Questions for Airbrush artists - newbies ask questions!

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by Gigatron, Dec 1, 2004.

  1. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Hey gang,
    I've been considering getting into airbrushing for a while, and all the recent topics have put me closer to getting one.

    I'm strongly leaning towards an Iwata HP-BCS (I prefer a bottle feed to a gravity feed because I tend to forget the top is open), but I was wondering what type of paint to use for painting resin or sculpy.

    If I wanted to paint a bust or some other resin props that I have laying around, what brands and types are recommended? I've read about transparent paints (I'm assuming multiple layers would do well to represent skin tones) and acrylics, but I'm wondering what you guys - people who actually do this stuff - recommend.

    Also, if anyone could recommend books/videos on painting resin (most airbrush stuff I found is graphic artist type stuff, signs, portaits, etc.), that would be great.

    Or, if the more talented/experienced painters wanted to share some tips, I (and I'm sure other beginners) would really appreciate it.

    -Fred

    And Mods, if this is on the wrong board, feel free to move it.
     
  2. division 6

    division 6 Master Member

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    First off you should check out Air Brush Action and Amazing Figure Modeler magazines.
    They have lot's of How-To's from professional artists that include listings of types of paints.

    AFM is really good for painting resin kit's with diffirent media.

    Don't try to stick to one type of paint, you may find diffirent paints will work better for some projects but not others.
    Plus there is the reactions of paints and your base it's going over.

    D6
     
  3. Peace Hunter

    Peace Hunter Well-Known Member

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    The gravity feed ones have a cover just for the reason that you stated. So if that is your only concern then I would go with the gravity feed one. I can't stress how much easier a gravity feed brush than any other brush.

    And ditto on what division 6 said. Use a variety of paints. I tend to stick to acrylic paints. They clean up better and go on nice and smooth.

    Robert
     
  4. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Hey guys,
    Well it looks like I'm getting the BCS (it fit better in my budget).

    D6, I checked out the AFM web site, there are some really great tips there, thanks! I may subscirbe to magazine or get the videos, not sure which yet. I'm going to see if I can pick up that other book locally.

    And if anyone else has anything to add, feel free.

    -Fred
     
  5. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    I've been thinking about getting the BCS too...I have the HPC and I love it, but there are times when I'm switching colors a lot for one kit, and a bottom feeder is faster for that. AFM is good, Airbrush Action is great.

    As for paints, I usually stick to acrylics for easy clean up and quick stripping of mistakes. Golden airbush paints are great to work with. They're spendy, but a little goes a long way. One of my favorite paints is still Citidel brand from Games Workshop. I mix them 1:1 with Golden Airbrush Medium for spraying. They have a high pigment content, so they don't lose much with that mix ratio and they go on extremely smooth and have a tough scratch resistant finish. Tamiya paints are great for the flat military look. I cut them 1:1 with rubbing alcohol for spraying and they dry super fast with great results. Don't waste your money on their thinner though...it's basically rubbing alcohol.

    Media Airbrush Cleaner is the sh*t for cleaning your brush. I take my brushes apart and soak them in it overnight to get out the dried on stuff that builds up. I have one bottle of clean Media for between strippings and one dirty bottle that I filter back into the bottle with a coffee filter that I use for soaking the brushes in.

    If you can swing it, I'd suggest grabbing an HPC too...maybe not right now, but in the future. It's a great all around brush. I'm still hoping to get a Micron eventually. I hate masking, and I've pretty much got it down to where I almost never have to mask, so I think with the Micron I can get away from masking all but the sharpest lines.

    The only paints I'd recommend staying away from are the Badger paints. Even though AFM pimps them and Modeler's Resource used to push them, they're just not worth the extra work to make them spray right. They clog your brush and dry on the needle constantly. Most guys I know won't touch them and the die hards insist that they're great....if you cut them with a retarder. I still have the 2 sets I got from MR when I was writing for them and they have some great colors, but they pretty much suck to use.

