Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Pre-release)

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

One thing I keep going back to is all the hoo-ha from the prequels to the original films about either Anakin or Luke "being the one" who would bring balance to the force and if you think about it the force ain't balanced if you have one side winning,balance implies there's a use for both sides or you need to wipe both sides out so.....

I'm going to try this one more time... Lucas said the whole balance of the Force thing was a JEDI prophecy. So it's a prophecy using their ideology, not what any fan or dictionary says "balance" means. Balance of the Force means the complete absence of the Sith. When the Sith are gone the Force is in balance. Anakin fulfilled the prophecy when he came back to the light side and chucked the Emperor down the reactor shaft. In AOTC (I think) Yoda and Mace talk about the Jedi losing their ability to use the Force because the Dark Side is gaining influence, and unbalancing the Force. That's what the Jedi mean in regards to the prophecy. So it's not about X amount of Dark Side users vs. X amount of Jedi.

I'm still hoping Snokes is not a Force user at all. If I were writing this stuff, I'd keep the Sith in hiding for a long time. That's IF the Emperor had any secret apprentice. Otherwise it would be a false Sith lineage with someone just following their rules and using their methods.

 

[RougeAvenger81]

But that's what he is suggesting, that the Knights of Ren are just Sith by a different name. I'm with @kristenhenry70, Snoke isn't as dogmatic as the Sith, he's a Force sensitive opportunist.

Maybe I read what he wrote wrong then. My hope is similar to what you are saying. Darkside user, but not so religious in a sense as the Sith. If I can use the term religious in that sense.

Luke to me, although a self proclaimed Jedi, never came off as the EU versions of what a Jedi was or should be. He strays from the Old Republic Jedi teachings a lot. So he was just a strong force user to me that took to the light, but didn't keep to the teachings of the old Jedi.

 

[Bryancd]

I'm going to try this one more time... Lucas said the whole balance of the Force thing was a JEDI prophecy. So it's a prophecy using their ideology, not what any fan or dictionary says "balance" means. Balance of the Force means the complete absence of the Sith. When the Sith are gone the Force is in balance. Anakin fulfilled the prophecy when he came back to the light side and chucked the Emperor down the reactor shaft. In AOTC (I think) Yoda and Mace talk about the Jedi losing their ability to use the Force because the Dark Side is gaining influence, and unbalancing the Force. That's what the Jedi mean in regards to the prophecy. So it's not about X amount of Dark Side users vs. X amount of Jedi.

I'm still hoping Snokes is not a Force user at all. If I were writing this stuff, I'd keep the Sith in hiding for a long time. That's IF the Emperor had any secret apprentice. Otherwise it would be a false Sith lineage with someone just following their rules and using their methods.

That did get a bit of GL retcon in the Clone Wars Mortis trilogy arch and the Yoda episodes towards the end.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I know, I'm just annoyed people are taking the word "balance" too literally. :lol I've got to see if my sister will let me use her Netflix account because I have only seen a few of those last episodes. So if anything related to the prophecy past Mortis is in there I missed it.

 

[JD]

I believe the answer to this is that Snoke follows a different paradigm than the Sith. I expect he sees weakness in both the Jedi and the Sith's extreme positions. i imagine that he believes the true power of the Force is in having the best of both combined into one package... which he believes is Kylo Ren; born of the Dark AND the Light.

The Sith would never tolerate entertaining any use of power from the Light Side, just as the Jedi would not tolerate the use of the Dark Side. They both hold extreme ideologies, and I think Snoke aims to shoot through the middle with Kylo Ren.

Incidentally, i believe that Luke feels much the same way...which should make things interesting.

But just because you have someone (Kylo) who is obsessed with his Grandfather--and so tries to emulate him--does not mean he actually *IS* a Sith (though I am certain that he thinks of himself that way) and the fact that Snoke is a Master Manipulator does not make him a Sith by default, either.

You can believe that... we don't really have much to go on at this point. Still seems like a cop out, but, only time will tell.

There were rumors of some whole "grey Jedi" plot going around. Based on those rumors, I'd rather go see Avatar than deal with that kinda nonsense. The Jedi didn't survive and thrive for over a thousand generation just to find out they need to be part-Jedi, part-Sith to be complete.

We don't know Snoke is a Master Manipulator quite yet, either. Obviously those ideas are firmly in place and it's most likely true. Palpatine was master manipulator as well -those plots from the Prequel's are often ignored (and possibly not explored quite enough)... and that failed him, just as I'm sure we'll most likely see the eventual end of Snoke, too (unless these movies are going waaaay dark).

