Questions for Airbrush artists - newbies ask questions!

Ok, here's a new question. I read that you should spray coats of flat lacquer between coats in case you mess up, so you don't have to redo the entire thing. I've been using Testors dullcote and glosscote lacquers(#1160/1161), but when ever I try to wipe off the mistake, everything underneath comes off as well.

Some articles I've read mentioned Testors flate cote lacquer (#2015), so what's the difference? I don't want to have to repaint every project a half dozen times, because the clear coat isn't doing what it's supposed to.

What do you guys use between, say, a final layer and a wash?

Thanks,
Fred
 
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Gigatron wrote:
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Ok, here's a new question. I read that you should spray coats of flat lacquer between coats in case you mess up, so you don't have to redo the entire thing. I've been using Testors dullcote and glosscote lacquers(#1160/1161), but when ever I try to wipe off the mistake, everything underneath comes off as well.

Some articles I've read mentioned Testors flate cote lacquer (#2015), so what's the difference? I don't want to have to repaint every project a half dozen times, because the clear coat isn't doing what it's supposed to.

What do you guys use between, say, a final layer and a wash?

Thanks,
Fred


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How long are you letting the laquer cure before recoating.

Nevermind that anyway. If you are spraying enamels and clearcoat with an enamel based product, you leave yourself open for problems if you have to remove a mistake. For that reason, I usually spray acrylics and clear coat with enamels or visa-versa.
Ever heard of Future? It is a floor polish (acrylic) that model builders have discovered and swear by for lots of different things (clear-coat, washes, insrument panels, etc.) If you are spraying with enamels, try a clear-coat of future before your next coat. Then, if you have to remove a mistake, the future will protect the first coat.
Future is gloss, but you can overcoat it with a matte spray after you are all done to dull it down.
 
Or... For example, if you are doing a complex camo pattern that is easy to screw up, try basecoating the main color in acrylic and applying the camo pattern in enamels. If you screw up the camo, you can easily remove it with thinner and not harm the acrylic basecoat.
 
Yeah, use enamel or lacquer clear coats and use acrylic paints. That way your thinner you use for correcting mistakes doesn't affect the clear coat. I use Krylon matte finish for between coats and let it dry overnight (if possible) and I use Citedel Matte finish for the final clear coat. Games Workshop's paints and rattle can finishes are kind of pricey but the matte coat is dead flat. Krylon is a lot cheaper, but sort of semi-gloss, so I use it for the between painting session coats. Think of it as clicking the save button on Photo Shop. It allows you to tweak the colors between painting sessions.

There's some cool techniques for weathering that work well with this too. If you undercoat your kit with the metallic color of your choice, then seal it with a gloss coat, you can use acrylics to paint your color scheme. Then go back with Q-tips or stiff brushes and some thinner to remove the color to show the metal underneath. It works well for heavy wear and for sharp edges, etc. You CAN'T seal your paint layer until after you weather it though.

Raygun
 
Well, so far, I'm painting exclusively with Com-art acrylics. The paint sprays beautifully, but seems to wipe off even after being sprayed with dullcote. I've let it sit over night after being sprayed, but no luck.

Here's an example. I painted the item, and gave it a liberal spraying of dullcote. The next day, I wanted to give it a glossy appearance. As it was a small area, I used Testors brushable glosscote. As I was applying the gloss, the paint underneath was coming off. I'm not sure what, if anything, I'm doing wrong. I followed the directions on everything, but still problems.

-Fred
 
The problem was applying the Testors gloss coat. It softened the matte finish and the Com Art paint. Try using Tamiya clear gloss instead, or some of the Testors Acryl (SP?)clear coats. They're not solvent based, so they won't attack the clear coat. If you're using acrylic paints, use enamel or lacquer clear coats and don't use any enamel or lacquer paints. Brushing an enamel over the enamel based matte coat is probably worse than spraying it, since you're actually physically touching the surface and disturbing a layer that's softened by the thinner in the paint. Spraying enamels over enamels is still touchy, but it can be done if you're careful.

I just try to stick with acrylics and use rattle can matte coats and I've had very few problems. You could always keep a piece of scrap plastic handy to paint on, so you can test your idea before ruining your work. Paint on the color you're using, seal it, and test the next layer of paint on that before you touch your kit.

If you just stick to the acrylics for everything and enamel or lacquer for clear coats, you should be good to go for 90% of what you're going to do.
 
I think I'm going to try automotive flat clear coat. I think testors dullcote is just a dulling agent, as opposed to acting as a barrier.

What I don't understand is why enamel solvent wouldn't affect the acrylic paint. If acrylics are water soluble, they would most certainly be soluble in anything stronger than that. The same way you can't remove enamels with water.

-Fred
 
The acrylic itself should not be affected by the solvent. It could be, that the acrylic that you are using is not very durable. I have found this to be the case with some craft paints (like what you buy at Wal-Mart) The solvent itself is probably not hurting it, but the brushing action could be. Try your acrylic on a scrap surface and after it dries, try hitting it with the brush in the same manner that you were with the solvent before and see if it lifts. It is also possible that the acryl is not bonding well with the surface of whatever it is you are painting. Did you use a primer first?
 
