Recasting.

[NSStudios]

Being that I have been on and off this board (mostly off) for the last 6 years, I would like a few things about recasting cleared up if I could .

So, I'm pretty frequent over on Michael-Myers.net and recasting of masks over there is VERY frowned upon... that is unless it is a screen used/production used mask. So I guess my question is this- when is recasting accepted/not accepted?

By forming my knowledge from other communities with some other posts on here that I've looked up, I came to the points below.. Please correct me if I'm wrong or add any missing info so I know!

NOTE: I DO NOT, IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, PLAN ON RECASTING AN EXISTING PIECE OF WORK.

• It is never okay to recast someone else's own sculpting or original content.
• It is okay to recast an original screen used/production used prop. (?)
• It is never okay to copy free paper props and sell them for profit.

Thanks again, guys!

 

[Billy the Hero]

Well for me, two roads that split that are pretty self explanatory:

- Did I pay for it, and own it?
- Did I obtain permission?

The latter is really simple, but the former is pretty complicated and muddy...So I like to get permission to replicate it DURING my purchase. Usually as long as I'm not selling it for a profit (which if someone is attempting to do in this hobby, they should really quit), people are okay with it. :/

 

[Billy the Hero]

*oh also to add to that, when it comes to certain things, like commissioned artwork (which I recently got from an amazing Japanese artist) it's an unspoken rule that I shouldn't post it anywhere I want willy-nilly.

 

[NSStudios]

Well for me, two roads that split that are pretty self explanatory:

- Did I pay for it, and own it?
- Did I obtain permission?

The latter is really simple, but the former is pretty complicated and muddy...So I like to get permission to replicate it DURING my purchase. Usually as long as I'm not selling it for a profit (which if someone is attempting to do in this hobby, they should really quit), people are okay with it. :/

Informative and great answers! Thank you! As I said, I don't plan on recasting anything- I know how I would feel if someone took my work and reproduced it..

I guess where my real question lies is in the second point that I made. Is it generally frowned upon to recast a screen used item from a film?

Take for instance the HMK project by Masket Case Studios. Bry of MCS took an original Captain Kirk mask (used as the mask in the first "Halloween" film) and reproduced a run of the, for fans. Now that original kirk mask is SUPER rare; only about a handful of them exist.

Another example is the 388 by Paul Knot. He took a cast of the hero "Halloween 4" mask, also rare (only 2 are known to exist from production), resculpted some areas, and sold them. .

In cases like the ones above, is it frowned upon here?

Hope that cleared up my question. Thanks again!!

 

[Moviefreak]

Informative and great answers! Thank you! As I said, I don't plan on recasting anything- I know how I would feel if someone took my work and reproduced it..

I guess where my real question lies is in the second point that I made. Is it generally frowned upon to recast a screen used item from a film?

Take for instance the HMK project by Masket Case Studios. Bry of MCS took an original Captain Kirk mask (used as the mask in the first "Halloween" film) and reproduced a run of the, for fans. Now that original kirk mask is SUPER rare; only about a handful of them exist.

Another example is the 388 by Paul Knot. He took a cast of the hero "Halloween 4" mask, also rare (only 2 are known to exist from production), resculpted some areas, and sold them. .

In cases like the ones above, is it frowned upon here?

Hope that cleared up my question. Thanks again!!

In general, if you buy the production prop and want to recast that to sell, it is accepted by the community. But that is if you personally have the original prop that you bought. It is not considered cool to... say, buy a cast from a guy who decided to recast HIS original prop he bought. If you acquired a cast and turned around and recast that... this is frowned upon. Even though the lineage is tied to the original, the community looks down on that form of a recast.

Hope that makes sense?

 

[NSStudios]

In general, if you buy the production prop and want to recast that to sell, it is accepted by the community. But that is if you personally have the original prop that you bought. It is not considered cool to... say, buy a cast from a guy who decided to recast HIS original prop he bought. If you acquired a cast and turned around and recast that... this is frowned upon. Even though the lineage is tied to the original, the community looks down on that form of a recast.

Hope that makes sense?

That makes perfect sense and pretty much confirms exactly what I needed to know! Thank you!