    Don't pass up the cheap paints either. Apple Barrel and other acrylic craft paints are pretty good, and most of them cost under $1.50. Walmart was selling them for .65 cents a bottle at one point. All of the ones I've used thin well with Windex and about half of them thin down great with straight rubbing alcohol. And Golden airbrush thinner works with any of them if you don't like the smell of Windex.

    Hope this helps some.

    Raygun
     
  6. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Hey Raygun,
    That's the kind of info I've been looking for [​IMG]! Thanks for the input.

    Does every airbrush paint need to be cut with a thinner, or just certain brands. I was reading the TIPS section at the AFM site, and he only mentions cutting when he's doing a wash.

    What about that Dr. Phil Martins stuff at dixieart? Can that be used straight, or does it need to be mixed with something else?

    I used to airbrush a looooong time ago, when the only affordable option to a kid were those badger sets you got at TRU for $15. They had either a bottle feed or a top feed, a can of air and like 4 colors. I tried both types of brushes and prefered the bottle feed for the same reason as you, quicker color changes.

    And Tamiya acrylic paint thinner (X-20A) which sells for $5 for 250ml, is no better than...Mineral Spirits (which also cleans up enamels) and I get that for $2.89 a quart at the hardware store.

    Thanks again for input here guys, and if anyone wants to share info, or any newbies have any questions themselves feel free to post.

    -Fred
     
  7. Peace Hunter

    Peace Hunter Well-Known Member

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    I guess it is just a matter of preference between a bottle feed and gravity feed airbrush. If I'm switching colors a lot I just use a tiny bit of the color so when I ready for the switch I just shot some water in there and clear it out real quick. Works faster than the bottles for me.

    As far as thinning out the paints I think Creatix is the only one that you can shoot right out of the bottle. All the others including Tamiya needs to be thinned out a bit.



    Robert
     
  8. darthgoat

    darthgoat Well-Known Member

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    I know for sure that Floquil paints need to thinned as do Testors, and Citadel paints. You can shoot some Floquil straight outta the bottle but the result will be crummy and you might get some clogs which is no fun. Some of the testors acrylics say they need a thinner but I've found they shoot fine directly from the bottle.

    One thing I learned is to strain you paints. If there is any debris or clumping your paints will clog the brush and as I said earlier, that's no fun.

    I do have a question though. I've got some paint build up in the back of the chamber of my HP-C. Clerval recommended a Windsor and Newton's AB cleaner but I can't seem to find it anymore. Can anyone recommend a good cleaner to soak this in? OR a better method to get rid of that nasty build up?
     
  9. masterjedi322

    masterjedi322 Sr Member

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    I got an airbrush last year, but I only started recently using it with Alclad paints. They do NOT need to be thinned, per their instructions. So far I've used the primer and gloss black, both of which worked very nicely. I'm hoping to paint a layer of the chrome soon, so we'll see how it goes. [​IMG]

    Keep up the tips though!

    Sean
     
  10. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    I think I'm going to go with Golden. They have a pretty decent color selection, and I just found a place that sells them for $2.43/oz www.artsupply.com.

    Other places seemed to be almost triple the price, so for colors you would use more often, you can get larger sizes without going broke. It works out to under $83, for 1 of each color in 1oz size.

    But what do can I use to cut Golden with, is there something specific or some home equivalent?

    And what is recommended for a liquid mask? Any particular brands anyone prefers?

    -Fred
     
  11. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    Not all of them need to be thinned. The Golden AIRBRUSH paints are already thinned. The tube paints need to be thinned. Some of the Golden colors are kind of shiny, but Testors Acryl clear flat can be mixed in to take the shine off. I mix it 3:1 paint to flat coat. Depending on the humidity where you live, the Golden paints can be slow drying...especially the Carbon Black, but the flat coat seems to accelerate the drying. Golden is also extremely thin, so it rubs off pretty easy before sealing it. It's a good and bad thing, since it's easy to remove if you screw up, but you have to be really careful while you're working.

