Origins of the AA/SDS Armor

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by jeezycreezy, Nov 6, 2005.

  1. jeezycreezy

    jeezycreezy Well-Known Member

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    If you don't like SDS threads where people try to hold him accountable for his products, then don't read this thread.


    Since we can't discuss this in a show off thread l'd like to give this topic a home as was suggested.

    I'm very curious as to the source of the molds used to produce SDS's stormtrooper armor. I'm not accusing anyone of anything at this point. It just seems that there is reasonable enough doubt at this point to warrant further investigation.


    I'd like to see some close-up pictures of the SDS armor and the TE armor it is allegedly cast from. I think a good visual comparison will pretty much deep-six any and all doubt and, with it, any further debate. It will either look very different or it will look similar. I'd like to know which.

    Surely there are enough people here that we could hook up owners of both suits to do some side-by-side comparisons.


    It may not be your cup of tea, but some of us do care and some of us do want to know what's going on so please allow us the freedom to do so here without any squabbling or personal attacks. Honestly, I don't want to discuss the discussing of this armor so please keep your posts on topic and productive.


    If you want to discuss his helmets, then do it in an other thread unless it pertains to a patten of behavior or is applicable to the armor.

    If you can't be civil, don't post here.

    If you want to attack me for starting this thread or accuse me of muckraking, fine. But I assure you it won't be productive.

    If you think that holding a prop maker accountable and trying to uncover the truth is bashing, then this is not the thread for you. Frankly I find the people who complain about these threads in these threads frustrating as it adds nothing and suggests sadism on the part of the poster.

    If you think that Andrew Ainsworth is simply taking back what's his, then you're essentially saying he is a recaster and that that is okay. I don't think it is.

    For the record, any reference to the beating of horses won't stop this.


    To borrow the opening two sentences from Lemony Snicket's The Bad Beginning
    If you are interested in stories with happy endings, you would be better off reading some other book. In this book, not only is there no happy ending, there is no happy beginning and very few happy things in the middle.

    Don't say I didn't warn you.

    Cheers.
    TJ
     
  2. Gilmortar

    Gilmortar Sr Member

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    Hopefully this will remain civil...

    But mainly in the AA/SDS threads, people were posting pics of comparisons, and then it came up:

    "well the angles are like 1* off, so its inaccurate"

    I'll find the pics that were posted, but there were DEFINATE valid points and rebutles on both sides.
     
  3. Gilmortar

    Gilmortar Sr Member

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    I am also sure that my friend, will probably be more then willing to pose for a fe shots in his TE for comparison.
     
  4. Gilmortar

    Gilmortar Sr Member

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    Alright, here are pics that ANH Trooper outlined that show definative differences between suits...

    [​IMG]
    "Here you can see that the lip on the chest is rolled on the AA,just like on TE/GF and sharp on ANH.Also,check out the belly plate,exactly like TE/GF with the larger/raised ribs than on ANH.The rivet covers are missing on AA."


    [​IMG]
    "Here you can see that the AA has the overlaps on the backs of the legs(and arms) and on ANH they are butted together and a separate strip covers the joint.The AA is the same as TE/GF with the overlap and this is the main thing on all replica armour that shows that they were made from ROTJ armour.The ROTJ was made by forming over ANH with the strip left on,resulting in the moulded strip as part of the armour."


    [​IMG]
    "Here you can see that the AA has the overlaps on the backs of the legs(and arms) and on ANH they are butted together and a separate strip covers the joint.The AA is the same as TE/GF with the overlap and this is the main thing on all replica armour that shows that they were made from ROTJ armour.The ROTJ was made by forming over ANH with the strip left on,resulting in the moulded strip as part of the armour."



    All the points were quoted from ANH Troopers original text in the posts. All are very valid points.

    1.With the chest and belt plate comparison. Valid on the Chest lip, rolled over, not sharp cut like ANH. The Ab buttons on the plate are much smaller then AAs.

