Recasting stormwatch

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by Jumpin Jax, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. Jumpin Jax

    Jumpin Jax Sr Member

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    Bear with me, definitely on-topic.
    Recently, a mutul friend of myself and TE completed and shipped the first suit of his fantastic Snowtrooper armor, which is marvel to see. Two such suits were shown in TK-412's Celebration 3 album of Movie-accurate suits.
    To some dismay, it was realized that this suit was to be sent to Florida, and more than likely to a member of the Florida Garrison. This was not the issue; that it was the infamous Mike Glover's territory was.
    This outfit is the culmanation of over two year's study and work on our friend's part, and that simply most disrespectful thing that could happen at this point would be duplicates cropping up from the very first sale, not to mention a seriously sh@@ thing to do. I am sending this out to any thaat may encounter Glover in the near future, so you will know, once again, that a "new product" of his will be a brand-new ripoff of someone else's work.
    To the Florida Garrison, please makee sure that the lucky owner of this outfit would show appreciation best by politely declining any offers to make copies, no matter what offers may include.
    This is also an announcement that any such copies would stand out and not go unnoticed or ignored. Recasting went too far long ago here, let's give it a rest.
    Thank you,
    JJ
     
  2. voice in the crowd

    voice in the crowd Sr Member

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    Hi JJ,

    I have seen this guy Mike Glover's name creep up here in the RPF a few times but do not know much about his history on or off the RPF.

    On principle I like to keep away from recasters obviously for the theft of hard work put in by the original prop makers is part of it but also because people who are willing to steal other peoples work are generally also unreliable rip off merchants full stop.

    Has he stolen a lot of stuff made by RPF members and if so is there a list of stuff so we know what to steer clear from. People have asked frequently to have a bad vendor list on the RPF but it has never appeared. Does this guy use an alias that might hide his real identity.

    Any info on this guy would be appreciated (a PM would be good if you don't want to discuss publicly).

    Also a PM on the availability of great snowtrooper armour wouldn't go a miss either :lol

    Cheers Chris.
     
  3. Skaught

    Skaught Sr Member

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    Contrary to popular belief, the Florida Garrison is not a hot bed of recasting frenzy. Most of the members of the Garrison wouldn't know how to recast their own butts. They're more interested in getting out and trooping. I've had some of my fellow members falsely accused of recasting simply because they live in Florida. This "guilt by geography" knee jerk reaction really is unfair.

    When the Snowtrooper armor was posted for sale, I made a post on the FG forum since I knew several members were interested in obtaining some -- for trooping purposes. I know the person who bought the armor and there is nothing to worry about.

    Yes, I know Glover has recast material before and I know there have been accusations of current issues. I, nor the Council, have been contacted about issues, though. If there is ongoing concern about an individual, I would appreciate a contact. That would be preferrable to just having our whole state labeled falsely do to the actions of one.

    Scott
     
  4. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove Sr Member

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    Maybe, but they are a hot bed of protecting Glover.
     
  5. Skaught

    Skaught Sr Member

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    Speaking as the CO of the Florida Garrison, no, we are not.

    Scott
     
  6. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove Sr Member

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    Which member of your garison was going to quiz him about the three or four admitted people here who are still owed and has yet to do it? Oh yea, NEOGELION...

    Sorry Scott, I like you but I call BS.


    There is another thread here some where....

    http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...opic=99656&st=0
     
  7. darthgoat

    darthgoat Well-Known Member

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  8. WookieeGunner

    WookieeGunner Well-Known Member

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    Although I am not a member of FG, I would like to say "The actions of an individual do not condem the actions of the group", otherwise you could argue that the ENTIRE RPF is a "hot bed of protecting Glover." since a member here "was going to quiz him about the three or four admitted people here who are still owed and has yet to do it"

    And note, I don't mean this as a bait or a flame, merely pointing out a fallacy in your argument.
     
  9. Skaught

    Skaught Sr Member

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    Neogelion had good intentions but was a bit out of the loop on some things. He believed that untrue accusations were being made. Glover was readmitted to the Legion by a previous CO with conditions and since then made a lot of friends, most of whom did not know about past issues, so people defending a friend is understandable. Defending a friend isn't the same thing as being a coconspirator.

    I can't address issues that haven't been brought to my attention by the involved parties, so if there is new concerns that I should be aware of, the involved parties should let me know.

