I honestly think I remember roger commenting once “I mixed up some super glue and held the grips on with that”
Maybe it was that 2 part epoxy and Roger just calls it super glue?
PIH Selling Another "Original" Luke ANH Hilt
- Thread starter H0llyw00d
- Start date
I honestly think I remember roger commenting once “I mixed up some super glue and held the grips on with that”
Maybe it was that 2 part epoxy and Roger just calls it super glue?
TheUnchosenOne
Active Member
"Super Glue," like Kleenex, is a brand name that has become a common name. While there are plenty of holes in his stories about these over the years, I'm not sure using the term "super glue" in 2018 as opposed to "2-part epoxy" or "Insert Actual Brand Name Here" or whatever is one of them
Its just easier to say and spell then Cyanoacrylate
You know, the special effects team never put a dowel into a Graflex as far as we know. They installed a motor into those tube-things for ANH.
ESB and ROTJ... still working out what they used, but still. nice to hear about the squishy foam handles we see on the ESB Making of book.
ESB and ROTJ... still working out what they used, but still. nice to hear about the squishy foam handles we see on the ESB Making of book.
scarf man
Master Member
I agree.
I know! i seems mark is very adamant that the grips were changed because they hurt his hands so much. hes said this now multiple times. i wonder if thats the reason why the grips are missing on the stunt in the archives today. maybe decomposed and fell off?
Man, I was afraid Roger Christian was gonna do this. After that first one, and the questionable backstory with the storage unit full of Graflex flashes, blah blah etc etc and the story continually changing (he had new t tracks made ((riiiigght, he bought the replicas we all use)) and then suddenly he has vintage track and bubbles).
I suppose it's not unheard of, but it's a little weird to me that a Set Decorator would be designing and building props in the first place. I work with Set Decorators all the time, and Set Dec is not the same department as Props, or prop FX shop. Still, I suppose the story that he came up with the Graflex lightsaber idea had been around for quite some time, so it's totally possible.
Anyway, I don't believe for one second that what he's offering up for auction is anything more special than the replicas we have all made over the years, and he's not even assembling them the way they were assembled back then! That D-ring placement is just awful looking.
So we've got a Hollywood Set Decorator, who likely doesn't have to worry much about money, trying to pull a fast one and sell a lie to some unfortunate fan. I think Roger Christian should be ashamed.
I suppose it's not unheard of, but it's a little weird to me that a Set Decorator would be designing and building props in the first place. I work with Set Decorators all the time, and Set Dec is not the same department as Props, or prop FX shop. Still, I suppose the story that he came up with the Graflex lightsaber idea had been around for quite some time, so it's totally possible.
Anyway, I don't believe for one second that what he's offering up for auction is anything more special than the replicas we have all made over the years, and he's not even assembling them the way they were assembled back then! That D-ring placement is just awful looking.
So we've got a Hollywood Set Decorator, who likely doesn't have to worry much about money, trying to pull a fast one and sell a lie to some unfortunate fan. I think Roger Christian should be ashamed.
JMSupp
Well-Known Member
Based on Christian's AMAs, I have a hard time thinking this one is legit. It looks good... almost too good. Is it possible that the Set Decorator happened to have several identical lightsabers? Absolutely. I just have a hard time with the thought of having one that conforms EXACTLY to the hero suddenly showing up years later, seemingly out of the blue. Possible. I am wary, especially since there are some great build guides... and good repro parts easily available.
The thing is, how many people who have the money to buy this are really doing a deep dive and learning all the nuances of lightsabers? Most are going to take the auction house description and go on that. The fact that it came from the Set Decorator only makes it SEEM more legit.
The Gary Kurtz / Don Bies saber still sold quite well, both times it sold. I suspect that the buyers bought the auction description, and didn't check out places like this, or other forums and groups. It's not surprising, really, that a buyer wouldn't take the time to do more research. Most tend to trust that the auction house had done it's due diligence. In general PIH, who sell tons of original props, do a decent job with most of their stock, and have removed questionable items in the past, so I think it's reasonable for a buyer trust them.
Fortunately, there are places like this and others that have the drive and knowledge to to suss out the crazy details! I'm interested to see if any more information comes out about this particular saber.
The thing is, how many people who have the money to buy this are really doing a deep dive and learning all the nuances of lightsabers? Most are going to take the auction house description and go on that. The fact that it came from the Set Decorator only makes it SEEM more legit.
The Gary Kurtz / Don Bies saber still sold quite well, both times it sold. I suspect that the buyers bought the auction description, and didn't check out places like this, or other forums and groups. It's not surprising, really, that a buyer wouldn't take the time to do more research. Most tend to trust that the auction house had done it's due diligence. In general PIH, who sell tons of original props, do a decent job with most of their stock, and have removed questionable items in the past, so I think it's reasonable for a buyer trust them.
Fortunately, there are places like this and others that have the drive and knowledge to to suss out the crazy details! I'm interested to see if any more information comes out about this particular saber.
Last edited:
JMSupp
Well-Known Member
When $150k or more is at stake, I can see why people would feel the temptation of the Dark Side. In other areas of collectibles, people have done far more work for much smaller returns.