    You don't have to cut the Golden airbrush paints with anything. They work straight from the bottle. The transparent line needs a matte coat sprayed on to the surface you're painting before you use them though. They bead up otherwise. Even the opaque colors are extremely thin. It takes some practice with your air pressure and paint flow settings to get to where you're not blasting it too hard. I bought a flow control handle for mine so I can find the setting I want for air pressure and not have to worry about hitting the same mark by feel every time. It works great.

    Raygun
     
  12. division 6

    division 6 Master Member

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    If your masking figures just use latex, as in liquid latex.
    it costs a lot less than say liquid frisk.

    Media (brand) Air brush cleaner is what you want to get.

    D6
     
  13. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    What about that Dr. Phil Martins stuff at dixieart? Can that be used straight, or does it need to be mixed with something else?

    Dr Martin's inks don't need to be thinnned, but those and the Windsor and Newton's inks have some colors that will bleed through the next layers of paint depending on the brands of paint you use afterward. A friend of mine introduced me to FW inks and I like those better than Dr Martin's and W&N. W&N are great for washes etc, but stay away from the reds...they bleed really bad.

    Somewhere I have a lead miniature from like 1986 that I tried to paint over W&N Crimson ink. Now it's a shapeless blob encased in pink tinted primer. It must have 20 layers of primer on it [​IMG]

    Raygun
     
  14. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Cool info gang [​IMG]!

    Ok, a few more questions:

    1)Is there a color brand as good as Golden but "easier" for a beginner to use?

    2)Raygun, what is this flow control handle you mentioned?

    3)D6, can I get liquid latex (or a particular brand name) at Michaels or is it more of a specialty item?

    That's all I can think of for now, but I'm sure I, or someone else, will come up with some more questions soon.

    -Fred
     
  15. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Gigatron wrote:
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    Cool info gang [​IMG]!

    Ok, a few more questions:

    1)Is there a color brand as good as Golden but "easier" for a beginner to use?

    Golden aren't hard to use....just pointing out some of the things to watch out for. Think of them as Tamiya paints that dry slower.

    2)Raygun, what is this flow control handle you mentioned?

    Ok, you have your double action button; up/down is air, forward/back is paint. The flow control handle replaces the back half of the body on the brush...the tube that screws off so you can access the needle to replace it. It has a knob on the end that when you screw it in only allows you to pull back so far. The further in you screw it the less paint you get, the further out, the more paint you get. Basically, you control the paint flow by setting the screw so that when the button is pulled back the needle hits it and can't open any further. It's great for when you need a consistant flow of paint for fine detail etc. I think they run about $25.

    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
     
  16. masterjedi322

    masterjedi322 Sr Member

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    My Passche VL has the flow control built right in if that helps. [​IMG]

    Sean
     
  17. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    My Passche VL has the flow control built right in if that helps.

    Sean


    http://www.arttalk.com/iwata/iwatapromo.htm#IWATA%20HP-CPlus

    I haven't used a Passche in years, so I can't remember what the layout was for it. The link above shows pictures of the HP-series of brushes. The knob on the back of the brush is what I'm talking about. All it does is stop you from pulling back too far and splattering paint. It's handy when you need a consistant flow of paint. You still have to control the air pressure with your finger unless you set it low/high at the compressor's regulator. I run mine at about 80 psi, but then again, I'm usually running two brushes, since my wife paints too. If I want to use really thin paints or inks I crank it down to about 20 psi and if I'm only running one brush I leave it at about 60-65 psi, which seems to work for most paints.

    Raygun
     
  18. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Ok guys, I thought of a few more questions...

    1) can I really clean the brush between colors with regular blue windshield washer fluid?

    2)Can I use Golden acrylics to paint a latex casting? There's a piece on ebay I'm watching and it's made from latex, and I don't want to end up purchasing the wrong paint for the job.

    3)Can I use tamiya acrylic thinner (X-20A) to thin down a color to use as a wash, or is there something else?