    Scott
     
  10. Skaught

    Skaught Sr Member

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    Looking back over the thread, I will comment that during the "Hyperdyne refund" issue, I did get involved, behind the scenes, to see that the refund was finally made.

    I'm not a member of the "lover" or "hater" camps, and both sides zing me as a result. I just want to keep the peace as much as possible while seeing things made right with what resources I have.

    Scott
     
  11. ImprisonedFett

    ImprisonedFett New Member

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    I am a member of the 501st as well as the Florida Garrison. I sit in neither the condemnation nor the vindication camp as far as this issue goes. My biggest fear here though is that I do not want FL members nor non members who reside in FL to be punished because they live in the same state as a banned member. If we continue down this road, how are any in FL supposed to obtain great props? I don't want this turning into a Florida hate fest because something "may be recast". Anytime something is sold it "may be recast". Those are the chances of selling to the public. Not the chances of selling to FL.
     
  12. darthgoat

    darthgoat Well-Known Member

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    I hate to say it but the court of public opinion, which you are currently soaking in, is extremely powerful. I don't disagree that the actions of one individual should not reflect on the whole group. The sad truth is that they do. People are apt to make a lump judgement on a group.

    In this situation, the person in question is a member of your group. He has many supporters down there, from the looks of things. It appears that he is being harbored by the members of 501st specifically the FG members. It appears that way. Appearence and the truth may not neccessarily be the same thing.

    Scott, I do believe you are trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I also believe that based on the past and current activities of this person he should be given no quarter and dealt with as harshly as possible. If not he will continue to prey on members of this hobby and threads like this will continue to pop up over and over.
     
  13. ImprisonedFett

    ImprisonedFett New Member

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    What are his proven "current activities"? I am not asking to start trouble or fight, and just so you all know though I have been in the Florida Garrison for about 5 years, and have never had any dealing with the person in question, so I am not a "supporter". However, if there are "proven, current, wrongfull activivities" going on then I understand the gist of this thread. But if there are no proven, current, wrongfull activities going on then I do not understand the allegations of harboring. I do not understand why something that may have happened 6 or 7 years ago, so I've heard, can not be foregiven. I do not understand why the 501st should permanently ban a person for something 6 or 7 years ago. And if they do allow that person in the organization it appears they are harboring? Anyone can get this person's information from the 501st main page or from www.fl501st.com. Anyone has access to his email address and info if they want to get in touch with him. I view harboring as protecting the person from question and inquiry which is not the case. Again see above that I have no stake in this except the reputation of the Florida Garrison.
     
  14. darthgoat

    darthgoat Well-Known Member

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    He has owed someone near Chicago an $800+ refund since October when it was requested. He owes someone near Indianapolis a clone suit that was paid for back in summer. That is only the two I know of off the top of my head. I recall more being mentioned but I cannot speak to that.

    He should be booted from 501st because this sort of thing does reflect badly on the whole. He keeps over extending himself and much in the same way that many banned RPF members do. They take on way more than they can handle and people end up either not getting their stuff or not getting their refunds. The person in question has done this several times in the past. To me that is grounds for dismissal but then again I am not in charge of 501st, thankfully.
     
  15. Lord_Gita

    Lord_Gita Sr Member

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    Out of curiousity, have these people brought this to the attention of the Legion and garrison Command or only tried to handle it themselves so far? I am far from a defender. But honestly, airing issues here and blaming the 501st while not presenting evidence or bringing in the council is pointless bickering...
     
  16. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove Sr Member

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    Yes.

    Repetedly.

    I am a member of the 501st as well, the NC garrison. If he were a member here he would catch hell from me every time he showed his face and I was around. And the CO's butt would sting.
     
  17. Lord_Gita

    Lord_Gita Sr Member

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    Ok, thank you. I'm done now.
     
  18. Skaught

    Skaught Sr Member

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    That's news to me. I have dealt with anything brought to my attention with the limited powers available to me.

    I am aware of the Chicago situation and I have been involved with getting that taken care of. While I know this will be met with groans, there have been recent extenuating circumstances that have allowed for some leeway. But that leeway is limited and those limits have been agreed upon by the 501st council and communicated to Glover. I am informed that should be wrapped up within the agree upon time. However, I have not heard about any Indy deal, so I can't comment on that.

    Scott
     
  19. hyperdyne

    hyperdyne Sr Member

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    Skaught, I appreciate your help regarding my matter concerning Glover. It was a crappy thing he did no matter how you slice it.