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

What George said in interviews, and thus what he (and Katie) was writing from, was that the Light Side was the "true" aspect of the Force, and the Dark Side a corrupted twisting of that true nature. Therefore, bringing balance to the Force meant purging that corruption -- like Getting rid of a cancerous tumor. It's a natural function gone haywire.

--Jonah

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

... the force won't be balanced until both the Sith and the Jedi are gone.

And THAT is one idea that came to my mind not too long ago, too! Maybe that is a conclusion that Luke finally came to as well. That is why he is hiding, which should be a stupid thing if you are that one Jedi last Jedi rebuilding a new order with young force users, where an untaught force user already seems superior to your average joe. See Anakin or Leia.

 

[Laspector]

Kevin Smith and his buddy had an idea that is kinda cool. Probably won't happen, but still a great idea. Go to 14:15 for it. Warning NSFW language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYpS-LKniO0

 

[Bryancd]

Although we are all off the topic reservation with this, all we know about the history of the Jedi is that they were the keepers of the peace for a 1000 generations. And we saw a version of the Jedi in the PT where they were institutionalize and ineffective in holding back the Dark Side rising. The Jedi likely have been many things over those generations. Perhaps they used to be more monastic, perhaps they used to be less organized, more independent traveling the galaxy helping people like the A-Team. And we have no idea how they acceded the Force. It would seem their desire to not allow for love and attachment in the PT era failed, Luke proved that. The PT Jedi might consider Luke to be "grey".

 

[Wolfsburg]

What George said in interviews, and thus what he (and Katie) was writing from, was that the Light Side was the "true" aspect of the Force, and the Dark Side a corrupted twisting of that true nature. Therefore, bringing balance to the Force meant purging that corruption -- like Getting rid of a cancerous tumor. It's a natural function gone haywire.

--Jonah

Did he mean that is how the Jedi see it or is that his own view?

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

His own view. But also, by extension, because he's writing them, the Prequel/Clone Wars era Jedi. It's something he has only been able to express sloppily. Like when he said the repetitive elements in the Prequels were because the saga is "like a poem -- it rhymes" to convey the canon-like structure of building on repeated themes. It would be more accurate, probably, to convey the view of the universe as organism, the Force in its natural (Light Side) state as homeostasis, and the Dark Side as disease. The Jedi are antibodies. *heh*

From the beginning of the universe, entropy has been increasing. Just the way of things. Structures break down. The Force, as an expression of life-energy itself, is anentropic. The Dark Side, from what we've seen, seems to act as an entropy accelerant, especially in those who channel it. So if you've studied the Force as life-energy, as Yoda and Obi-Wan talk about it, you're going to be on the side of resisting entropy. Which essentially amounts to "Light Side bias". But we all can just look around our planet to see what happens when pushing back against entropy succeeds. Medicine and nutrition have had a major impact on the homeostatically-balanced death rate of our organism, so we're overgrowing our range. The Mortis arc of Clone Wars showed "Father" as an agent keeping both Dark Side and Light from "overgrowing"... but we don't know if that's really the state of things, or just that species/culture's belief. Either way, that plus George's comments show that he's able to hold somewhat contradictory ideas in his head simultaneously. So extract from all that what you can.

--Jonah

 

[Wolfsburg]

That's interesting because the impression I got from the ROTS novelization was the "Dark side" was known as such not because it was patently bad or evil but because the knowledge and abilities it entailed were shrouded in mystery and darkness, forbidden and untouched by the Jedi. A lot of it was unknown and the aspects the Jedi did know about they felt was best left alone. A lot of the incredible and weird powers within the "murkiness" tended to corrupt (along the lines of the old adage "absolute power corrupts absolutely") because of the power it entailed. Darth Plagueis even studied manipulating life and death itself, which seems a big deal. Is that necessarily evil? I don't think so but I think there are ethical questions involved, in addition to the sheer power one would have if they mastered this. Could they use it responsibly? What we've been told is that so far, no one has been able to resist their own selfish desires once they delve into the Dark Side. I thought of it all kinda like Gandalf and the One Ring, though admittedly that's not totally analogous since the Ring is certainly an evil artifact. Anyway, although Gandalf would intend to use it for good if he took possession of it, the incredible power it contained would almost certainly corrupt him too. In SW, we don't know of anyone that has been able to wield the power of the Dark Side and not be corrupted by it but I don't think of it as evil, per se. In essence, I took it as The Dark Side and the Light Side both comprise what is called the the Living Force as a whole. The Light Side plays it safe while the Dark Side is much more weird and potentially dangerous.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Right. Anyone who navel-gazes on the nature of "good" and "evil" long enough realizes the line (presuming there even is one) is so blurry as to be almost meaningless. Stripping relative valuation away to just entropy and resisting vs. promoting it on whatever scale one is able to affect... How do you define it? Sometimes you have to tear a building down to build something better in its place. Sometimes you have to cut into someone to remove a diseased bit. Sometimes preserving things as they are makes things worse. I made the argument back in the early '90s "why can't Force lightning be used like electroshock therapy or to jolt someone's heart back into rhythm?" One could argue that many of the life-manipulating skills/powers are inherently corrupting because we're too motivated by self-interest to make truly objective decisions as to its use. That was what was behind the Second Great Jedi Schism in the EU -- Jedi who "you can't fire me, I quit!" the order when their experiments into manipulating and creating life ran counter to the doctrine of the order.