    Now Rebutle. AA's Belt is missing the rivet dots. This could go to say that they were constructed by AA. TE has the Dots, but AAs doesnt.

    2. The Leg backings. ANH Trooper pointed that they dont have a single shim to overlap the pieces, but that the lip is molded in the armor just like TE/GF.
    Once again, you can see where this could hold positive, but in rebutle, If ROTJ suits were molded from ANH and had the molded lips, where are we to say that AAs aren't from a ROTJ suit?

    3.The knee plate and belt box details. Not much to go with here, to me the pics are just to fuzzy to tell on the originals.


    More to come...
     
  5. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    Those "AA" pics are the proto pics. I already see some differences to the production suit. You should wait for better pics. :)

    Dave
     
  6. NEOGELION

    NEOGELION New Member

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    That is the best I have ever seen as far constructively trying to determine the origins of his suit/products. If all the rest of the posts can stay this clear and without personal feelings/motives coming into play then this thread will be really good. But, I would have to agree that we should have pics of the production suit to make comparisons.
     
  7. Darth Mawr

    Darth Mawr Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    As an 'on the fence' supporter of AA I must say that if AA has original moulds (as some here claim he said) then the prototype armor would be much closer.

    Efforts to bring his armor closer to screen used indicates the need to rework his moulds indicating that the moulds are not original to ANH.

    With this said, had I the money, I would buy his armor. Hey he's the guy who made them originally. I like that. Kinda like buying a car built by Henry Ford's own hands. It may not be identical to his first but hey, he still built this one.
     
  8. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    I wholeheartedly agree. I see people on both sides giving so much overinflated opinion and commentary but a few well made comparison photos would go much further in helping people decide for themselves. I am not much for taking someone's word (sad that it has to be that way but the world is chock full of those who exaggerate, twist, manipulate and outright lie) or even their opinion. I have a brain of my own, thank you very much. I don't need you to tell me. Just show me and I can figure it out for myself. Pictures say it all and while they are not the end all/be all (as we have seen, they can be deceptive) I will take picture "proof" over someone's "expert" opinion any day. We have way too * many experts on both sides who know it all and are completely infallable. Instead of spewing the same old "yes it is" "no it isn't" over and over, I call for more of this kind of argument. Show us the pics and let each decide for himself. Can't wait to see detailed pics of a production suit and will commend, in advance, the brave soul who posts them.
     
  9. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    I agree guys.....whether it's all ANH or from ESB/ROTJ origin......it's still the original guy and that is what sways me towards purchasing it. Not only that but I haven't seen another suit ready to wear for that price. Having the original maker is just icing on the cake. :)

    Dave
     
  10. jeezycreezy

    jeezycreezy Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, please refrain from either endorsing or bashing this armor. You're more than welcome to your opinions of it, but that's not what this thread is meant to achieve.

    This is a hopefully objective investigation and/or search for evidence, not a testimonial.

    Sorry to be a nag, but I'd reeeeally like for an SDS thread to stay on topic for once. Thanks for your cooperation.

    Cheers.
    TJ
     
  11. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    What happened to my post?

    All I said was "cue xmart". In other words, this is a perfect time for him to show some of the photos being requested.
    Did an admin delete my post?

    I have been in communication with xmart and he has said he could provide them for everyone. After what was said in the above posts, I thought now was a perfect time to do so.
     
  12. Got Maul

    Got Maul Official Licensee RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    finally . a trooper thread I could read and is direct to the point .
     
  13. rocketeer25

    rocketeer25 Sr Member

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    I didn't delete your post, Gino, and I don't think anyone else did either. Just keep in mind that TJ is being very specific on the types of posts that he wants in this thread, and that off-topic posts are not welcome.

    This is a very sensitive subject for some people, so I think everyone would be advised to be factual and to the point about the armor.

    Anything construed as being off-topic or disrespectful of another member will be removed and reviewed by the staff.