    BTW, I also sent information to the 501st council that was sent to me regarding other people who were still owed by Glover. IIRC they are still owed. Apparently that wasnt enough to get him kicked out. In the words of some higher up 501st members "We dont like kicking people out". :unsure

    So, it appears an expulsion wont happen in the 501st, unless perhaps you commit some nefarious capital crime. They clearly sent a message that recasting and stealing people's money, even when damning evidence is presented, is par for the course and is not really punishable in the eyes of the 501st. :rolleyes Go figure.
     
  20. Locke5

    Locke5 New Member

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    I'm not part of the 501st, I don't stand on either side of the glover debates, but I will tell you I think it's unfair that anything shipped to a florida member is already expected to be recasted by someone.

    I don't care if people in general "make lump judgements"; last I checked the 501st was not that kind of group, and it's members should not be standing along with that belief. I'm 16, and I've already decided against trying to join when I'm old enough. I've seen nothing but accusation against individuals and entire states.
     
  21. Skaught

    Skaught Sr Member

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    That's not true. I myself brought charges against a member for, among other things, taking advantage of other members financially and he was kicked out just a couple months ago. Another person brought recasting charges against a member and the accusation was researched with a detailed photographic study by a Council member (I'm not sure if the findings have been officially released). Theft and recasting is most definately punishable by removal. The problem is, people toss out the recasting accusation if someone looks at them sideways, so unless detailed evidence is brought, nothing will be done about that.

    Also, I just heard from the Indy order person. I was told they've been in communication with Mike and they are cool with their arrangment.

    Listen guys, I'll be the first person to go after a recaster if I have the evidence to do so. When I was on the council for the Rebel Legion, and a member of that group was accused of recasting Ken/Elvistrooper's stuff, I immediately brought it to their attention and we eventually brought about an end to the activity. I will not shelter a recaster if I have the evidence to deal with them.

    Scott
     
  22. darthgoat

    darthgoat Well-Known Member

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    Good to hear.

    Now lets get the Chicago person her refund.
     
  23. Skaught

    Skaught Sr Member

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    That's in the works, with a deadline given.

    Scott
     
  24. Super Serg

    Super Serg Well-Known Member

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    Scott, curious about this. How could you say this:

    AND, if you KNOW that he's a recaster, why would you admit to banning others but not him? Being the CO & knowing that he's a recaster, why wouldn't you give him the equal punishment as these below?

    Not getting on you, just wondering (as i'm sure others are) your thoughts on this.

    *ss*
     
  25. Skaught

    Skaught Sr Member

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    I know he *WAS* a recaster. That's never been in dispute. A previous administration (about three CO's ago) permitted his readmittance to the Legion after he repaired his past deals. I've inherited the situation.

    Scott
     
  26. rigormortis

    rigormortis Well-Known Member

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    Let's not let this become a blame game on Scott. He's always been upfront and an honest guy whom I've grown to respect. He'll do the right thing...

    If you have issues with one of his troopers, take it up with him with solid proof not allegations. I'm not standing up for MG at all (most everyone knows his crummy history by now), but bringing this up every 6 months is getting old, even for me.
     
  27. CMANavy

    CMANavy Sr Member

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    What is kind of funny then is that about a month ago on the Clone boards andother 501st member in Quebec recasted Glovers armor and another guys helmet.
     
  28. Trallis

    Trallis Well-Known Member

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    let me just say i dont think the 501st should not be hassled for not getting rid of people. They are a charitable group who is also there to have fun. They do not choose to govern the lives of their members. They are simply there to bring together star wars costumers for a common goal, which is raising money for charities. If the 501st does not want to begin banning members it is their decision. Maybe they just prefer to focus on the trooping and stay out of other matters
     
  29. rigormortis

    rigormortis Well-Known Member

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    Poetic Justice. ;) I just feel bad for the helmet maker...
     
  30. Trallis

    Trallis Well-Known Member

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    glover is not hurt by that. the original maker is the only one who suffers.
     
  31. ImprisonedFett

    ImprisonedFett New Member

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    So is it being said that this person's clone armor is actually a recast of someone elses work?
     