    Thanks again,
    Fred
     
  19. dropshipbob

    dropshipbob Sr Member

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    Do I have to fully take apart my airbrush in between different colors? I've been doing this as a precaution..so that paint doesn't clog the thing up, and I have to do more work later.

    Also, I hear about people putting their brush or parts of it in solvent to loosen up dried paint. What kind of solvent would one use? Doesn't it depend on weather it's enamel or acrylic paint? Will one solvent rule them all?
     
  20. Aegis159

    Aegis159 Sr Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Gigatron wrote:
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    Ok guys, I thought of a few more questions...

    1) can I really clean the brush between colors with regular blue windshield washer fluid?

    2)Can I use Golden acrylics to paint a latex casting? There's a piece on ebay I'm watching and it's made from latex, and I don't want to end up purchasing the wrong paint for the job.

    3)Can I use tamiya acrylic thinner (X-20A) to thin down a color to use as a wash, or is there something else?

    Thanks again,
    Fred


    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    1. It all depends on what type of paint you're using. About the only type I could see the windshield fluid working on would be acrylics, and honestly the aribrush thinner you would have for the acrylics would work just as well.

    2. The thing to keep in mind is that the paint will need to be flexible when painting latex. I've used polycarbonate paints for latex before and had no adverse effects that I saw (although I do not have the piece any longer so I don't know how it fares today). I'm not familiar with the Golden line of paints (there are so many out there any more) but there should be something in their documentation either at the mfg's website or in-store that should tell you whether it's usable on latex or not. No oil-based paints basically.

    3. Absolutely you can use the Tamiya thinner to thin down tamiya paints to be used as a wash. The Tamiya line of paints are really a special blend unto themselves though ( they're actually a type of acrylic enamel rather than a pure acrylic. Open up a bottle and the smell from the fumes of the special drying agent is a tell-tale sign) so I don't recommend mixing any Tamiya paints with any other acrylics. Although strickly sticking to the thinner, it could be used to thin other acrylic brands.
    For washes though Citadel has a line of paints specifically created to be used as washes. Just look for the bottles with the white caps.... it also says wash on the label, hehehe!
    Personally, I've always mixed my own washes. Just a bit of paint, some airbrush thinner to help it dry faster and some clean water.

    Hehehe yes I'm almost exclusively acrylics when it comes to airbrushing. They're far easier to clean up and a brush can be flushed and the paint switched within a few minutes. Oh and forget bottles unless you plan on mixing and using alot of the same color. paint cups is the way to go! [​IMG]
     
  21. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    If you're switching colors and you're going to continue painting, I'd say no...unless it's clogged, then yeah.

    I don't know what kind of brush you're using, but some have plastic parts that will disolve or weaken in harsh solvents, so be careful.

    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    dropshipbob wrote:
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    Do I have to fully take apart my airbrush in between different colors? I've been doing this as a precaution..so that paint doesn't clog the thing up, and I have to do more work later.

    Also, I hear about people putting their brush or parts of it in solvent to loosen up dried paint. What kind of solvent would one use? Doesn't it depend on weather it's enamel or acrylic paint? Will one solvent rule them all?
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
     
  22. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Gigatron wrote:
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    Ok guys, I thought of a few more questions...

    1) can I really clean the brush between colors with regular blue windshield washer fluid?

    Don't use the winter washer fluid...that's the one with the big skull and bones on the front that says poison. Personally, I'd use whatever thinner your paints require or Windex for acrylics if you're feeling cheap.

    2)Can I use Golden acrylics to paint a latex casting? There's a piece on ebay I'm watching and it's made from latex, and I don't want to end up purchasing the wrong paint for the job.

    You can test it, but I don't know how well they'll stay on a flexible piece. Try spraying some on the inside of the mask and see how well it sticks after it's dry for a day or two.

    3)Can I use tamiya acrylic thinner (X-20A) to thin down a color to use as a wash, or is there something else?