 

[Billy the Hero]

Informative and great answers! Thank you! As I said, I don't plan on recasting anything- I know how I would feel if someone took my work and reproduced it..

I guess where my real question lies is in the second point that I made. Is it generally frowned upon to recast a screen used item from a film?

Take for instance the HMK project by Masket Case Studios. Bry of MCS took an original Captain Kirk mask (used as the mask in the first "Halloween" film) and reproduced a run of the, for fans. Now that original kirk mask is SUPER rare; only about a handful of them exist.

Another example is the 388 by Paul Knot. He took a cast of the hero "Halloween 4" mask, also rare (only 2 are known to exist from production), resculpted some areas, and sold them. .

In cases like the ones above, is it frowned upon here?

Hope that cleared up my question. Thanks again!!

If it's frowned upon here or not, I think you'd get different answers depending on who you asked. People who really appreciate an authentic cast, they'd be all over it, and legally i think there'd be little qualms about a recast of such an old prop. But once you have sole access to said accuracte re-cast, and decide to jack up the price for your own profit, that's when I personally have an issue. This community is great because people love sharing ideas, whether it be STLs, diagrams, casts.

From personal experience: a couple years ago I decided to make some high-quality action figure kits of characters from a particular cartoon, because companies for some reason weren't interested in making official toys for it. So I worked and printed a CAD, sanded, primed, and cast the thing in polyurethane, and sold it in kits at a price that only covered the cost of manufacture+shipping. Essentially I was doing free work for anyone who could afford the material cost. It was also a limited run, in the end I made 112 kits over a two year period and didn't get any flak from that particular show's parent company. In fact, I was pleasantly honored to learn that one of the artists on the show had my figure on their desk for a while.

 

[MattgomeryBurns]

It's also frowned upon if you recast Ashton Kutcher in a movie.

 

[Mr Mold Maker]

I was on the MM.net board back in the day and I've got to ask.. frowned upon to recast masks on Michael-Myers.net? Since when? :lol Every single "top maker" got there because of recasting. Justin's stuff coming from Billy's Kirk, and his H6 a production mask recast, Nik is recast central.. most of his stuff coming from the 98 or recasts of the 98, or recasts of the recasts of the 98. He also has the Nightmare and animatronic head he has recast... also, every single RZ mask maker worth his salt has recast the animatronic head. Dennis recast Justin's NMM to make the DB2. Sam recast the DB2 to make his Kirk. SSNs whole schtick was recasting movie masks, or production pulls.

Even the officially licensed stuff from Trick Or Treat Studios is recasted stuff. The H20s are recast SSN masks, the 6 is Justin's recast 6, and the Tramer/Elrod is Billy recast/retooled Kirk. The whole Myers hobby is based around recasting so comparing what is accepted over there and what's accepted over here is a fruitless endeavor, as they're two totally different mind sets.

To answer your question, about where I personally draw the line I'll give this example:
I think Paul recasting his stunt H4 (it is not the Hero mask, no matter what he says.) is fine as it is a production made piece. I would personally draw the line at someone then recasting his copies of the mask.

 

[NSStudios]

I was on the MM.net board back in the day and I've got to ask.. frowned upon to recast masks on Michael-Myers.net? Since when? :lol Every single "top maker" got there because of recasting. Justin's stuff coming from Billy's Kirk, and his H6 a production mask recast, Nik is recast central.. most of his stuff coming from the 98 or recasts of the 98, or recasts of the recasts of the 98. He also has the Nightmare and animatronic head he has recast... also, every single RZ mask maker worth his salt has recast the animatronic head. Dennis recast Justin's NMM to make the DB2. Sam recast the DB2 to make his Kirk. SSNs whole schtick was recasting movie masks, or production pulls.

Even the officially licensed stuff from Trick Or Treat Studios is recasted stuff. The H20s are recast SSN masks, the 6 is Justin's recast 6, and the Tramer/Elrod is Billy recast/retooled Kirk. The whole Myers hobby is based around recasting so comparing what is accepted over there and what's accepted over here is a fruitless endeavor, as they're two totally different mind sets.