The acrylic paints would be effected by the enamel thinner. But if you seal with enamel after each painting session, you can use alcohol or an acrylic airbrush thinner (whatever works for your particular brand of acrylics) to remove mistakes applied AFTER your last seal coat.

BTW, I've never had problems using Media or alcohol on acrylic paint that was applied on top of Testors Dullcote. As long as you have a solid coat of clear on there, it should be "waterproof".

Raygun

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Gigatron wrote:
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What I don't understand is why enamel solvent wouldn't affect the acrylic paint. If acrylics are water soluble, they would most certainly be soluble in anything stronger than that.
-Fred
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Thanks for the replies guys
icon_smile.gif
. Maybe I'll try multiple coats of dullcote. I've only been applying one coat up until this point.

So we'll see what happens on my next project.

Thanks again guys, and if anyone else has any questions, here's the place to ask them.

-Fred
 
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Raygun wrote:
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The acrylic paints would be effected by the enamel thinner. </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

I have never had acrylic come off using enamel thinner, i.e., mineral spirits. Case in point. I use acrylics to paint the eyes on my figures and then artists oils to paint the face. When I inevitably get oil color inside the eyeball from stippling, I use a fine brush with thinner to remove the oil paint leaving the painted eye (white, iris, lens, pupil, catch lights) unaffected. However, it will definitely "stain" the acrylic paint with whatever color you are washing off so it is a good idea to use a sealer (future) over your acrylic base before applying more paint or a wash.
 
Bowjunkie,
Not sure what you're using but I've had issues with Acrylic paints "orange peeling" or lifting off in rubbery sheets from getting too much enamel thinner on them. I've noticed it's only the thicker paints though. No problems with Tamiya or Golden.

Also, I wasn't going to try to split hairs on what can and can't be used together...you could publish a 300 page manual on that. I just wanted to keep it simple since this was supposed to be posts for newbie airbrush users.

I've had all sorts of weird reactions with different paints and thinners over the years. You're supposed to be able to use the brand of crackle finish I bought with "any acrylic". Any acrylic except Badger paints
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I had no problems with any of the paints I mixed with it, except Badger...then I ended up with a super bounce Badger paint ball.

There are exceptions to every rule...I just seem to find the ones that cause me trouble
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I wasn't suggesting you guys don't experement. Mix and match whatever you want...just do it on a cheap kit. Save the experiments for that $10 recast....not your $200 masterpiece.

Raygun
 
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Raygun wrote:
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Bowjunkie,
Not sure what you're using but I've had issues with Acrylic paints "orange peeling" or lifting off in rubbery sheets from getting too much enamel thinner on them. I've noticed it's only the thicker paints though. No problems with Tamiya or Golden.

Also, I wasn't going to try to split hairs on what can and can't be used together...you could publish a 300 page manual on that. I just wanted to keep it simple since this was supposed to be posts for newbie airbrush users.

I've had all sorts of weird reactions with different paints and thinners over the years. You're supposed to be able to use the brand of crackle finish I bought with "any acrylic". Any acrylic except Badger paints
icon_lol.gif
I had no problems with any of the paints I mixed with it, except Badger...then I ended up with a super bounce Badger paint ball.

There are exceptions to every rule...I just seem to find the ones that cause me trouble
icon_lol.gif


I wasn't suggesting you guys don't experement. Mix and match whatever you want...just do it on a cheap kit. Save the experiments for that $10 recast....not your $200 masterpiece.

Raygun
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Exactly, great points all! We can give you all of the advice in the world but the bottom line is, you will develop techniques that work for you through practice and experimentation.
One thing that I and other model builders do is keep a junk model around for testing different techniques, finishes, wshes, weathering, etc. I have a Tiger 1 that has gone through the ringer, but as raygun said, it is best to try out something new on a piece like that than ruin an expensive prop, model or figure.
 
ok, I just read about shooting future wax through an airbrush, but there are some questions that aren't answered.

1)Can it be shot straight through, or does it need to be thinned down?

2)Do I need to shoot it at a higher pressure than my acrylic paints (currently at about 25 psi)?

3)How do you clean it out after you're done, regular airbrush thinner or something else?

4)Can I use a generic spray/mist bottle as opposed to gumming up my new brush?

Thanks,
Fred
 
Never tried it. The only think I know of that strips Future for sure is ammonia. I doubt you'd get a decent spray pattern from a spray bottle. But, Future is self leveling, so you could probably brush it on. What are you painting?? Is a huge area going to be covered in it or just using it to gloss eyes and teeth, etc?

Raygun
 
Actually I'd be using it to seal layers between coats. If it seals as well as people say, then I could probably use the testors brushable gloss coat to gloss small areas.

My next project is painting a fairly large bust that's going to have quite a few tone changes and washes. I was hoping to seal it in between layers to avoid having to start over when I mess up.

-Fred
 
Doesn't your paint bead up on top of the Future? Also, if you're using it as a between layers sealer, I'd probably thin it. Or you might start loosing some of the finer detail. I guess it depends on the scale of the kit though.

Raygun
 
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