central shape looks like a classic scale balance so I continue to make my judgement errors based on that assumption. The same reason I did not see the plates having that downturn curve because I saw them as plates but they obviously curve down on both sides so NOT flat.
The two that I had earlier called ball are the swirls at the bottom:
The central shape looks like a classic scale balance so I continue to make my judgement errors based on that assumption. The same reason I did not see the plates having that downturn curve because I saw them as plates but they obviously curve down on both sides so NOT flat.
Sorry phone skills without the pen.....
So from the side the tapering point is hard to see but from the front the taper reaches almost all the way to the edge lip (but the bottom of the lip not the top), making it look like a fully bridged line. Does this seem correct?
So from the side the tapering point is hard to see but from the front the taper reaches almost all the way to the edge lip (but the bottom of the lip not the top), making it look like a fully bridged line. Does this seem correct?
smithjohnj
Sr Member
I am sorry I have come at this in mid-discussion. I have not seen the early Skeleton Crew thread. The term “belt buckle” woke me up to this new discussion. So some of my early comments in this thread did not build on ideas already found in the older thread.
In reply to greenmachines #21 post; Yes you have correctly IDed the belt holes outside the frame and the “hidden” midpoint hole where I believe the “stud” should/could project from the back of the buckle and into the belt from the front. In his post #22 I believe the circled locations are indeed ends on the part of a curve – just like the “swirls” you have made at the end of the curves on the bottom. In this case, the “droops” may not be closing curves which continue around into a “swirl” or “dot” - but might end and flatten more into a “leaf”? Maybe like something on the side of a “fluer-de-lie”. I believe these top curves do continue down (to connect?) as the innermost ridge – but there is not yet agreement on this point?.
As a new observation is this object less what we would call a “buckle” and more what would be termed a “slider”? I am not looking to change the thread but just suggest an alternate concept which may free the details of the design process. Just as one person sees a “scale” which drives their process, my initial concept was a gnome's face where the “dashes” were “eyes” which made me expound differing ideas.
One earlier image shows a traditional center bar roller buckle located to the right side of this buckle under design. That traditional buckle would provide the size adjustment and tension necessary to hold the belt and it's accessories in place. That gives more design freedom if this buckle is more “decorative” than “functional”.
In reply to greenmachines #21 post; Yes you have correctly IDed the belt holes outside the frame and the “hidden” midpoint hole where I believe the “stud” should/could project from the back of the buckle and into the belt from the front. In his post #22 I believe the circled locations are indeed ends on the part of a curve – just like the “swirls” you have made at the end of the curves on the bottom. In this case, the “droops” may not be closing curves which continue around into a “swirl” or “dot” - but might end and flatten more into a “leaf”? Maybe like something on the side of a “fluer-de-lie”. I believe these top curves do continue down (to connect?) as the innermost ridge – but there is not yet agreement on this point?.
As a new observation is this object less what we would call a “buckle” and more what would be termed a “slider”? I am not looking to change the thread but just suggest an alternate concept which may free the details of the design process. Just as one person sees a “scale” which drives their process, my initial concept was a gnome's face where the “dashes” were “eyes” which made me expound differing ideas.
One earlier image shows a traditional center bar roller buckle located to the right side of this buckle under design. That traditional buckle would provide the size adjustment and tension necessary to hold the belt and it's accessories in place. That gives more design freedom if this buckle is more “decorative” than “functional”.
Yep, you just made me realize that although I mention one other thread, I not only did NOT provide a link for it but completely failed to mention there is an entire extra ORIGINAL thread about just the show itself, but that does contain prop discussion as well. I will go back to post 1 and add the two other links.
I think the slider being so EXACTLY centered between the two adjustment holes (in the leather) that you must be right about there being a rear pin. If not, that is an extreme coincidence.
