Origins of the ROTJ Vader helmets: JY thread continuation

[Art Andrews]

Now, that goes both ways, doesn't it?

Well, of course it does! Don't mistake me for taking sides here. My issue is with those who are saying Gino shouldn't dare to question Brian because of who Brian is and his involvement with the production of Vader. In my opinion, NO ONE is above being questioned... and yes, I know, Gino is one of the world's worst about "this is what it is, but I can't tell you why or how." While Gino is often right, in my opinion when he makes those kinds of statements, they are of very little value to me because there is no proof backing them and I don't want to trust his or anyone's word on their word alone. Call me a skeptic but I want to see it for myself and prove it to myself and not just accept anything as fact based solely on an individuals word.

 

[CSMacLaren]

... in my opinion when he makes those kinds of statements, they are of very little value to me because there is no proof backing them and I don't want to trust his or anyone's word on their word alone.

The burden of proof should be upon the accuser (Gino) not the accused (Brian). So perhaps GINO should consider the evidence that is contrary to his opinion first before trying to publicly smear Brian.

All this talk of GINO shouldn't dare to question Brian is a distraction from all the times Gino has told us to not dare to question him but to look at his mannequins. The "dogpile" you're claiming are people who are fed up with this and are actually daring. Well said, it goes both ways.

 

[Art Andrews]

There is a big difference between asking someone about their role in a production and belittling it. Not to mention that it was an offense to Brian.

I have no idea what Brian did/didn't do in the production of Vader. Are you saying that Gino's post (a few pages back) about Brian's involvement is incorrect? If it is, then for the sake of all who will read this thread, why wouldn't you, or Brian or SOMEONE correct Gino's misstatement. If his post was correct, why would Brian be offended or you consider it belittling? Again, I think you are taking too narrow of a view here and focusing on Gino... Forget Gino.... what about all the others who read this post? Aren't they worth posting what you believe is the truth? You would deny them all that information purely to spite Gino?

 

[SithLord]

I have no idea what Brian did/didn't do in the production of Vader.

http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=16187

 

[CSMacLaren]

I have no idea what Brian did/didn't do in the production of Vader. Are you saying that Gino's post (a few pages back) about Brian's involvement is incorrect? If it is, then for the sake of all who will read this thread, why wouldn't you, or Brian or SOMEONE correct Gino's misstatement. If his post was correct, why would Brian be offended or you consider it belittling? Again, I think you are taking too narrow of a view here and focusing on Gino... Forget Gino.... what about all the others who read this post? Aren't they worth posting what you believe is the truth? You would deny them all that information purely to spite Gino?

I think you're confusing "dare to question Brian" with "entrapment."

 

[Art Andrews]

I work in the Movie/amusement park Industry as well as a sculptor and modelmaker and know about the fact, that creative people´s out there do have to be taken very carefully for granted

I am totally with you...

Brian was more then involved and works a s a professional -in fact THE coolest professional out there in the business (from my point of view) and Gino never. There are galaxies between them. After close reading, every word of Brian should be paid with gold...

You totally lost me... because what it seems like you are saying here is that because Brian is "cool" and Gino is not (basically a popularity contest) that we should believe everything he says. That is NOT the basis for good analytical thinking.

We should be extremely thankful, having Brian here in this discussion board. It´s unbelievable great, having him here, sharing his time with us Vader nuts!

And we are back in agreement again! I think it is simply amazing how many people in the industry or from the productions of our favorite movies who once seemed to be unreachable are now willing to interact with us. They are able to offer a perspective that we would otherwise not have. Still, I think it is dangerous to idolize them too much and to place them on too high of a pedestal in which they can tell us stormtroopers are pink or boba fett's helmet is metal...

 

[Brian Muir]

Sadly that is true.
Even more sadly is the reasoning behind it.
Brian basically started going thread after thread posting direct insults (4 to be exact before I was able to put a stop to it).
I can't believe that someone such as Brian would stoop to that level.
Arguing on forums is for us lowly folk. People like Brian is supposed to be 'above' it. At least in my opinion.


.

'above' what exactly? Why should I be 'above' it when you're the one that insults anyone who disagrees with you?

Let's tell the truth here - all I did was post on your site that Darth Karo's Vader was #1 in my opinion but yours was a good attempt

Also I posted on your monologue to your fans which said that you're fed up with telling everyone you're right and they're wrong that you were wrong about the ROTJ helmets and you know it

I wanted to come off your site as I do not want to be assosiated with a site that is about you only and knew that this would be a quick result and it was great fun!!

Brian

 

[SithLord]

I have no idea what Brian did/didn't do in the production of Vader. Are you saying that Gino's post (a few pages back) about Brian's involvement is incorrect? If it is, then for the sake of all who will read this thread, why wouldn't you, or Brian or SOMEONE correct Gino's misstatement. If his post was correct, why would Brian be offended or you consider it belittling? Again, I think you are taking too narrow of a view here and focusing on Gino... Forget Gino.... what about all the others who read this post? Aren't they worth posting what you believe is the truth? You would deny them all that information purely to spite Gino?

