Origins of the AA/SDS Armor

[vaderdarth]

Very true clutch... The eveness of the heat across the sheet of ABS can change the thickness of the sheet before it's vacformed, during the vacforming (stretching) and pooling near the base. Most every vacformed piece will have varying thickness if you wanna measure it with your calipers. Typically, the plastic sags when heated prior to pulling.......and it's not uniform.....the middle is usually thinnest. But that too can vary if you have "hot spots" in other locations. Sometimes the heating elements can droop from their proper location and cause an area to heat up more. That's just one of the drawbacks of the process.

Dave

 

[Lord Abaddon]

Now this is a good and interesting discussion. Thank you everyone for pulling together to work things out and understand things better.

This is what the RPF is really about (as we've seen in the Obi and Han pieces threads).

 

[Dark One]

Can you even get AA/SDS props in the States????? I know of people that have the SDS helmets but it seems they got them second and third hand from overseas. i am really enthralled about all the history of molds and such. It seems so much is put into it's not original unless it was made from ALL original molds. I understand this but if the molds have degraded I would think the pulls would just be horrible and who would want that? In a perfect world I would just go for the whole original suit. And we all know who the lucky one is that has that. I also understand that this whole mess would not have happened if the word "original" would have been excluded. Re-worked would have been fine I guess????? i love how this thread is going. Very good info.

 

[vaderdarth]

I agree Dark One..... In this case a "fan suit" is being made by the original creator of the trooper suits. That has it's own nostalgic attraction. It's more than just another fan suit. It's rather cool to say, this suit was hand made by the guy who made the original Movie stormtroopers. Woo Hoo..... Sorry got carried away...

Dave

 

[Clutch]

More likely made by his employees.

 

[Art Andrews]

Originally posted by vaderdarth+Nov 9 2005, 11:12 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vaderdarth @ Nov 9 2005, 11:12 PM)</div>

Exoray,  I see your point,  but again,  I'm not gonna speculate Andrew's motives for what he puts in an email.........nor do I find it constructive to compare suits using blurry pics.
[/b]

OK, not trying to pick a fight but having seen some of the pics and comparisons you guys use in the Vader threads to DEFINITIVELY argue your side, this statement is downright hilarious. However, I agree with you. Blurry pics are NOT good for comparisons.


<!--QuoteBegin-vaderdarth@Nov 9 2005, 11:12 PM
I do agree that it will be refreshing to see both suits side by side in the same pics.  That will answer several questions.  It won't, however prove that his motives were ill concieved...  He might have just goofed.  What if the "all moulds present" includes original moulds and reverse engineered moulds from other suits????  What if in his mind,  it's the same thing???  He obviously doesn't have the keen eye for details from each of the different movie suits.  For all we know a stormtrooper is a stormtrooper is a stormtrooper.    In the email I saw.......he said all the "mouldings" were there.  He has specifically used the word mouldings in the past when talking about the physical armor pieces made off the moulds.  I saw it in an email myself.   

I totally agree with you even though this is somewhat outside of the scope of this thread. I think Andrews takes a VERY different attitude to what is "original" and what are "molds." Having talked directly and indirectly to a number of people who have worked on the films over the years, it is obvious that they don't take these things even 1/100th as seriously as we do. As you said, a stormtroooper is a stormtrooper is a stomrtrooper in their mind... noit really all that different fromt he general public.

I still find the short stem at the top of the ab plate box very disturbing and am suprised that no one else seems to find that a big deal...

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

TE, GF and GINO's suits all came from the same source... an ROTJ suit.

Exactly.

Again, I think there are some different goals here by different members. I think some are just interested in being able to say AA is a liar and a recaster.

Exactly.

The problem is that the baby will be thrown out with the bathwater. Regardless of what AA might really have, I dont think he will ever be granted a fair shake.

To that same end, regardless of the contributions of the "others" they wont be given a completely fair shake.

Too much money, ego and reputation for some people to give up, give into, or admit.

But on the other hand Braks, from a 'dealer' point of view, I can understand how those "different members" feel; their rationale in other words.....whether or not I agree with it, or would stick to my guns regardless of what is...or what is not true--- is a different story.

That is why I can say with all truth that this story is like the abortion issue. The argument will never end....reasonable rationales on both sides but never a willingness to empathize with the 'other' side and other legitimate perspective. Either way, somebody gains (more) in the end if the issue is closed on one side or the the other. :unsure

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

I also believe that certain people should RECUSE themselves of chiming in because their objectivity would simply not be reliable.

But here is the conundrum....some of those same people are also very knowledgable about this topic.

Nevertheless, I think anyone who has a history of offering trooper armor or helmets should seriously consider recusing themselves. They would very likely prove more in the end by doing so.

Truth has a history of coming out in the hands of ordinary people anyway....especially around here

 

[exoray]

Originally posted by Brak's Buddy@Nov 11 2005, 04:03 PM
I still find the short stem at the top of the ab plate box very disturbing and am suprised that no one else seems to find that a big deal...

[snapback]1114571[/snapback]​

Yep from the pictures so far I would say that is the most disturbing one so far, it's not movie accurate in any way shape or form and you can toss up 110 excuses of why the SDS suit has this issue, but the only explaination that I believe will hold water is that it was sourced directly or indirectly from GF's original work...