--Jonah

 

[JD]

Does evil really think they're evil? That's the why the ideas floating around about gray Jedi seemed nonsensical to me - they're all grey for the most part.

I can understand that using the Dark Side of the Force might not mean evil - just like the dark side of the moon isn't evil (not that there is a dark side of the moon)... it's just the side of the Force that is left unexplored - often with good reason.

As Glinda said: "are you a good witch or a bad witch?" Being a witch might not be bad thing - although at a certain time in Salem, it was.

 

[dascoyne]

Marc Bernardin on Kevin Smith's Podcast made a really interesting prediction @ 4:14.

Spoiler

What if Jin stays behind on the Death Star and becomes a TIE pilot. She ends up as one of Vader's escorts during the ep 4 trench attack and sacrifices herself by colliding into Vader's TIE.

At that point I shut off the video because he was making predictions that were starting to resonate.

 

[Bryancd]

Marc Bernardin on Kevin Smith's Podcast made a really interesting prediction @ 4:14.

Spoiler

What if Jin stays behind on the Death Star and becomes a TIE pilot. She ends up as one of Vader's escorts during the ep 4 trench attack and sacrifices herself by colliding into Vader's TIE.

At that point I shut off the video because he was making predictions that were starting to resonate.

Nah, requires too much effort to make that clear in ANH.

 

[NeoRutty]

Marc Bernardin on Kevin Smith's Podcast made a really interesting prediction @ 4:14.

Spoiler

What if Jin stays behind on the Death Star and becomes a TIE pilot. She ends up as one of Vader's escorts during the ep 4 trench attack and sacrifices herself by colliding into Vader's TIE.

At that point I shut off the video because he was making predictions that were starting to resonate.

Ha... yeah I liked his thoughts A LOT, until I rewatched the scenes... It would be tough to make that work. Really tough.

 

[Bryancd]

Mad spilling some beans in an interview.

Spoiler

http://makingstarwars.net/2016/04/mads-mikkelsen-confirms-his-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-character-is-jyn-ersos-father/

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Marc Bernardin on Kevin Smith's Podcast made a really interesting prediction @ 4:14.

Spoiler

What if Jin stays behind on the Death Star and becomes a TIE pilot. She ends up as one of Vader's escorts during the ep 4 trench attack and sacrifices herself by colliding into Vader's TIE.

At that point I shut off the video because he was making predictions that were starting to resonate.

NOOOOO!!!!! No more connections! Like I've said before, it's about all I can do to rationalize the Prequel connections. I can buy "It's the will of the Force" only so much.

 

[NeoRutty]

NOOOOO!!!!! No more connections! Like I've said before, it's about all I can do to rationalize the Prequel connections. I can buy "It's the will of the Force" only so much.

I dunno... I hate that kind of thing as well, but before I rewatched the scene and saw how improbably putting her in that situation, I REALLY dug it.

It doesn't feel "Connected" to me... just a story from another perspective. Not so much "how small a world it is" but "here's the story behind that moment".

Now, Kevin Smith's suggestion that they gave her team Chewie's medal, and that's why he didn't get one... THAT is "small world connected" (though he meant it as a joke).

If Jin (sp?) was someone from the OT trilogy already introduced... then it would be "connected"... In the actual story, that tie fighter WAS someone - connecting that to Rogue one wouldn't be an issue for me since the whole story is about getting to that moment (blowing up the Death Star - it is Rogue One's mission)

That said... It wouldn't work.