    Discuss the armor all you want, as long as it is done civily. Disagree with each other until you wear out your keyboards, just do it respectfully.

    In other words... this is a prop forum. Discuss the prop.. :rolleyes

    Lonnie
     
  14. jeezycreezy

    jeezycreezy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Lonnie. Yep. For sure I am clear in what I want: Photographic evidence one way or the other

    And I'd just like to say, believe you me I do NOT want to be the one doing this, but I think it's an hugely important issue, so I stepped up to the plate, put myself in the line of fire, and any other cliche you can think of that's appropriate here. :)

    I agree with Gino. Help us xmart. You're our only hope...

    Cheers.
    TJ
     
  15. greatgarlando

    greatgarlando Well-Known Member

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    The buttons on the ab plate ar diffrent, they look kinda sorta like the push in buttons on the FX. TE,and screen used suits are painted on right?
     
  16. Dark One

    Dark One Well-Known Member

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    I think in a nut shell, all most of us wanted was to see the original molds of helmets and armor. Everyone has their own brain, buy what you want. I love seeing comparison pics. It makes you appreciate what you have, don't have, or what you want, or don't want.
     
  17. Gilmortar

    Gilmortar Sr Member

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    I have some pictures that I did using Clutch's Button allignment pictures from the 22page AA thread. I redid the aligning showing the spacing and such, but I left them on the computer of whoms house I was house sitting all weekend, so I will head over there later and post from there.

    Also, xmart or whomever else has pictures of the AA production suits, if you could be in contact with me, I would just like to see these for comparison purposes. I know a few folks w/ a GF a TE and a GINO suit, so I will shoot to get straight detail,same angles and all, comparison photos for each, and hopefully, if we can find some pics of ANH, that we can go off of for posing so we know what parts we are lookin at, what ridges, what lines, everything.

    And just like TJ said guys, I want to get to the bottom of this. Look at it like the ObiWan Emitter thread, lets work in unison instead of just bashing whoever and whatever.

    No more 22 page armor bashing. To quote Obiwan from ROTS, "How Uncivilized."
    Come on brothers (and sisters). Lets do this.
     
  18. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    Can't atest for the TE suit, but yes, the buttons on the real suits are painted on. Well, let me correct that. They ARE a vacced detail on the ab plate detail and the little strip to the right of the ab detail and then they are painted to make the buttons stand out but each individual button is not seperate.

    From what I can see in the pics above of the AA ab plate detail, it appears that the little ridges to the right of the buttons are too thick and too close together. Does the ab plate detail on the production AA suit look like that as well?

    And since we are doing the whole picture instead of opinions in this thread... here is a picture of a trooper's ab plate detail.


    [attachmentid=4859]
     
  19. RKW

    RKW Sr Member

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    Not too sure why we need comparisons of the SDS armour & TE armour.

    It is perfectly clear from the above posted comparisons of the real ANH & SDS armour that the SDS armour has been copied off a ROTJ suit NOT ANH. The excuse of the SDS pictures being off a prototype suit is ridiculous. There would have to be something fundamentally wrong to have to make so many changes to a prototype to get it to look like an original ANH suit.

    We know SDS had nothing to do with ROTJ so it means that he could only have copied it from one of the following sources:-

    1) TE armour
    2) GF armour
    3) Gino armour
    4) Movie FX armour
    5) Original ROTJ armour

    There are no other ROTJ alternatives so what difference does it make trying to establish which of the first four choices the SDS armour came from? You can just lump them all as one group, fan made recasts.

    I thought the TE, GF & Gino armour were all related anyway?
     
  20. Darth Mawr

    Darth Mawr Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Are the button and horizontal line details on the ab plate supposed to protrude or recess?
     
  21. dirtydave

    dirtydave Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    armor pictures are up on AA's web-page.
     
  22. Gilmortar

    Gilmortar Sr Member

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    protrude, the picture that Braks provided is showing the back side of the ab plate, showing that the ab buttons are vacc'd to the plate and not added on...