The ease at which a Graflex can be made into a lightsaber is astonishing. even using mostly original parts. Replica parts are there, the research on parts is already done... just a few hundred dollars and a few hours, and you can have one that is almost identical to the hero prop. There aren't many props that I can think of that have that rate of return... if you can get someone to buy the story.
The ease at which a Graflex can be made into a lightsaber is astonishing. even using mostly original parts. Replica parts are there, the research on parts is already done... just a few hundred dollars and a few hours, and you can have one that is almost identical to the hero prop. There aren't many props that I can think of that have that rate of return... if you can get someone to buy the story.
Wonder how many high-end collectors have found out privately that they were in fact duped, and just sat on the info? I can imagine after spending so much money, if there's no recourse to get the money back, it's easier for some to just keep quiet and keep displaying/whatever rather than swallowing their pride and saying 'yup I got taken'.
The speculation regarding provenance has got me thinking about the history of the V2.
If I was to offer speculation as to who the keeper of the V2 was—-prior to it’s current ownership by Brandon—I would speculate that it was producer Howard Kazanjian.
He seemed to have somewhat recognized the value of these things—at least from a sentimental standpoint—and had kept more than a few prop items for his personal collection. He would have also been in a position, during ROTJ, to have acquired the prop after its use in filming in Yuma.
I hope someday that we hear the actual story of the prop and how it ended up where it is today.
If I was to offer speculation as to who the keeper of the V2 was—-prior to it’s current ownership by Brandon—I would speculate that it was producer Howard Kazanjian.
He seemed to have somewhat recognized the value of these things—at least from a sentimental standpoint—and had kept more than a few prop items for his personal collection. He would have also been in a position, during ROTJ, to have acquired the prop after its use in filming in Yuma.
I hope someday that we hear the actual story of the prop and how it ended up where it is today.
JMSupp
Well-Known Member
Laellee, in my experience, it seems to depend on the market. In the militaria market, there seem to be plenty of people willing to to dupe someone else to unload a piece they now know is fake. That is mostly among the older crowd, it seems, but it seems to happen there more then anywhere else. With the internet, that has gotten much harder, thank goodness.
In the art world, people will spend tens of thousands of dollars to try to have their paintings or prints deemed authentic, even if they have good reason to expect they have a fake. This can go on for years, in the hopes that they can recoup their losses. A lot of pieces disappear into the woodwork for years, decades even, only to show up again, in the hopes that the next generation of authorities will re-examine the piece, and call them good.
Prop collecting is still a fairly recent phenomenon, and because it has such a narrow nostalgia window, holding onto it for a few decades is probably not a good move. Look at what happened with one of the Kurtz/Bies sabers. If I remember right, it sold for $200k and change, to Paul Allen, or at least his museum. 5 odd years later, it show up again, sells for $400k to Ripley's. (Correction: Not the same lightsaber, but both were from Kurtz, according to SethS.) Smart move if you have something of questionable or no history...
Right now, it seems that the market consensus is that a lightsaber from someone who is in a position to have likely acquired a production made saber is at least $150-250k. Regardless of how "original" the parts or, or if it was even screen used. Can you imagine what one that had rock solid provenance would go for?
After a bit more research, and some thinking, I'd honestly expect that an absolutely authentic saber would sell for more then the Ripley's, but not by a tremendous amount. That end of the market is pretty small, I imagine, and has been burned before. They're probably wary... if not, they should be!
Edited for correction. Thanks SethS!
In the art world, people will spend tens of thousands of dollars to try to have their paintings or prints deemed authentic, even if they have good reason to expect they have a fake. This can go on for years, in the hopes that they can recoup their losses. A lot of pieces disappear into the woodwork for years, decades even, only to show up again, in the hopes that the next generation of authorities will re-examine the piece, and call them good.
Prop collecting is still a fairly recent phenomenon, and because it has such a narrow nostalgia window, holding onto it for a few decades is probably not a good move. Look at what happened with one of the Kurtz/Bies sabers. If I remember right, it sold for $200k and change, to Paul Allen, or at least his museum. 5 odd years later, it show up again, sells for $400k to Ripley's. (Correction: Not the same lightsaber, but both were from Kurtz, according to SethS.) Smart move if you have something of questionable or no history...
Right now, it seems that the market consensus is that a lightsaber from someone who is in a position to have likely acquired a production made saber is at least $150-250k. Regardless of how "original" the parts or, or if it was even screen used. Can you imagine what one that had rock solid provenance would go for?
After a bit more research, and some thinking, I'd honestly expect that an absolutely authentic saber would sell for more then the Ripley's, but not by a tremendous amount. That end of the market is pretty small, I imagine, and has been burned before. They're probably wary... if not, they should be!
Edited for correction. Thanks SethS!
Last edited:
David3
Sr Member
So the saber seen in this photo (I assume is the one that had the dowel or rod fitted for the fx shot) has the graflex clamp with the bubble strip positioned on top instead of to the left or right (?). If you watch the movie frame by frame you can see the switch in configuration. I didn't think that was possible because of how the top and bottom halves lock into it. No relevance to the one at auction but interesting to note.
matty matt
Sr Member
Exactly. Some people might not even want to know. And in a case like the Ripley's saber, it doesn't even matter to them if it's real or not. They're paying for the story and the publicity around it.
Correct that is the original graflex stunt. Made out of a aluminum tube.
Check out Seth’s lightsaber guide book for more details
Similar threads