    You can, but alcohol is a lot cheaper.

    Thanks again,
    Fred
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    Raygun
     
  23. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Thanks so much for all the info guys [​IMG]!

    As I haven't purchased any paints yet, I may look into this Citadel brand as well.

    Has anyone heard of or personally tried Com-Art brand? I see it on the Dixeart site, and was wondering if it was any good. I figured if I'm placing an order from them, I might as well get as much from them as possible to try and get the free shipping.

    Thanks again,
    Fred
     
  24. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    Haven't tried com-art paints...if you get them let us know what they're like.

    The Citidel paints work great inthe airbrush if you cut them 50/50 with the Golden Airbrush medium. The Blood Red is an amzingly vivid shade of red if you spray it over white or yellow. They make a great matte finish spray that's nice and flat too. The Krylon matte finish is slightly glossy, but it's good for sealing paints between layers.

    I don't know how you guys do it, but once I hit a point where I'm happy, I seal it before moving on to the next level of detail and let it dry for 24 hours before adding more paint. That way the clear coat has time to cure and any new paint layers I add can be removed/touched up without removing it all. Example: I have the fleshtones done and I'm happy with the shading, so I seal it. Now when I come back to do the eyes and hair, anything I screw up can be wiped off with a Q-tip and some thinner or rubbing alcohol without messing up my fleshtones.

    Raygun
     
  25. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Ok, I'll be a Com-art guinea pig [​IMG]!

    I'll have nothing else to compare it's quality to, so I'm not sure how accurate my results would be.

    I have a small piece I sculpted, so if I screw up, I'm not out anything, [​IMG].

    I won't have any reults until after christmas when I get my airbrush, so until then, let's keep with the tips, hints and newbie questions.

    -Fred
     
  26. dropshipbob

    dropshipbob Sr Member

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    My airbrush is a Pasche VL, double action. Don't like the double action feature so much as I have an itchy finger. [​IMG]

    Only part on it that I can tell is plastic is the back of the main body, which unscrews to allow access to the needle. So if I remove that...I'm good. Except I don't know what's inside the airbrush...might be some rubber seals I don't know about? The instructions that came with it are kinda confusing as it lists all the parts and their names/numbers for three different airbrushes.

    I've heard of people using blue window cleaner (the stuff for home use, not the automotive kind) to thin paints. Is this a good idea?
     
  27. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    dropshipbob wrote:
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    My airbrush is a Pasche VL, double action. Don't like the double action feature so much as I have an itchy finger. [​IMG]

    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    I have the same concerns [​IMG]. The only airbrush I owned prior to this, was a single action. I'll probably go through a ton of paint just trying to figure out how to control the thing.

    It looks like it's going to an expensive hobby [​IMG].

    -Fred
     
  28. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of people using blue window cleaner (the stuff for home use, not the automotive kind) to thin paints. Is this a good idea?

    Yeah, Windex works great. I haven't had much luck with the discount brands of window cleaner. Only mix what you're going to use though. Some paints seperate in the Windex over time. Also, don't worry about the blue color...it doesn't alter the paint color.

    Double action does take some getting used to. That flow control knob I mentioned earlier helps a lot. It's just a case of practice before it becomes second nature.

    Raygun
     
  29. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Well, from what I've read, Com-art paint is from Medea, and they in turn, are in cahoots with Iwata. Long story short, it looks like Iwata makes Medea, so com-art should work extrememly well. Here's to hoping [​IMG].

    -Fred
     
  30. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Ok, so to dredge up an old topic, I ended up getting the Iwata eclipse BCS (bottom feed), and com-art paints.

    The hardest thing to come across was a compressor. I didn't want to pay several hundred dollars for a single purpose compressor, so I purchased a Craftsman 91513. It's a great little compressor (3 gallon, 1.5 hp, 2.4 cfm @ 90 psi) and is multipurpose. It's a little on the loud side, but initial fill up and reload times are quick. Best part is it's $99 at Sears.