    And maybe the suit is from an ROTJ, but we are still looking into all ASPECTS of what it could be.

    Those who know troopers up and down may not need comparisons but even for the "experts" it never hurts to go back and look at the source material again and PROVE it.
    Also by showing comparisons instead of just stating "facts" other members can easily see what we are talking about, because at the end of the day, who am I that you should believe me?
    You shouldn't.

    Don't just have blind faith in me.
    Believe me because you can see what I say for yourself in the pictures I post.
    The point of this whole thread is to show these things not tell people how it is.

    As my pappy used to say,

    "Enough with the Preaching, and get on with the teaching"

    A picture says 1000 words.
     
  23. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    Prob not the greatest two pics ever posted but hopefully these angled shots will show that the lines and the buttons are raised, not recessed.
    [attachmentid=4860] [attachmentid=4861]
     
  24. Gilmortar

    Gilmortar Sr Member

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    I'd like to know if anyone here has purchased the armor yet? Mainly my reasoning is the pictures on the SDS site are too compressed and the angles are exceeding. If someone has purchased the suit, and is willing to take pictures for us, please contact me.
     
  25. Jackie_Chan_Fan

    Jackie_Chan_Fan New Member

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    I just looked at AA's website to check out the pics of the suit. Its a very nice suit but it doesnt look like a real ANH suit. Thats not to say its a bad suit by any means. Overall its looks to be a good suit at a good price from a good guy. I still think AA is a good guy overall despite my doubts about the "original mold" claims.

    I like TE's new suit, it seems to have nice shoulders and so forth. I have a feeling that the AA suit is made sturdier than a TE. SDS's website says its 2.5mm. Thats pretty thick.

    I wonder if it is less detailed looking.

    I just noticed that SDS's Hero helmet is also 2.5mm thick. Wasnt the SDS stunt 1.5mm? (i remember reading so on their page)

    Doesnt changing the thickness so drastically effect the sharpness of the form?

    2.5mm has to be pretty dam sturdy though. I'll give AA credit for that. I'd love to have one of these suits but i simply can not afford one :( AA if you're out there and want to do a good deed for a poor man, please send me one and i'll write an honest review :)

    It is hard to say without having one, but it doesnt look entirely right to me. (better pictures might help bring out that classic trooper look) Anyways, It also isnt that bad. So its a nice purchase i think. Now if i could only afford one. ;)

    Again its hard to say if its better or worse than a TE. The new TE suits look really nice.

    My whole stance on the SDS thing is that I was hoping so much that SDS would bring us drop dead accurate products. I expected to SDS to deliver a product that would just click the old "uhuh, thats the mother f'n real thing baby" switch in my brain. But the helmets proved to be too different in many areas. The flare etc. There are many things right with the SDS helmet but just as many WRONG things about it.

    So again my stance on the whole SDS as of current is that *, i just wish it was the dream come true moment I had been hoping for. Its a disapointment but its not a complete disaster. I mean the products are decent. It's the claims that get my goat. That said i still think AA is a good guy, he's just doing what everyone else has done.

    Hell i thought TE's armor was all original until i learned otherwise. TE's helmets are certainly incredible to say the least (same goes for Gino, Meatsock, and authentic props) They're all drop dead gorgeous helmets that seem to be closer to the originals they were cast from.

    I just wish the dream was a reality but the quest goes on. Atleast we have some nice products out there to enjoy along the way. And nice is subjective. Ultra detail freaks such as myself will certainly be more picky when compairing items (IE: SDS vs TE vs MEATSOCK, vs GINO, vs GF, vs FX, vs RTMOD, vs ORIGINALS)

    But hell, you could do a hell of a lot worse than the SDS armor. So i say to whoever bought it, enjoy it. These wars of details we get into are in the best interest of ALL of us buyers. We just want to full fill that childhood dream to its fullest.

