Origins of the ROTJ Vader helmets: JY thread continuation

[defstartrooper]

And while we're on the subject of not being able to prove for sure without access to the original ROTJ helmets lets not forget the only person to have made a claim as fact is GINO, he says it's fact that all the ROTJ helmets were redressed ESB helmets.
Thomas is only airing theories he's not the one making claims of fact.

 

[SithLord]

Quote:
Originally Posted by defstartrooper
The ROTS original is based off an ROTJ pattern and is also smaller, which leads him to the belief that the original ROTJ helmets are smaller than the original ANH.
Granted he may well be wrong but there's a reasonable posibility his theory could be correct, at least reasonable enough not to make out he's saying something completely ridiculous like the sky is red.

I'm fairly certain Don dispelled that myth a few pages back.

I deal with what I see in front of my eyes, can measure, or extrapolate to the originals, not myths.

 

[ArtisanProps]

And while we're on the subject of not being able to prove for sure without access to the original ROTJ helmets lets not forget the only person to have made a claim as fact is GINO, he says it's fact that all the ROTJ helmets were redressed ESB helmets.
Thomas is only airing theories he's not the one making claims of fact.

you should go back and reread past posts because Don and Brian M already
confirmed Gino to be correct

 

[SithLord]

I would go back and reread past posts because Don and Brian M already
confirmed Gino to be correct

No, a member posted that. But Brian has been disagreeing with Gino because there was a production mold, and Don has yet to say Gino is correct that all the ROTJ helmets are made from original ESBs.

 

[ArtisanProps]

I agree Gino - the ANH was used for ESB and ROTJ with minimal changes. The ESB was not moulded to create the ROTJ it was from an ANH mould and worked on.

Brian

Here ya go Thomas... Maybe you missed this...

 

[defstartrooper]

Here ya go Thomas... Maybe you missed this...

Well that doesn't agree with GINO does it because he says they were taken from an ANH mold and worked on, GINO says all the ROTJ helmets were not newly molded they were redressed ESB.
It does agree in that he says a new mold was not made for ROTJ.

 

[SithLord]

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianian
I agree Gino - the ANH was used for ESB and ROTJ with minimal changes. The ESB was not moulded to create the ROTJ it was from an ANH mould and worked on.

Brian

Here ya go Thomas... Maybe you missed this...

The ANH was the base for ESB. It was always thought the ESB was the base for the ROTJ. Now Brian says based on his own helmet that the base was ANH. Is that the same as saying that the ROTJ helmets are original ESB? Come on. Brian stated that his helmet was from the ROTJ production from a production mold. Gino disagrees and says it was just a mold lying around but not for the production. So get it right please and don't misconstrue what people post.

 

[GINO]

Brian stated that his helmet was from the ROTJ production from a production mold.

Yes, possibly the SAME production mold that originally made the ESB's.
NOT a newly created mold specifically for ROTJ.

But that's the best scenario Brian could hope for to be the source of his helmet and definitely a possibility.
But it's not a confirmation by any means.


.

 

[SithLord]

That also kind of pisses all over Thomas' conclusion that the ROTJ's should be smaller than the ESB's or any ANH style base casting to come from that mold.

Whoops.


.

Whoops again. We have no idea what that production mold was from, do we? That doesn't discount anything.

And he basically says you are wrong and that there was a production mold for the ROTJ helmets meaning they made ROTJ helmets for the production.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Well that doesn't agree with GINO does it because he says they were taken from an ANH mold and worked on, GINO says all the ROTJ helmets were not newly molded they were redressed ESB.
It does agree in that he says a new mold was not made for ROTJ.

Okay...if an ANH helmet was modded into an ESB helmet, is it a far stretch to see that they would clean up the helmet, fresh coat of paint, remount the dome and go from there too? If you do not need to spend the money, why would you? Paint and labor is cheaper than recasting, painting and the labor.

 

[Darth Niob]

Okay...if an ANH helmet was modded into an ESB helmet, is it a far stretch to see that they would clean up the helmet, fresh coat of paint, remount the dome and go from there too? If you do not need to spend the money, why would you? Paint and labor is cheaper than recasting, painting and the labor.

How much more money? Its one step more...cant be that much...especially in a 27 million dollar production.

 

[RBJ]

..how about approaching this question from a different angle..

I've seen photos that show the ANH belt re-used for ESB

I've seen photos that show the ESB hero chestbox re-used for ROTJ

maybe some one with better pics than me :love would be able to place a ESB helmet in ROTJ?

 

[defstartrooper]

Okay...if an ANH helmet was modded into an ESB helmet, is it a far stretch to see that they would clean up the helmet, fresh coat of paint, remount the dome and go from there too? If you do not need to spend the money, why would you? Paint and labor is cheaper than recasting, painting and the labor.

Not inconcievable no, but what is this cost and time crap ?
according to GINO every authentic casting that's come to light over the years(excluding his of course) is something one of the crew members knocked up in their lunch hour, times no factor obviously.

Cost ? how much is a bit of gelcoat and matting ? we're not talking like the production had a $500 budget here.
The production people don't work on a piece produced basis so there's no reason to think it would be anymore expensive to pull a few helmets and start from a clean base than to take old already finished helmets,strip them, repaint and redress them.

 

[GINO]

according to GINO every authentic casting that's come to light over the years(excluding his of course) is something one of the crew members knocked up in their lunch hour, times no factor obviously.

That's not true. I don't think mine is any more special than what some other people have.

.

 

[ArtisanProps]

Cost ? how much is a bit of gelcoat and matting ? we're not talking like the production had a $500 budget here.
The production people don't work on a piece produced basis so there's no reason to think it would be anymore expensive to pull a few helmets and start from a clean base than to take old already finished helmets,strip them, repaint and redress them.

The prop and costume makers had more then Vader to worry about so it
would be narrow minded to think they had all the money and time in the world
to screw around with 1 character

Get it done and move on to the next project

 

[Darth Niob]

Not inconcievable no, but what is this cost and time crap ?
according to GINO every authentic casting that's come to light over the years(excluding his of course) is something one of the crew members knocked up in their lunch hour, times no factor obviously.

Cost ? how much is a bit of gelcoat and matting ? we're not talking like the production had a $500 budget here.
The production people don't work on a piece produced basis so there's no reason to think it would be anymore expensive to pull a few helmets and start from a clean base than to take old already finished helmets,strip them, repaint and redress them.

Ok, you said it better than me...Touche

 

[Darth Niob]

The prop and costume makers had more then Vader to worry about so it
would be narrow minded to think they had all the money and time in the world
to F around with 1 character

But its one of if not the most popular character!!

 

[ArtisanProps]

But its one of if not the most popular character!!

Yes but these props weren't looked at the same way we look at them..
they were just props for a movie....

 

[defstartrooper]

The prop and costume makers had more then Vader to worry about so it
would be narrow minded to think they had all the money and time in the world
to F around with 1 character

Did you not read my last post ? what time ? why would it be a big time factor to pull some fresh casts which are clean and ready for finishing,rather than mess about stripping down old stuff ?
How much does a bit of gelcoat cost and matting ?

 

[ArtisanProps]

Did you not read my last post ? what time ?

What Time? Ummmmm Let's see? Deadlines for the start of filming..
Your forgetting that the characters are generally made first and then filming...
These guys didn't exactly work at their own leisure......