Did another search through the on screen shots and I am back to the two plates/eyes not connecting to the edge and not even having a v pattern. In these shots, the camera is looking directly into the buckle. The bottoms of these are completely straight and at all times parallel to the edge at an equidistance away, never even getting closer. The top of the plates/eyes looks mounded up but the bottom is flat. I can only suppose that all the shadows and angles that look like it curves down must be illusion due to it being a metal buckle with a lot of reflections. First pic, just a closeup. Second pic shows the bottom versus the lip edge (both inside and outside of that single lip edge) and the last includes just the mounded shape. I think that if the belt were tipped up slightly, from this view, we would see a hollow space concave upward. It would explain the mounded top AND why it looks like an inverted v from some angles. But I definitely think this frontal view shows it doesn't have the long curve down to the lip like it looks in other pics.
Modery
Member
Went through episodes 3-5 to look for references for boots and pistol, but also found more good buckle shots
This one (ep5) makes me thing that the eyes are not connected to the rings at the bottom, but they are a bit more curved?
A good frontal view of one side of it from episode 3. Looks much more like a circle here
(edit: 2 frames later, higher contrast)
Feels like it looks different in every view
This one (ep5) makes me thing that the eyes are not connected to the rings at the bottom, but they are a bit more curved?
A good frontal view of one side of it from episode 3. Looks much more like a circle here
(edit: 2 frames later, higher contrast)
Feels like it looks different in every view
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yes it totally feels like there are two buckles used onscreen and one is clearly a crescent moon and the other a very minor curve.
So that pic was actually even more straight on perpendicular to the buckle face than the previous one. The one I was looking at, in post 28, was slightly from above and that angle makes it look flatter. But the one you posted in 29 is showing it from beneath the overhanging curve so it shows the arc and the thickness I was assuming but could not prove in post 22 and 23. Should take about 20 minutes to fix that but I am zombied so sleep first. Just an example though....
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And thank you for the tenacity. We will get a printable buckle out of this process and it will be very, very close.
greenmachines - thank YOU for your tenacity!
joberg
Legendary Member
I felt so confident it was ready for a final scan. But now I am sitting here cracking up laughing. I flipped it upside down to check from another angle....... errrr nope, not ready:
I had assumed it was a straight on camera angle but Clearly their is a twist in my entire sculpt. Something easily fixed in photoshop or the like but slightly more work here.
I had assumed it was a straight on camera angle but Clearly their is a twist in my entire sculpt. Something easily fixed in photoshop or the like but slightly more work here.
smithjohnj
Sr Member
Since the “front buckle” sculpt is nearing completion I took a look at the functional “side buckle” and the leather belt itself. The best “images” I have to work with are from the toy collection which are “straight-on” to the buckle and a couple of screen captures taken from the front showing the buckle off on the right side. I am including an attached diagram to help with this discussion.
Consistent with all the images available I believe the side buckle is clearly a roller buckle which is taller than it is wide. Using the “toy” belt of 1.75”, the roller buckle is approximately 2.5” tall and1.625” wide. The buckle has a single prong or tongue attached to the end bar of the frame.
One end of the belt is attached to the end bar of the buckle. No details are available but I would suggest wrapping the belt around the end bar and sewing it as a permanent attachment. This would require a prong slot to be cut near the end of the belt. Again from the “toy”, the belt has two leather “keeper” loops. Each keeper is approximately .375” (3/8”) wide. The first keeper is set around the belt as close as possible to the buckle's end bar. The second keeper is approximately 2.5” to the left of the first. The total length of the belt should be long enough to circle the body, pass through the frame of the buckle and both keepers – and still extend approximately 2” beyond the second keeper. Note this is a belt which is much longer than a normal work or dress belt. For large waists like my own, there are no common leather belt blanks which will be long enough. (Normal cow hides are just not big enough to cut a blank in the usual way.) That will require either cutting the belt at a bias (angle across the hide), going with a larger animal, lapping two shorter pieces together, or going synthetic. Smaller waists should/may not have a problem.