    I just wish we could be nicer about it ;)

    I still find my SDS stunt to be a disapointment in many ways, but at the same time its a good item. Its from AA, its a very low numbered SDS and it's nice and sharp. Sure it has the stupid looking flare, the ears that look half modified, the flat rear tube... stickers...@$.@$. ;) But its still unique. It's just not the dream come true moment we all were hoping for.

    BTW yes the stomach buttons look too big, the ab armor looks too wide, the chest armor's bevel is too round.
     
  26. Supa troop

    Supa troop Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Guys
    It is virtually Impossible to Compare a Screen used Set of Armour to that of the New AA armour using Screen caps from Movies.

    and i shall tell you why.

    I was lucky enough to have a chat with Peter Diamond, and amoungst the many questions i asked hi one was "what were the Original Suits like to wear"

    He told me that every extra in Stormtrooper Armour Himself included altered it, in his exact words

    " we chopped bits off here and we chopped bits off there because they were so * uncomfortable to wear"

    So trying to prove the authenticity of an Item used in a movie 25+ yrs ago to a crisp brand new set of armour made in 2005 armour is just not going to hold any wieght at all
     
  27. exoray

    exoray Master Member

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    That would only account for trimming differences on the edges, molded and formed areas like the middle of the ab plate would have not been altered by the actors...

    The differences posted here so far have zero to due with trimming they are forming differences...

    My question is why if the original suits had formed buttons why does the AA ab plate have press in ones? Why change something so unique?
     
  28. Darth Mawr

    Darth Mawr Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I would propose that it would eliminate the need to paint or at the very least make it possible to paint the buttons with out requiring much skill.

    Anyone can paint the add on buttons so he does not require skilled labor.
     
  29. Gilmortar

    Gilmortar Sr Member

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    Its not that we are comparing to "Screen Captures" its that I want to do poses of Each said suit, in a pose similar to that of movie shots/publicity photos. I am comparing AA to TE/GF/Gino/Etc. to prove/disclaim the opinion that AA/SDS has molded these from original molds.

    "I would propose that it would eliminate the need to paint or at the very least make it possible to paint the buttons with out requiring much skill.

    Anyone can paint the add on buttons so he does not require skilled labor."

    I'm sorry Darth Mawr, I don't understand what you are saying. It might be the fact I haven't eaten all day and I am somewhat incoheirant, but could you explain?
     
  30. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I agree.
    I think we would get much more mileage out of comparing the SDS armor directly to a GF/TE suit.
     
  31. Darth Mawr

    Darth Mawr Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'm sorry, I should have quoted exoray's post before me. He asked why make the buttons add on when the orignal armor's buttons were molded into the ab plate.

    I believe that AA now uses add on buttons on his ab plate so that he can purchase pre colored buttons or at least paint the buttons seperately then add them to the assymbly at a later time. This eliminates the requirement of a skilled artist to paint the buttons or the need to create a mask. Anyone can complete the ab plate with professional results despite their artistic abilities.

    OK....now I'm confusing myself :p .
     
  32. exoray

    exoray Master Member

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    For those the missed these claims there were a cut and paste of AA email to xmart in a previous thread located here...

    Previous Locked Thread

    If you read the first few post you will clearly see that the "original moulds" is referenced a few times even to the point of claims that they are all there...

    Also a very interesting note in this email AA sent out and that has been touched upon in this thread already...

    There was no overlap on the ANH armor that AA built for the movie (to increase,) the halfs butted together and a strip was applied, so this quote alone begs a few questions and raises a few eye brows...
     
  33. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    Ouch, Flynn. That overlap quote isn't good. It certainly does make one wonder.

    In regard to the comparisons, while many are "SURE" the AA suit is a GF/TE recast, I think for the sake of fair play, we should NOT be initially comparing the AA suit to a TE/GF but to a movie suit as that is what it is supposed to be. If we find that it doesn't match up to the movie suits then the question of "what does it match?" can be addressed. I know this may seem like we are playing dumb but I think it would be good to FIRST show whether the AA does or does not match the movie suits as I would think the movie suits are the bar by which all suits are measured.
     