    Anyway, my question here is, what should the operating psi be for a bottom feed airbrush? I've been tinkering around at 50 psi, but that is insanely powerful. I see that for gravity feed, you can use between 20 and 30 psi, so what do you experts recommend?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated guys.

    -Fred
     
  31. masterjedi322

    masterjedi322 Sr Member

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    I have a bottom-feed airbrush, and I've been doing my stuff around 20 psi. It seems to work well for me.

    Sean
     
  32. bowjunkie35

    bowjunkie35 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, 20 psi for a siphon feed should be good for you. I have an Aztek 470 and it is a siphon feed. I can run it as low as 8 psi and still get paint flow (for very fine lines and detail work)
     
  33. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    Umm, well...I guess it depends on what you're trying to do and how you control the flow at the brush. I use an HPC which is a double action brush, so the final air flow is controlled by how far down I push the button. I tend to leave mine at about 60 psi or so, but I'm usually running two brushes since my wife also paints kits.

    I've had it as low as 10-15 psi for spraying really thin inks, but I really didn't see any huge advantage to having it set low. The lower you go, the less atomization you get in the paint/air mix. I guess you're "supposed" to spray thinner stuff at lower pressures, but I have better luck running higher and just controlling the pressure at the brush.

    I think this is one of those grey areas where you have to try different pressures with different paints to see what effect you get. In general, thinner paints and inks will require less pressure than thicker paints. I also don't abide by the "all paints should be the concistancy of milk" rule. It really depends on what you're painting style is.

    The thinner you go, the more translucent your paints will be, which is great for building up fleshtones and veins, etc but sucks for painting armor. Translucent paints can be fun for doing see through clothing too. I have a Judge Anderson kit that needs to be stripped and repainted, but I decided to give her an almost see through outfit. I painted her fleshtones in then shaded her armpits, crotch etc with translucent black for shadows and used transparent blue to build up the skintight latex body suit. I wasn't going for pornographic, just a hint of flesh through the blue. It was coming along great until the brush spit water on it.

    On the other hand, thicker is great for getting a rough looking finish on armor type kits. If you look at a kevlar helmet it has a textured look to it and you can sort of simulate a rough surface with thicker fast drying paints like the Tamiya paints. It also gives you something to drybrush over.

    Getting back on the subject though, your air pressure will need to be adjusted to get different effects with different paints. I know it was long winded, but I wanted to give you some examples and ideas.

    Hope it helped some [​IMG]

    Raygun
     
  34. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    Yeah...duh. I forgot about that. I have some Com Art paints. They work nice, but the translucent colors vary from great to "beads up on any surface". The ones that tend to bead up seemed to work best (for me at least) with a lot of air and almost no paint. The Com Art paints I think are designed to work great with paper and canvas, but the translucents are so thin and watery that they bead up on resin and plastic. I had to spray clear matte finish on before they would work. Once again it's a case of trial and error to figure out what works best for you.

    Raygun

    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Gigatron wrote:
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    Well, from what I've read, Com-art paint is from Medea, and they in turn, are in cahoots with Iwata. Long story short, it looks like Iwata makes Medea, so com-art should work extrememly well. Here's to hoping [​IMG].

    -Fred


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  35. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Thanks for the replies guys [​IMG]. I'm going to try and run it around 30 psi and see how that works. I'm basically using it for models, resin kits and busts. I won't be doing any clothing type things, as I'm not all that talented [​IMG].

    -Fred
     
  36. Sluis Van Shipyards

    Sluis Van Shipyards Master Member

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    Ok for you people who have the Iwata HP-CS. How do you fill the color cup without spilling paint down the side of the airbrush? Obviously you don't fill the cup full, but I've used mine twice and spilled twice. [​IMG]
     
  37. Jedirick

    Jedirick Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Excellent thread. I'm going to ask it me archived,


    Just solved a clog problem I have been having with a Testors external mix brush. It just is not craft type acrylic friendly.
    Always used Windex to thin paint, just tried the alcohol and spray pattern is now smooth. Of course I took a couple shots of alcohol myself and am now very smooth![​IMG]
     
  38. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    I pour from the bottle carefully if I'm lazy and use an eye dropper when I can find one that's not clogged [​IMG] As for keeping the paint in the cup while you're painting, use the cap. And sh**t happens...I paint without the cap a lot of the time since I hate prying it off between color changes (lazy again) and I've slopped paint on myself as payment for it. Just don't wear any clothes you want to wear in public again.

