Please stop using push rivets on plastic

[blownhemi]

I'm really not a fan of the rivet work, but I will say this about them: in cases where the joined pieces need to move, the rivet can act as a pivot point whereas if the pieces are welded there is no pivot point so some other solution would have to be reached.

Now, I prefer accurate over idealized so if someone is striving for that, I'm sure they can work out how to make whatever move without sacrificing authenticity.

 

[JaxTher]

Very cool. I'm a noob so any options on techniques are appreciated. I've got to go with those who try to make their work as accurate as possible. My sister is more into the Ren Fair stuff BECAUSE it has the artistic, make it up as you go side. I happen to enjoy props because there is a standard and a level of perfection that is trying to be reached. I'm also limited by apartment living, makes me want to look for a pad with a garage! Great discussion!

 

[Hamsterstyle]

This is interesting... One of the shifts I've been seing in the board lately is that there's been a lot more "that's expensive", "that's too much work", "it doesn't need to be perfect" lately.

I used to think of the RPF as the place where things DID need to be perfect... or at least as close as humanly possible.

To me, using an exposed rivet where one does not exist in the original just doesn't make sense. If you KNOW something is inaccurate, why consciously choose to do it that way, rather than trying to get it as "right" as possible?

I smell a post in off topic about this...

I actually considered a post about this out of curiousity.

How do you define a costume, vs building a replica costume?

I consider myself a costumer with delusions of one day doing a replica costume, so sometimes I think I'm at the wrong place, but I do really like the communty here so I'm not leaving

When I look at anything I've ever made, costume or traditional art, all I can see is the flaws, all I can see is what doesn't look right, doesn't move right, isn't the right fabric, etc. I look at my General Kael project and alll I see is what is wrong with it, but I still like it and I still like how it turned out. I just forces me to make it better next time.

Personally I love the rivet and plastic medium, it's not too expensive, it's quick, it's perfect for making plate armor type costumes that a former DnD nerd like myself loves putting together. I mean, how else am I going to make my Lord Soth costume finally.

 

[stormtrooperguy]

To me there is no difference... costume = replica. I'm obsessive like that, I know. I spent a year making the chain maile for an Aragorn costume I wore twice.

I don't think it's about money per se... Take the rivets for example.

I use rivets and snaps in my clone armor.

I put the rivet through a small piece of plastic, then glue that to the inside of the armor. So I have the rivet to hold the strap in place, but it doesn't show.

It adds some extra scrap plastic and some glue. Nothing exposed, good strength, and it just adds a few hours of assembly.

 

[Frosteon]

Ok, the videos were interesting. I have no experience with welding, so I'm hoping a first timer can do it.. lol.

I guess I'll go ahead and throw this out there too.. is there any way to remove rivets as well?

And what about a video on working with fiberglass or sewing vest/tunic patterns? I'm planning on making a Boba Fett suit eventually and I already have the armor templates printed from TDH, and I'm wanting to get around to making some kind of uniform from Star Trek as well.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread, so if anyone wants to PM me a video, I'd like to see it.

 

[Vegas Vader 2]

sorry for going OT guys..

in order to make my own props i had to invest in my first tool which was a dremel. then some files, mouse sander, heat gun, and up till now i am still in the process of looking for some quality tools that will help me improve my work. im not suggesting you buy all the tools at once. in the end, it will all be worth it. next up would be a belt sander, drill press, air compressor and hopefully a milling machine.

all i need really right now is a place to work on my projects...:confused

 

[themanwoaname]

the plastic welders look alot like soldering irons. i tried to do a little plastic welding for my first holsters for my comedian costume and it abruptly snapped in action. i was pissed.

if i ever make armors, im using rivets. i dont think anyone would have the cajones to stand next to a full suit of armor and point out rivets and not expect to be kicked in the groin.

 

[Pilot]

To me there is no difference... costume = replica. I'm obsessive like that, I know. I spent a year making the chain maile for an Aragorn costume I wore twice.

I don't think it's about money per se... Take the rivets for example.

I use rivets and snaps in my clone armor.

I put the rivet through a small piece of plastic, then glue that to the inside of the armor. So I have the rivet to hold the strap in place, but it doesn't show.

It adds some extra scrap plastic and some glue. Nothing exposed, good strength, and it just adds a few hours of assembly.

See, now *this* is an incredibly useful technique that combines the ease/speed of riveting with just a little more time investment on the final assembly end of things - and improving accuracy at the same time. It's (seemingly) simple little tidbits like this that people pick up over time and start to incorporate into their builds.

I'm really not trying to pick a fight with anyone, and I apologize if I've come off that way, but lately it seems like there's a huge "Us versus Them" thing going on around here. What ever happened to community support, open sharing of techniques, and *constructive* criticism?

We've had a ****load of new people join this board in the last year, and alot of them are young and inexperienced. It's our duty, if I can say that, to help them become "seasoned" builders. Introducing them to things like plastic welders is awesome, and to 00MrNotWrong00, I do apologize (although not publicly - nobody else read this part :lol ) for snapping at you. I know you are trying to help folks, and while I still think rivets are OK I can definitely see what you were trying to convey.

Anyway, this has turned into a wall of text that nobody's gonna read, so I'm going to bed.

 

[themanwoaname]

i said what i said above mostly because in the videos it appeared that the tools he was using were out of my price range. im having trouble figuring out the right air compressor i can afford to use a da sander on.