  34. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Braks,
    The problem with that is (correct me if I'm wrong), people on both sides of the fence agree that the SDS doesn't match the originals. Many think it was cast off a TE/GF so don't you think it would be more efficient to make that comparison now and put that controversy to rest since that really is where all the hostility is stemming from?
     
  35. Gilmortar

    Gilmortar Sr Member

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    That is definatley a good point Gino. Mainly the one thing I am pushing to NOT see, is like in the 22pager:

    "You are just saying that cuz you are a 'so-and-so' supporter and want them to make money"

    Its more of the fact that AA/SDS has said, We are using the real original molds to make these suits.

    I want to solidfy or debunk these statements. If AA/SDS is using the real molds, That is awesome. I might get a suit. If they are using molds not from the originals, well, people will say, "I told ya so".
    If they aren't the real molds, and in fact, a recast from other providers suits, then shame on AA/SDS.

    MY quest, is to solidfy or debunk the said comments and prove once and for all what the truth is.

    If in my process I expose the molds are original, so be it. If in my process I expose the molds are not real, so be it. If in my process I expose they are recasts of said suits, so be it. But I'm going to find something one way or another.
     
  36. Art Andrews

    Art Andrews Community Owner Community Staff

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    Guess it depends on whether your goal is to simply try to prove that AA is a recaster or if you want to show the origins of the armor. Like I said, before, perhaps it seems like playing dumb but you never know how instructive it might be to those who are not so seasoned.
     
  37. dcarty

    dcarty Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Frankly I would be curious to see pictures comparing the inside of the armor where the plastic actually hits the molds. This might prove more revealing.

    Regards,

    Dave C
     
  38. GINO

    GINO Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I've not heard anything new from xmart.
    Has anyone gotten a lead on someone with armor willing to take pics?
     
  39. Lear60man

    Lear60man Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    J.T.

    I address you because you are the starter of this thread. The question posed is the claims of the AA suits being from the original molds. I have had three suits total 2 being T.E. one assembled by TE. Some say that some of the components came from other molds. The armor still looks 'right'.

    We are all assuming that the AA came from the same SET of molds. Chest-back could be original, legs from a trimmed down GF, arms TE. The only true comparison would be from an original suit and the AA side by side. Both sets of legs of my TE suits are slightly different due to the construction/trimming.

    This is a great quest. I hope someone could provid some side by side comparisons. If the AA suit has some found (non original molds) components than so be it. If the results are close enough to fool the naked eye then who cares for $1,000??????

    Finaly, 'Original Molds' is a loose term. I wouldn't want anything from the original molds from 1977. Molds warp from usage. Thus the first time you 'reshape' or 'restore' the molds, hey are not 'original'. In the end it comes down to what looks right. The purist will pay for their convictions ($30,000 for an original helmet). I'm happier with a $1,500 suit that if a crack a bicep trooping who cares a can get another one.
    Chris
    p.s. had a couple martinis so excuse the spelling:)
     
  40. Gilmortar

    Gilmortar Sr Member

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    Well first, its TJ...lol...

    Yes, we know the question at hand is if AA is using original molds.

    "I have had three suits total 2 being T.E. one assembled by TE. Some say that some of the components came from other molds. The armor still looks 'right'."

    I don't understand what you are implying. Could you elaborate? Are you saying that a TE suit, is mixed and matched between ANH, ESB, and ROTJ? Yeah, I know. Mines like that.

    "We are all assuming that the AA came from the same SET of molds. Chest-back could be original, legs from a trimmed down GF, arms TE. The only true comparison would be from an original suit and the AA side by side. "

    Yes, I and others are trying to find someone with an AA suit so we can get comparison pics. Now as for "the only true comparison...original suit and the aa side by side."
    True and False. We are comparing to see if the suits are original, and if not from the original molds, then whose they are from. So we need to compare all aspects, original, TE, GF, Gino, ETC.