    Raygun

    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Sluis Van Shipyards wrote:
    <HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Ok for you people who have the Iwata HP-CS. How do you fill the color cup without spilling paint down the side of the airbrush? Obviously you don't fill the cup full, but I've used mine twice and spilled twice. [​IMG]

    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
     
  39. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Well I dropped down to 30 psi, and it's a 100% improvement. I get much better control and I'm not blowing my project across the spray booth [​IMG].

    Here's something wierd though. When I change bottles between colors, everytime I pull out the bottle, there's a big glop of paint still in the brush neck, and it of course falls on me. Is this normal for a bottom feed, or am I missing something?

    -Fred
     
  40. masterjedi322

    masterjedi322 Sr Member

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    I typically experience the same thing with my Paasche VL, which is bottom-fed...although, as an airbrush noob, I'm curious as to whether this is normal as well, and if there's anything that can be done to prevent it.

    Sean
     
  41. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Ok, here's a new question. I read that you should spray coats of flat lacquer between coats in case you mess up, so you don't have to redo the entire thing. I've been using Testors dullcote and glosscote lacquers(#1160/1161), but when ever I try to wipe off the mistake, everything underneath comes off as well.

    Some articles I've read mentioned Testors flate cote lacquer (#2015), so what's the difference? I don't want to have to repaint every project a half dozen times, because the clear coat isn't doing what it's supposed to.

    What do you guys use between, say, a final layer and a wash?

    Thanks,
    Fred
     
  42. bowjunkie35

    bowjunkie35 Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Gigatron wrote:
    <HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Ok, here's a new question. I read that you should spray coats of flat lacquer between coats in case you mess up, so you don't have to redo the entire thing. I've been using Testors dullcote and glosscote lacquers(#1160/1161), but when ever I try to wipe off the mistake, everything underneath comes off as well.

    Some articles I've read mentioned Testors flate cote lacquer (#2015), so what's the difference? I don't want to have to repaint every project a half dozen times, because the clear coat isn't doing what it's supposed to.

    What do you guys use between, say, a final layer and a wash?

    Thanks,
    Fred


    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    How long are you letting the laquer cure before recoating.

    Nevermind that anyway. If you are spraying enamels and clearcoat with an enamel based product, you leave yourself open for problems if you have to remove a mistake. For that reason, I usually spray acrylics and clear coat with enamels or visa-versa.
    Ever heard of Future? It is a floor polish (acrylic) that model builders have discovered and swear by for lots of different things (clear-coat, washes, insrument panels, etc.) If you are spraying with enamels, try a clear-coat of future before your next coat. Then, if you have to remove a mistake, the future will protect the first coat.
    Future is gloss, but you can overcoat it with a matte spray after you are all done to dull it down.
     
  43. bowjunkie35

    bowjunkie35 Well-Known Member

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    Or... For example, if you are doing a complex camo pattern that is easy to screw up, try basecoating the main color in acrylic and applying the camo pattern in enamels. If you screw up the camo, you can easily remove it with thinner and not harm the acrylic basecoat.
     
  44. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, use enamel or lacquer clear coats and use acrylic paints. That way your thinner you use for correcting mistakes doesn't affect the clear coat. I use Krylon matte finish for between coats and let it dry overnight (if possible) and I use Citedel Matte finish for the final clear coat. Games Workshop's paints and rattle can finishes are kind of pricey but the matte coat is dead flat. Krylon is a lot cheaper, but sort of semi-gloss, so I use it for the between painting session coats. Think of it as clicking the save button on Photo Shop. It allows you to tweak the colors between painting sessions.