Until better pictures come out we can't say for sure, but IMO the majority of the AB plate looks much more like a recast (or at least blatent referenced copy) of GFs work then any of the other possible sources... The difference in the button area is to be expected as it's obvious that that area has been redone/reworked to remove the raised buttons...

 

[Gilmortar]

Well...what would you consider worse? The fact that the claims of it being a true ANH suit are false? or that parts are recasted from another persons suit?

We can beat this issue into the ground till we are blue in the face. Its not going to add anymore to the apparent topic at hand.

Finding the origins. Yes, maybe it is a ROTJ suit, like EVERY OTHER SUIT OUT THERE.

Maybe its an SE suit? Maybe its from pieces of an ESB suit.

Maybe it was fully resculpted by AA and has entirely new molds and can be considered the newest in new age troopers.

Maybe the 7th page that has been reached here is just a cop out. Seeing how 2 people have posted any kind of comparison pics, it seems that all this thread is going to is another 22 pages of "You're wrong, I'm right" comments.

If there is anyone here who has worked with Mr. Ainsworth on making these suits, then please, step foward. I am honestly tired of hearing the "AA has told my friend this" or "I have heard through the grapevine that AA has this..." or "I think AA...". These tidbits of opinion don't prove anything for what we are trying to achieve.

I think we need to stick to the focus of the ORIGINS of the armor, and not to this idea of "lets find out who he recasted."

Graciously Ghost Host has offered to take comparison photos for us when he recieves his suit, and we are greatly appreciative of that. Thank you GH.

So that said. Keeping on track...thank you...

 

[troopermaster]

Originally posted by Brak's Buddy@Nov 11 2005, 09:03 PM
I still find the short stem at the top of the ab plate box very disturbing and am suprised that no one else seems to find that a big deal...

[snapback]1114571[/snapback]​

The stubby stem is not found on any version of the real stormtroopers,only on fan made suit's.It should be longer and thinner to be accurate ANH.The oblong box detail below it is also too squared up.It is out of square on the real suit's and there should be a slot behind the single strip of buttons too.

If we can get a pic of the top edge of the abdomin we will see if it's a recast.All the fan made armour from ROTJ suit's have the top edge flaring outwards where the trim would on the original ROTJ they were cast from.ANH suit's did not have this feature at all.

In the pics on AA's site,the armour also features 2 duplicate outer right shins and missing the inner left just like a TE/GF.They also have the joining/overlap strips which are not found on the original ANH suit's.

 

[exoray]

I think we need to stick to the focus of the ORIGINS of the armor, and not to this idea of "lets find out who he recasted."

Well what happens if/when that becomes one in the same? It that forbidden in this thread?

As ANH trooper has pointed out there is only one source for the stubby thick middle stem on the AB plate, that would be linked directly back to GF's original sculpt... Not any movie or tour suit, so in essence we know that the ab plate on the SDS suit is not from a movie suit, tour suit or original molds (unless they were reworked to look like GF's ab plate...)

So at least for the ab plate the origins appear be narrowed down to a new or reworked sculpt based on the GF part or a recast of the GF part...

I though that was the point of this thread to source the origins of the armor? For at least one part we are down to two possible origins...

 

[Ghost Host]

Yes, you're definitely welcome. I'm chomping at the bit to get the new armor and take some comparison pics. That being said, 2 things I want to say:

1. My motivation is NOT to attack AA in any way. I think he's a very nice and skilled fellow. Hopefully the pics will show that there are differences between his armor and the fan suits out there... hopefully.

2. whoever wants to request specific pic angles or comparisons just let me know. I'll try to oblige when I get my stuff.

Originally posted by LittleOleBountyHunter@Nov 11 2005, 03:19 PM
Graciously Ghost Host has offered to take comparison photos for us when he recieves his suit, and we are greatly appreciative of that. Thank you GH.

So that said. Keeping on track...thank you...

[snapback]1114644[/snapback]​

 

[Gilmortar]

Originally posted by exoray@Nov 11 2005, 06:41 PM

I think we need to stick to the focus of the ORIGINS of the armor, and not to this idea of "lets find out who he recasted."

Well what happens if/when that becomes one in the same? It that forbidden in this thread?


I though that was the point of this thread to source the origins of the armor? For at least one part we are down to two possible origins...

[snapback]1114656[/snapback]​

I know bro, don't get me wrong. Mainly, I don't wanna see another lynch mob form. I just want to keep it open-minded and think "maybe he sculpted the stubby ab line with it"... not "its recasted from a GF suit"

So don't get me wrong, IF...IF...IF it comes to it that there is without doubt, that objects have been recasted from known producers suits, then that will be the time for such...

But for now, I am going more on the "Innocent until proven guilty" ya know man?

Definately, we are getting more and more closer to finding out...but still...we haven't gotten close enough to cry wolf.

 

[Clutch]

Veering off a bit, but did anyone notice how the post for the SDS armor in the junkyard suddenly disappeared? Glad I saved the image.

 

[troopermaster]

Your right. I just checked and all trace has vanished,strange...........

 

[rigormortis]

That's because I bought it.

I do have the pics from the thread, but would be happy to post pics when it arrives.

 

[vaderdarth]

Yup, I missed it by 3 minutes.......LOL Congrats man.....

Dave

 

[rigormortis]

I guess every dog has his day and yesterday was mine for luck. I thought for sure I didn't have a chance... Temporarily broke, but you only live once.

 

[vaderdarth]

Absolutely man.......in this hobby is feast or famine......LOL