    "If the AA suit has some found (non original molds) components than so be it. If the results are close enough to fool the naked eye then who cares for $1,000??????"

    I care. I dislike Recasters. And this isnt a Recasting 101 class, so dont tell me that all the other armorers are just recasters, you know what I'm saying. GF and Ginos all have private artistic reproductions parts in the armor. So hence, there are still differences between originals, so if those are still present with AA, thiere is a problem.


    "Finaly, 'Original Molds' is a loose term. I wouldn't want anything from the original molds from 1977. Molds warp from usage. Thus the first time you 'reshape' or 'restore' the molds, hey are not 'original'. In the end it comes down to what looks right."

    If I had the original Stormy chest piece mold, and somewhere in the ages it cracked, If I had glued it back together and reworked and bondoed the seam so its nice and smooth still, ITS STILL ORIGINAL. Original Molds is not a loose term. If AA is using the EXACT SAME ORIGINAL MOLDS that were used to mold the EXACT SAME ORIGINAL SUITS from 1977, 1981, and 1983, then thats what we are talking about, no matter if they were reshaped or reworked.

    Its not my job to devert people from purchasing whatever armor they want. But I feel that it is somewhat my part to AWARE people of the truths of anything about each. Just like people posting shady auctions on ebay. AA/SDS is saying they are using the original molds for their armor. I want to make sure this is true.
     
  41. lambotour

    lambotour Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Great thread and responses so far guys. :thumbsup

    First off, I'm not for or against the whole AA/SDS pro/con argument, but just a curious observer.

    I'm wondering why, for those that don't believe AA and his "original" mold statement, is it so hard to believe that he does have the original molds? I realize through reading this and other threads like it that he has contradicted himself, but could he possibly have lied to cover up the truth (that he has the original molds) for reasons unknown? Perhaps he knew exactly what he was saying and his statements were in fact calculating and meant to confuse. I'm no expert when it comes to trooper armor, but I do see the differences between his earlier prototype armor and the original armor, as I see the likeness between parts of his and TE's etc. I also see the changes he made to his current armor which appear to bring him closer to the original albeit not yet exact. My confusion lies in why would he need to alter anything on the prototype, to bring him closer to the original look, if (as he stated) he's using the original molds? :confused

    I'd love to know the full origin of those molds. However, I do believe there is a possiblity that at least a portion of those molds are the original ones. Considering the recent appearance of those two sandtrooper helmets on Jez's site, anything is possible. Now whether those (helmets) were ahem, "legally" obtained by the owner is a whole other matter. :D
     
  42. Gilmortar

    Gilmortar Sr Member

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    And thats a great point lambotour. That is a really good point actually. Who knows about AA. I mean, yeah, of course he could have put all the contradiction into his statements for that exact purpose. I mean its an intelligent idea.

    And YES, you have a point. On his site it says "Original Makers, Original Molds..."

    Yeah, he could have a few original molds, heck, shoulder bells, handplates. That is truth that he uses original molds. I just wanna know if he has ALL the original molds. There are rumors that they are other parts, and there are rumors that they are all the originals from 1977. I just wanna find out the truth.

    But DEFINATE good point Lambo.
     
  43. Jackie_Chan_Fan

    Jackie_Chan_Fan New Member

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    Yeah thats worst thing that i noticed about sdsprops.com. It says "original molds" all over the place now. More than ever.

    I dont beleive that at all. I would love to, but i simply can not.
     
  44. troopermaster

    troopermaster Well-Known Member

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    'IF' AA has the original moulds then why on earth would he need to make prototypes?

    I know it's hard for most to see the differences and even when shown,some still can't/won't see them.I posted some comparison pics showing how the AA differed from the original LFL suit,but what I really should have done compare how it matches the GF/TE suit.