  32. maniacman7

    maniacman7 Well-Known Member

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    Im not defending or condemning Mg on his past or current issues as Im not totally familiar with them.
    I also am not sure if he recast any of his CT armor, I do know that some pieces at one point shortly after another CT armorer came to be and sold a few sets to people in certain areas of FL, looked very very close to other ct makers stuff but has since then been altered to his own liking. Also I do know at one time Mg had a partner on his CT stuff which ended badly so in the beginning there were two people to contend with on certain issues. And the funniest thing was MG and another Armorer were refining the same piece at the same time :rolleyes :rolleyes so both sets were offered with a promise of a new chest piece to replace the current one.
    ALSO: I do know that as far as a VERY REPUTABLE E2 helmet maker who Mg got a hold of one of his pieces, he didnt recast it himself BUT knew the recaster and pushed the recasters wares as I also fell victim to this helmet recast under the assumption it was an original until it was in hand and Compared to the original I already possessed.
    just my .02 move along :):):)

    Lance
    TC2640
     
  33. rudolpht

    rudolpht Well-Known Member

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    This is nothing but yellow journalism, yellow as pi$$. The thought police go after potential future crimes. How about facts vs loaded conjecture. The past may or may not be square, but it should be addressed based on facts. A pre-emptive strike of condemnation is abhorent to the idea of justice. These "Minority Report" tactics may be a scam themselves. MG had been working on Snowtrooper armor months ago, so with this type of accusation you want folks to assume it's some recent (and unrelated) shipment to FL recasted. I'm all for setting things right and against recasting, but how about not fighting fire with carpet bombing. Please leave your vigilante costumes at the door.
     
  34. rigormortis

    rigormortis Well-Known Member

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    Before you choose to defend him, ask MG about his Clone Pistol lineage...

    Last time I heard from Neo, he said he got the rights to recast it (very badly, I might add). The odd thing is that it exactly matches the dimensions of a certain RPF member's original casting sold in the JY. But I'm 'certain' MG was totally unaware he'd gotten the rights to recast a recast.

    And after he posted on CT.net that he intended to 'procure' Mario's Clone helm molds to 'make it right' to all the people Mario ripped off (when MG can't even make the armor for folks he's owed for a while), that puts the icing on the cake. A known recaster saying he'll recast for the good of people who got screwed? That's rich of him.
     
  35. rudolpht

    rudolpht Well-Known Member

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    I'm not defending anyone for actual deeds, as I have been scammed by too many. Still owed by Mario, Charlie & Mel Towers, Xeno Kenobi (who I understands remains a member here), bowjunkie (ditto), etc.

    I also believe in the more frequent and more "liberal" use of the death penalty.

    My only problem is painting states and people with "may happen, may not" vs did happen, now pay the consequences. People can make up their own mind if they want to do business with anyone, and track record typically is part of that decision. Future guilt is not a part of American jurisprudence, and as someone recently said, two wrongs do not make a right.
     
  36. rigormortis

    rigormortis Well-Known Member

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    That is true. IMHO, Florida does not deserve to be painted by a wide brush. Personally, if the seller had reservations, they could have chosen not to sell to that buyer.

    And I'm sorry to hear you've been burned - it happens far too often. I hope you've brought it to the attention of the mods here. I have zero tolerance for scammers in our hobby - I work too hard for the money to pay for props and have suffered to buy what I've wanted. If more people complained, we'd know who NOT to deal with.
     
  37. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    umm if you read this its a warning that Mike Glover might ask the memeber or have some ask the FG member to cast the said suit. It's a warning to be aware the Mike could come out with a "new improved" suit that is a recast. One of the old suits Mike had was a crappy snowtrooper suit and I could see the concern about this. It does not say that anything sent to Flordia is expect to be recasted by memebers of the FG. Its just a red flag to say be aware of possible recasting of the suit showing up on the market. It has happen with every suit. There are recasters on both coast.
     
  38. ImprisonedFett

    ImprisonedFett New Member

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    My question still remains. Has it been proven that the CT armor produced by MG is or was a recast of someone elses work? And if so who's armor was it cast off of?
     
  39. Super Serg

    Super Serg Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply scott. & fyi, I wasn't trying to bust your chops, just correcting a confusion.

    *ss*
     
  40. NEOGELION

    NEOGELION New Member

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    His armor is an original sculpt. He has revised it several times, and several people have recast it also. Maybe that is where some confusion comes in.

    For the longest time MM7 and Mike were the only one's making clone armor. Don't know where you are getting this idea from. Seems like an uncalled for swipe at the competition. There are only his original sculpt clone pieces on his armor, no TK pieces to be found.
     

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