To answer your question, about where I personally draw the line I'll give this example:
I think Paul recasting his stunt H4 (it is not the Hero mask, no matter what he says.) is fine as it is a production made piece. I would personally draw the line at someone then recasting his copies of the mask.

Oh my god!!!! I am so glad you responded and said some of this.(I'll explain). First of all, totally agree with the first part. Nik with the 98, Justin with his H6 and Billy's Kirk, etc. Okay I should rephrase that- recasting an original sculpt isn't okay, but recasting anything with lineage to an original mask is fine. And I suppose you are right about the different mind sets.

Okay so a while ago I posted a whole thread on there with comparison shots of his mask to a stunt mask and claimed that it was a stunt mask and not the hero... I got shut down almost immediately by other members, mods, and even got a few harsh messages. Here are a few screenshots of that post to show what I'm talking about. Man am I glad you said that!!

 

[Darth Lars]

There are also those that think that recasting licensed limited-edition items from a defunct company is OK. The "abandonware" mentality...
It is a grey area to some. I am not sure myself.

 

[userd1402]

In general, if you buy the production prop and want to recast that to sell, it is accepted by the community. But that is if you personally have the original prop that you bought. It is not considered cool to... say, buy a cast from a guy who decided to recast HIS original prop he bought. If you acquired a cast and turned around and recast that... this is frowned upon. Even though the lineage is tied to the original, the community looks down on that form of a recast.

Hope that makes sense?

I often read, in the text descriptions of items being sold by some of some of the 'big names' in our hobby, the words "Cast from screen-used". Example; I own a cast metal "Police 995" uniform basge from Blade Runner which was made by RACprops and is 'cast from screen-used'. My usual assumption is that the original pieces (from which the cast in question has been pulled) have been purchased by the replica-seller themselves at great expense and since it was from an original production-made item it's all OK as the maker has not ripped off a hobbyist or small-business-level sculptor/builder.

But having read some of this thread, especially about the lineage of those Mike Myers masks, I'm starting to wonder how any of us can ever be sure the items we see for sale (or even buy) aren't 2nd/3rd/4th/5th generation recasts of someone's original sculpt?
After all it's not really practical to demand to see the original item/sculpt before ever buying a replica. Is it?

 

[PrincessJ]

lol...still not completely making sense to me....re-casting & copyright stuff is confusing.......

So a guy that has the screen used backpack from the original Ghostbusters movie asked if he should make a recast & didn't know the correct answer....

His wife bought it for him for over $10 000.00 and it's in excellent condition, it still lights up.....lol...it was amazing holding it & it's much heavier than I thought. So.....will recasting lower the value of the original screen used prop & when it is considered even ok...wouldn't he need to ask the original prop makers or film studio for permission? or will the new studio that holds the rights sue his ass off for recasting it?

I've heard that companies like Disney sue people all the time for reproducing stuff that they bought the rights too.....so how does that work?

In general, if you buy the production prop and want to recast that to sell, it is accepted by the community. But that is if you personally have the original prop that you bought. It is not considered cool to... say, buy a cast from a guy who decided to recast HIS original prop he bought. If you acquired a cast and turned around and recast that... this is frowned upon. Even though the lineage is tied to the original, the community looks down on that form of a recast.

Hope that makes sense?

 

[PrincessJ]

That's a really good point .... some things might be a 5th generation recast and some replica props are really well done that people can't tell if it's the original or not.... good to know

I often read, in the text descriptions of items being sold by some of some of the 'big names' in our hobby, the words "Cast from screen-used". Example; I own a cast metal "Police 995" uniform basge from Blade Runner which was made by RACprops and is 'cast from screen-used'. My usual assumption is that the original pieces (from which the cast in question has been pulled) have been purchased by the replica-seller themselves at great expense and since it was from an original production-made item it's all OK as the maker has not ripped off a hobbyist or small-business-level sculptor/builder.

But having read some of this thread, especially about the lineage of those Mike Myers masks, I'm starting to wonder how any of us can ever be sure the items we see for sale (or even buy) aren't 2nd/3rd/4th/5th generation recasts of someone's original sculpt?
After all it's not really practical to demand to see the original item/sculpt before ever buying a replica. Is it?