Sure, forget someone who shows disrespect to the person who brought Darth Vader to life. I find it hard to believe how you can simply ignore the tone of Gino toward Mr. Muir.

If I did that with Don Bies, what would you do?

 

[StarWars Collector]

Second attempt:

Never said he was not telling the truth. Just that he has been given incorrect information.

Gino, on what do you base this opinion?

 

[Art Andrews]

http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=16187

OK... Went through that interview pretty quickly and apparently I am still missing it. What was it that you feel specifically that Gino said about Brian's involvement that is incorrect or belittling. It seems that what he said about Brian's involvement more or less summarizes what you posted.

Ugh.. I feel that I am getting mired in this specific issue instead of the larger issue at hand of not believing those who worked on the production should be questioned...

 

[Trap Joe]

Tanks. No, not bcause cool or uncool, but because being a professional worker in film industry who gave us the Vader Sculpt or just a hobbyist like the rest of us who try to have a copy of a "real Vader".

'above' what exactly? Why should I be 'above' it when you're the one that insults anyone who disagrees with you?

Let's tell the truth here - all I did was post on your site that Darth Karo's Vader was #1 in my opinion but yours was a good attempt

Also I posted on your monologue to your fans which said that you're fed up with telling everyone you're right and they're wrong that you were wrong about the ROTJ helmets and you know it

I wanted to come off your site as I do not want to be assosiated with a site that is about you only and knew that this would be a quick result and it was great fun!!

Brian

No worries Brian - welcome in the Gino arrogance problem group. Same we all (with deep knowledge or better things than Gino has) suffer or suffered from!

Again: best to ignore this little dictator.

 

[GINO]

I wanted to come off your site as I do not want to be assosiated with a site that is about you only and knew that this would be a quick result and it was great fun!!

Brian

I say this with all sincerity. It is very disappointing to see someone (almost a hero amongst us) stoop to that kind of behavior. Regardless of any disagreements, it saddens me to see the ugly (human) side of our 'heroes'.

.

 

[SithLord]

You totally lost me... because what it seems like you are saying here is that because Brian is "cool" and Gino is not (basically a popularity contest) that we should believe everything he says. That is NOT the basis for good analytical thinking.

Well then I guess 33 years in the industry count for nothing? How many times do we see images or footage from behind the scenes in ANH and Brian knows exactly who the people are, what departments they worked in, etc.?

Are you also saying that there is reason to suspect what Brian is saying is not the truth...based on what...simply that Gino says it isn't true?

 

[Art Andrews]

Sure, forget someone who shows disrespect to the person who brought Darth Vader to life. I find it hard to believe how you can simply ignore the tone of Gino toward Mr. Muir.

If I did that with Don Bies, what would you do?

I think Don has been questioned on here before about some of his statements and has very graciously made retractions when he was incorrect.

I think we are getting back on track a bit here...

The perception I have, based on the last 100 or so posts is that there is a general sense that Gino is being "disrespectful" because he disagrees with Brian's assessment of the source of the RotJ helmet (hope I have that correct... if not, you know what I mean). My question is; why is it disrespectful to question Brian (or anyone)? If Gino was in here screaming that Brian was an idiot... well I would expect an infraction, but it seems that he is being dogpiled because he doesn't agree with what Brian was told about the source of a helmet...

 

[Brian Muir]

I say this with all sincerity. It is very disappointing to see someone (almost a hero amongst us) stoop to that kind of behavior. Regardless of any disagreements, it saddens me to see the ugly (human) side of our 'heros'.

.

:lol

 

[CSMacLaren]

I say this with all sincerity. It is very disappointing to see someone (almost a hero amongst us) stoop to that kind of behavior. Regardless of any disagreements, it saddens me to see the ugly (human) side of our 'heros'.

.

Baloney. There was nothing sincere about your character defamation at the beginning of all this, which arose because the idea of an ROTJ-sourced mask contradicts your supposition that there were no ROTJ-sourced masks.

Brian shouldn't have to defend himself, and the Moderators should look at the real issue here.

That the man who sculpted Vader contradicts the self-appointed "expert" of all time in public view is probably the worse slap in the face since '77. No wonder Gino isn't happy.

 

[JoeR]

Art does this every time in a thread that attacks Gino. He argues for his friend regardless of the subject matter. Shall I find the threads, to prove my point?

Joe

 

[CSMacLaren]

Art does this every time in a thread that attacks Gino. He argues for his friend regardless of the subject matter. Shall I find the threads, to prove my point?

Joe

A moderator should examine the broader context of a discussion rather than focus on helping a friend look like a hero amid all this baiting, smearing and entrapment.

 

[Trap Joe]

Art does this every time in a thread that attacks Gino. He argues for his friend regardless of the subject matter. Shall I find the threads, to prove my point?

Joe

oh yes? My first thought was that he must be a paid dog of Gino:lol
Sorry Art - just kidding!

 

[Brian Muir]

Art does this every time in a thread that attacks Gino. He argues for his friend regardless of the subject matter. Shall I find the threads, to prove my point?

Joe

And there's me giving him the benefit of the doubt thinking he hadn't read everything that had been posted

Brian