 

[GunsAndGloryFX]

Thanks for the links! Reminded me of my TAP plastics tutorial video binge...I could watch that stuff for hours.

 

[izabel]

I think the best realization in making armor is that its not going to be put in a museum nor used in a theatrical release. With that said, there comes a point in making things where functionality and being screen accurate clash.Plus, there's just no way to make mkv armor that's accurate. Its just not possible.

we'll take this as a challenge. :angel

 

[bigboy]

how accurate are we talking? like full on unfolding suitcase? maybe with a combination of springs and tiny servos......hmm. how small is the smallest servo?

 

[Shade]

the plastic welders look alot like soldering irons. i tried to do a little plastic welding for my first holsters for my comedian costume and it abruptly snapped in action. i was pissed.

if i ever make armors, im using rivets. i dont think anyone would have the cajones to stand next to a full suit of armor and point out rivets and not expect to be kicked in the groin.

I DEFINITLEY agree with kicking him in the groin part. Oh and sorry to go off topic but its spelled cojones, sorry, I took sapnish, & I'm a bit obsessive. Seriously though, If I'm wearing full Ironman MkIII (My current build) and it just happens to have a few rivets in it, who cares. I would kick anyone in the balls who had the nerve to come up to me and b**** about them.

Sorry, just a fair warning now. DONT **** WITH ME! Tee-hee.

 

[00MrNotWrong00]

Well it took me like 30 min to get the feel for it and to get the air flow right , But now that I've had a little practice I can't believe I wrote this thing off as a P.O.S. four years ago.

In the pictures below you see a piece of abs at .060 welded to another piece with no bubbles (like you get in petg if it is over heated on your vac-form press) .

I'm very happy with this 20 dollar item and I think anyone and everyone that likes working with plastic should make a point of learning this technique.

Also , my shop is very well vented but even with my face right up against my work I didn't smell anything, as apposed to when I put this stuff on the vac-former , where it smokes and stinks up the place and you have to leave the shop .

Very cool thumbsup:thumbsup

 

[foxbatkllr]

This is interesting... One of the shifts I've been seing in the board lately is that there's been a lot more "that's expensive", "that's too much work", "it doesn't need to be perfect" lately.

I used to think of the RPF as the place where things DID need to be perfect... or at least as close as humanly possible.

To me, using an exposed rivet where one does not exist in the original just doesn't make sense. If you KNOW something is inaccurate, why consciously choose to do it that way, rather than trying to get it as "right" as possible?

I smell a post in off topic about this...

I agree...some of the comments in this thread are just...disappointing. I used to consider the RPF to be the best of the best but it seems to be heading in the direction of the 405th. Don't get me wrong, you still have the experts and those like us who care greatly about accuracy but it seems there has been a shift.

 

[Sean Bradley]

I think one way to elevate the quality of the RPF might be to not rip on the 405th so much... that would be classy. Thanks.

:/

Many thanks MrNotWrong for this thread and the explanation of the process. It's not the first time I've learned something from your posts.. so thanks! I've had some use for a plastic welder but didn't really know anything about it. I'll have to pick one up at Harbor Freight next chance I have.

Are there any limitations to the type of plastic that you can use these welders on? I saw in the video that there are corresponding types of fill rod depending on the plastic..

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

I agree...some of the comments in this thread are just...disappointing. I used to consider the RPF to be the best of the best but it seems to be heading in the direction of the 405th. Don't get me wrong, you still have the experts and those like us who care greatly about accuracy but it seems there has been a shift.

Like all shifts, it is temporary at best. Some people will get their feet wet in sculpting by clearning up some of the pep work they do. They will learn how to refine a piece, clean up lines and add detail. How is this a bad thing?

 

[mrbungle]

i am in the make it as freaking accurate as possible club. sometimes i succeed, sometimes i don't. if a part is not there but i need the part to make the costume stronger , then i find a way to hide the reinforcement. not make it obvious. costumes are about illusion. you are creating an illusion of something not real.

but don't ever half ass a project, do it right or learn from your mistake and move on.

 

[STEALTH]

I agree...some of the comments in this thread are just...disappointing. I used to consider the RPF to be the best of the best but it seems to be heading in the direction of the 405th. .

uncool

If some projects hurt your eyes, dont look at them.

 

[00MrNotWrong00]

I think one way to elevate the quality of the RPF might be to not rip on the 405th so much... that would be classy. Thanks.

:/

Many thanks MrNotWrong for this thread and the explanation of the process. It's not the first time I've learned something from your posts.. so thanks! I've had some use for a plastic welder but didn't really know anything about it. I'll have to pick one up at Harbor Freight next chance I have.

Are there any limitations to the type of plastic that you can use these welders on? I saw in the video that there are corresponding types of fill rod depending on the plastic..

When I first got mine I didn't know anything about it. I fooled around with it for an hour or two and then tossed it in a box thinking it was a complete wast of money, and I threw the rods that came with it in the trash. Today I just used strips of abs that I cut off the sheet I was welding. Once I got the air flow and the downward pressure right It kinda shocked me how fast and easy the two parts became one. It's funny, as you push down the plastic on both sides of your "bead" wells up like a wave and follows your joint. I was also surprised that there was no deforming on the other side.

They sell rods at hf and I will most likely pick a pack up next time I'm there but if I run into a plastic I can't identify (like what's a plastic pallet made of) I'll just cut a strip off it and use that as my rod.