    There's some cool techniques for weathering that work well with this too. If you undercoat your kit with the metallic color of your choice, then seal it with a gloss coat, you can use acrylics to paint your color scheme. Then go back with Q-tips or stiff brushes and some thinner to remove the color to show the metal underneath. It works well for heavy wear and for sharp edges, etc. You CAN'T seal your paint layer until after you weather it though.

    Raygun
     
  45. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Well, so far, I'm painting exclusively with Com-art acrylics. The paint sprays beautifully, but seems to wipe off even after being sprayed with dullcote. I've let it sit over night after being sprayed, but no luck.

    Here's an example. I painted the item, and gave it a liberal spraying of dullcote. The next day, I wanted to give it a glossy appearance. As it was a small area, I used Testors brushable glosscote. As I was applying the gloss, the paint underneath was coming off. I'm not sure what, if anything, I'm doing wrong. I followed the directions on everything, but still problems.

    -Fred
     
  46. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    The problem was applying the Testors gloss coat. It softened the matte finish and the Com Art paint. Try using Tamiya clear gloss instead, or some of the Testors Acryl (SP?)clear coats. They're not solvent based, so they won't attack the clear coat. If you're using acrylic paints, use enamel or lacquer clear coats and don't use any enamel or lacquer paints. Brushing an enamel over the enamel based matte coat is probably worse than spraying it, since you're actually physically touching the surface and disturbing a layer that's softened by the thinner in the paint. Spraying enamels over enamels is still touchy, but it can be done if you're careful.

    I just try to stick with acrylics and use rattle can matte coats and I've had very few problems. You could always keep a piece of scrap plastic handy to paint on, so you can test your idea before ruining your work. Paint on the color you're using, seal it, and test the next layer of paint on that before you touch your kit.

    If you just stick to the acrylics for everything and enamel or lacquer for clear coats, you should be good to go for 90% of what you're going to do.
     
  47. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    I think I'm going to try automotive flat clear coat. I think testors dullcote is just a dulling agent, as opposed to acting as a barrier.

    What I don't understand is why enamel solvent wouldn't affect the acrylic paint. If acrylics are water soluble, they would most certainly be soluble in anything stronger than that. The same way you can't remove enamels with water.

    -Fred
     
  48. bowjunkie35

    bowjunkie35 Well-Known Member

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    The acrylic itself should not be affected by the solvent. It could be, that the acrylic that you are using is not very durable. I have found this to be the case with some craft paints (like what you buy at Wal-Mart) The solvent itself is probably not hurting it, but the brushing action could be. Try your acrylic on a scrap surface and after it dries, try hitting it with the brush in the same manner that you were with the solvent before and see if it lifts. It is also possible that the acryl is not bonding well with the surface of whatever it is you are painting. Did you use a primer first?
     
  49. Raygun

    Raygun Well-Known Member

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    The acrylic paints would be effected by the enamel thinner. But if you seal with enamel after each painting session, you can use alcohol or an acrylic airbrush thinner (whatever works for your particular brand of acrylics) to remove mistakes applied AFTER your last seal coat.

    BTW, I've never had problems using Media or alcohol on acrylic paint that was applied on top of Testors Dullcote. As long as you have a solid coat of clear on there, it should be "waterproof".

    Raygun

    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Gigatron wrote:
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    What I don't understand is why enamel solvent wouldn't affect the acrylic paint. If acrylics are water soluble, they would most certainly be soluble in anything stronger than that.
    -Fred
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
     
  50. Gigatron

    Gigatron Sr Member

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    Thanks for the replies guys [​IMG]. Maybe I'll try multiple coats of dullcote. I've only been applying one coat up until this point.

    So we'll see what happens on my next project.

    Thanks again guys, and if anyone else has any questions, here's the place to ask them.

    -Fred
     

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