The free end of the belt is square cut across the width of the belt. The belt end also tapers from the full 1.75” width down to 1” at the end. This taper is regular and symmetric so the 1” end is centered with respect to the full belt width. The tapering “appears” to start 2” from the end, just as the belt exits the second keeper. Note if the taper begins too soon, the belt end could flop up and down in the second keeper. As such, you may want to make the belt extend slightly more than 2” beyond the second keeper, or make the taper run less than 2” to ensure the taper does not start too soon. In any case you want to delay making the final length and taper cuts until you are sure of the overall fit of the belt with all the accessories and pants you will be using with the belt. Start construction at the buckle end.
Holes are punched into the free end of the belt. Holes are in the center of the belt's width and placed approximately 1.5” apart. Holes seem to start with the exact hole the prong is inserted into for the proper fit. Again this means you probably want a few test fittings before final cutting and punching. Note this could mean the holes start five inches or so from the end. This is a very unusual situation and with additional images we may find the holes do start closer to the end. However I like the clean look of the unpunched belt end. The count of punched holes should be enough to come around the body from the right to the wearer's center-front. This is the position of the “front buckle”. From the images there is one hole to the immediate right and also to the immediate left – giving a measure of 3” across the central section of the sculpt. Both of these holes are located inside the buckle frame which the belt passes through (behind the sculpt). There are at least two more holes to the left of front sculpt buckle. Holes “could” repeat along the full length of the belt as a “design” or “decorative” element but there is no evidence of that as of yet. Again the “toy” does show holes going off to the left– but it does not show them coming around from behind the back and continuing to the wearer's right side and beyond to the end bar attachment.
Fortunately there is some flexibility in the hole placement during fitting. I believe there “must” be a hole at center-front. This is where the back stud of the front buckle will be inserted to hold the buckle's position centered to the wearer. Holes then go in both directions with the 1.5” spacing. The wearer's waist measurement will determine how far right-of-center the side buckle will be positioned. It definitely needs to lie before going all the way to the wearer's right side. With this in mind, I would start my fitting by deciding approximately where I want the roller buckle to be located. Where it will not “dig” into my side when I bend over or twist. With this decided, mark the center-front and use that to set the center-front hole. All of the other hole locations and belt “landmarks” are relative to this hole. Once completed the entire belt can be shifted left or right as necessary (around the waist) to keep the front buckle centered. There are no pants loops which would restrict this type of movement.
Consistent with all the images available I believe the side buckle is clearly a roller buckle which is taller than it is wide. Using the “toy” belt of 1.75”, the roller buckle is approximately 2.5” tall and1.625” wide. The buckle has a single prong or tongue attached to the end bar of the frame.
One end of the belt is attached to the end bar of the buckle. No details are available but I would suggest wrapping the belt around the end bar and sewing it as a permanent attachment. This would require a prong slot to be cut near the end of the belt. Again from the “toy”, the belt has two leather “keeper” loops. Each keeper is approximately .375” (3/8”) wide. The first keeper is set around the belt as close as possible to the buckle's end bar. The second keeper is approximately 2.5” to the left of the first. The total length of the belt should be long enough to circle the body, pass through the frame of the buckle and both keepers – and still extend approximately 2” beyond the second keeper. Note this is a belt which is much longer than a normal work or dress belt. For large waists like my own, there are no common leather belt blanks which will be long enough. (Normal cow hides are just not big enough to cut a blank in the usual way.) That will require either cutting the belt at a bias (angle across the hide), going with a larger animal, lapping two shorter pieces together, or going synthetic. Smaller waists should/may not have a problem.
The free end of the belt is square cut across the width of the belt. The belt end also tapers from the full 1.75” width down to 1” at the end. This taper is regular and symmetric so the 1” end is centered with respect to the full belt width. The tapering “appears” to start 2” from the end, just as the belt exits the second keeper. Note if the taper begins too soon, the belt end could flop up and down in the second keeper. As such, you may want to make the belt extend slightly more than 2” beyond the second keeper, or make the taper run less than 2” to ensure the taper does not start too soon. In any case you want to delay making the final length and taper cuts until you are sure of the overall fit of the belt with all the accessories and pants you will be using with the belt. Start construction at the buckle end.