    Now some people are saying 'well that was the prototype so it doesn't count'.Really,a prototype from a man with the original moulds is ridiculous.I can't provide comparison pics at the moment (photoshop not working) but the AA is so obviously recast from a fan suit it's not funny.

    EVERY part of the AA suit is not 'correct ANH'.I know that from studying these suit's for many years I can spot a movie cast suit,and this AA is just not one of them.Not even a GF/TE or any other suit is a movie cast ANH.They are all someone's interpritation of an ANH suit made from modifying an ROTJ suit.

    If we are going to find a screen accurate ANH suit then TBH,there isn't one.Don't get me wrong,the suit's that are available are very nice,but they are just not as accuarte as the movie suit's.AA's armour is just like the rest of the replicas and share all the same ROTJ traits.If he had the original moulds then they would not be like ROTJ as AA had nothing to do with ROTJ.

    I am looking forward to see some comparisons,but they should be between AA and GF/TE and I wouldn't really bother with a comparison to an LFL suit.


    -Paul.
     
  45. CTF

    CTF Sr Member

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    What's a 'stormrooper'? ;)

    Heh, just kidding.
     
  46. troopermaster

    troopermaster Well-Known Member

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  47. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    Just to reiterate my previous statements, IMO the Stunt Helmet, Hero Helmet and TIE Helmet are from the original moulds. Its my understanding the Armour is NOT from the original moulds.

    Looking at the SDS web-site it says of the Stunt “cast from the original moulds”

    For the Hero it says “These unique collectibles are the only helmets ever produced from the original moulds”

    For the TIE it says “These unique collectibles are the only helmets ever produced from the same moulds”

    However for the Armour it says “Stormtrooper Armour – from the original maker... Our new armour is an accurate replica of the armour we produced in 1976”.

    There is no mention of moulds.

    I have no interest in getting into an argument over what the sources are, as AFAIK the source is still to be determined. However SDS are clearly NOT saying that the armour is from the original moulds.

    Great thread, lets keep it on track.

    Cheers

    Jez
     
  48. exoray

    exoray Master Member

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    Then how do you explain the emails the xmart posted where AA's statements are clearly contridicted? Selective reading or focusing on only part of the information is a poor way to draw factual conclusions...

    Posting one thing on the website and then emailing out a different story to customers, IMO is far from "NOT saying the armour is from the original moulds" he does just that in emails, but because he hasn't posted it on the website, in your opinion he isn't claiming it :confused Seriously it's as plain as day in his email that he claims original molds...

    And if they are not from the original molds there where are they from? Did he happen upon an original ANH suit and recast it? Doubtful, as there are tell tale signs of ROTJ not ANH in his suit... Also if this is the case why do some of his parts from what we can see match the custom sculpts of GF not screen parts? I believe these are the questions that this topic is supposed to address... The conclusion from where I stand (and others) is obvious in regards to many of the parts...
     
  49. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    But Flynn, you keep ignorning that "some" of the moulds MAY be of original origin.......what if he's not putting that statement on the website so as not to mislead folks into thinking ALL the moulds are from '77??? It's just a thought. Why don't you guys ask him personally to just clarify??? He's a really cool fella to correspond with. If you see a contradiction, ask him, he might have an explanation that will make you happy. He has answered every single question to my satisfaction.

    Dave :)
     
  50. Star Wars Helmets

    Star Wars Helmets Sr Member

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    Exoray,

    I donÂ’t know the background to xmarts email and I wouldnÂ’t presume to speculate as to its content or message.

    I was just stating that the word from SDS on their site is that the armour is not from the original moulds.

    Again like I said, I have no interest in getting into arguments about what the source is/are, as there looks to be parts from a number of different sources, ANH and RoJ. Fact is we don't know and thatÂ’s the point to this thread :)

    In the spirit of this thread I was just expressing an opinion in a civil way.

    Cheers

    Jez
     

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