Holes are punched into the free end of the belt. Holes are in the center of the belt's width and placed approximately 1.5” apart. Holes seem to start with the exact hole the prong is inserted into for the proper fit. Again this means you probably want a few test fittings before final cutting and punching. Note this could mean the holes start five inches or so from the end. This is a very unusual situation and with additional images we may find the holes do start closer to the end. However I like the clean look of the unpunched belt end. The count of punched holes should be enough to come around the body from the right to the wearer's center-front. This is the position of the “front buckle”. From the images there is one hole to the immediate right and also to the immediate left – giving a measure of 3” across the central section of the sculpt. Both of these holes are located inside the buckle frame which the belt passes through (behind the sculpt). There are at least two more holes to the left of front sculpt buckle. Holes “could” repeat along the full length of the belt as a “design” or “decorative” element but there is no evidence of that as of yet. Again the “toy” does show holes going off to the left– but it does not show them coming around from behind the back and continuing to the wearer's right side and beyond to the end bar attachment.
Fortunately there is some flexibility in the hole placement during fitting. I believe there “must” be a hole at center-front. This is where the back stud of the front buckle will be inserted to hold the buckle's position centered to the wearer. Holes then go in both directions with the 1.5” spacing. The wearer's waist measurement will determine how far right-of-center the side buckle will be positioned. It definitely needs to lie before going all the way to the wearer's right side. With this in mind, I would start my fitting by deciding approximately where I want the roller buckle to be located. Where it will not “dig” into my side when I bend over or twist. With this decided, mark the center-front and use that to set the center-front hole. All of the other hole locations and belt “landmarks” are relative to this hole. Once completed the entire belt can be shifted left or right as necessary (around the waist) to keep the front buckle centered. There are no pants loops which would restrict this type of movement.
I feel like several days of my lifetime have been given back to me. I read that and didn't feel the normal falling into the rabbit hole. I just read it, opened the pdf, peed a little out of joy, and realized that you had already found the variable (personal fit) and the plan to get around it.
OK, I finally got the scanner to release the hostages. I am uploading the stl here. However, this is where my skills fall apart. I have the scan, not trimmed, not filled, without the side loops completed. We need an Obi Won to save us. I have two that I will ask but it is like asking my doctor to pro bono my visit, so, I have not asked before.
The one piece of the puzzle that has vaporized is the size. When I saw clearly defined ends on the loops, it measured 4 inches, when the belt in the photo was sized to 1.75. However, because the different angles show more or less of these loops, I don't want to use that measurement for the printing of the buckle. I am trying to find a more precise two points to make the foundational size markers for printing.
smithjohnj
Sr Member
I conducted my own analysis of available images before I read some of the group's early posts. So I believe several people came to the same simple conclusions independently - from different perspectives. The baseline which I feel everyone agrees with is the belt is 1.75" wide. This is a "standard" belt width so the theory and practicality came together. From there I used some basic image scaling to conclude the spacing between holes was 1.5". That gave me the width of the central sculpt to be 3" and a height of 2.375". To me, these "measurements" provide the best available sizing information. They are the closest to the center of the image and areas of interest and thus are subject to the least amount of "distortion" or accumulation of "additive error". This height also provided the proper "vertical centering" to position the central element of the design where I expected to find a rear projecting positioning "stud". I readily admit I have a bias to normalize measurements to common fractions of an inch or millimeters. (I would never find something to be 2 13/64". The available images are just not that good.) The "visible" width became 4". Again, this falls within the range of aesthetic and well "proportioned" buckles. When I "extend" the curved end bars of this buckle with smooth curves to the back - I get a total "calculated" width of 4.4". I have the least confidence with this "guessimation". My personal take would be to make it 4.375". Again, as always, my suggestions here have no real insight, just my opinions. But if they support or conflict with other ideas - I feel more information is always better than less.
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