Origins of the AA/SDS Armor

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jeezycreezy

Well-Known Member
If you don't like SDS threads where people try to hold him accountable for his products, then don't read this thread.


Since we can't discuss this in a show off thread l'd like to give this topic a home as was suggested.

I'm very curious as to the source of the molds used to produce SDS's stormtrooper armor. I'm not accusing anyone of anything at this point. It just seems that there is reasonable enough doubt at this point to warrant further investigation.


I'd like to see some close-up pictures of the SDS armor and the TE armor it is allegedly cast from. I think a good visual comparison will pretty much deep-six any and all doubt and, with it, any further debate. It will either look very different or it will look similar. I'd like to know which.

Surely there are enough people here that we could hook up owners of both suits to do some side-by-side comparisons.


It may not be your cup of tea, but some of us do care and some of us do want to know what's going on so please allow us the freedom to do so here without any squabbling or personal attacks. Honestly, I don't want to discuss the discussing of this armor so please keep your posts on topic and productive.


If you want to discuss his helmets, then do it in an other thread unless it pertains to a patten of behavior or is applicable to the armor.

If you can't be civil, don't post here.

If you want to attack me for starting this thread or accuse me of muckraking, fine. But I assure you it won't be productive.

If you think that holding a prop maker accountable and trying to uncover the truth is bashing, then this is not the thread for you. Frankly I find the people who complain about these threads in these threads frustrating as it adds nothing and suggests sadism on the part of the poster.

If you think that Andrew Ainsworth is simply taking back what's his, then you're essentially saying he is a recaster and that that is okay. I don't think it is.

For the record, any reference to the beating of horses won't stop this.


To borrow the opening two sentences from Lemony Snicket's The Bad Beginning
If you are interested in stories with happy endings, you would be better off reading some other book. In this book, not only is there no happy ending, there is no happy beginning and very few happy things in the middle.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

Cheers.
TJ
 

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Gilmortar

Sr Member
Hopefully this will remain civil...

But mainly in the AA/SDS threads, people were posting pics of comparisons, and then it came up:

"well the angles are like 1* off, so its inaccurate"

I'll find the pics that were posted, but there were DEFINATE valid points and rebutles on both sides.
 

Gilmortar

Sr Member
I am also sure that my friend, will probably be more then willing to pose for a fe shots in his TE for comparison.
 

Gilmortar

Sr Member
Alright, here are pics that ANH Trooper outlined that show definative differences between suits...


"Here you can see that the lip on the chest is rolled on the AA,just like on TE/GF and sharp on ANH.Also,check out the belly plate,exactly like TE/GF with the larger/raised ribs than on ANH.The rivet covers are missing on AA."



"Here you can see that the AA has the overlaps on the backs of the legs(and arms) and on ANH they are butted together and a separate strip covers the joint.The AA is the same as TE/GF with the overlap and this is the main thing on all replica armour that shows that they were made from ROTJ armour.The ROTJ was made by forming over ANH with the strip left on,resulting in the moulded strip as part of the armour."



"Here you can see that the AA has the overlaps on the backs of the legs(and arms) and on ANH they are butted together and a separate strip covers the joint.The AA is the same as TE/GF with the overlap and this is the main thing on all replica armour that shows that they were made from ROTJ armour.The ROTJ was made by forming over ANH with the strip left on,resulting in the moulded strip as part of the armour."



All the points were quoted from ANH Troopers original text in the posts. All are very valid points.

1.With the chest and belt plate comparison. Valid on the Chest lip, rolled over, not sharp cut like ANH. The Ab buttons on the plate are much smaller then AAs.

Now Rebutle. AA's Belt is missing the rivet dots. This could go to say that they were constructed by AA. TE has the Dots, but AAs doesnt.

2. The Leg backings. ANH Trooper pointed that they dont have a single shim to overlap the pieces, but that the lip is molded in the armor just like TE/GF.
Once again, you can see where this could hold positive, but in rebutle, If ROTJ suits were molded from ANH and had the molded lips, where are we to say that AAs aren't from a ROTJ suit?

3.The knee plate and belt box details. Not much to go with here, to me the pics are just to fuzzy to tell on the originals.


More to come...
 

vaderdarth

Master Member
Those "AA" pics are the proto pics. I already see some differences to the production suit. You should wait for better pics. :)

Dave
 

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NEOGELION

New Member
That is the best I have ever seen as far constructively trying to determine the origins of his suit/products. If all the rest of the posts can stay this clear and without personal feelings/motives coming into play then this thread will be really good. But, I would have to agree that we should have pics of the production suit to make comparisons.
 

Darth Mawr

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
As an 'on the fence' supporter of AA I must say that if AA has original moulds (as some here claim he said) then the prototype armor would be much closer.

Efforts to bring his armor closer to screen used indicates the need to rework his moulds indicating that the moulds are not original to ANH.

With this said, had I the money, I would buy his armor. Hey he's the guy who made them originally. I like that. Kinda like buying a car built by Henry Ford's own hands. It may not be identical to his first but hey, he still built this one.
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
Originally posted by NEOGELION@Nov 7 2005, 05:50 PM
That is the best I have ever seen as far constructively trying to determine the origins of his suit/products. If all the rest of the posts can stay this clear and without personal feelings/motives coming into play then this thread will be really good. But, I would have to agree that we should have pics of the production suit to make comparisons.
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I wholeheartedly agree. I see people on both sides giving so much overinflated opinion and commentary but a few well made comparison photos would go much further in helping people decide for themselves. I am not much for taking someone's word (sad that it has to be that way but the world is chock full of those who exaggerate, twist, manipulate and outright lie) or even their opinion. I have a brain of my own, thank you very much. I don't need you to tell me. Just show me and I can figure it out for myself. Pictures say it all and while they are not the end all/be all (as we have seen, they can be deceptive) I will take picture "proof" over someone's "expert" opinion any day. We have way too damn many experts on both sides who know it all and are completely infallable. Instead of spewing the same old "yes it is" "no it isn't" over and over, I call for more of this kind of argument. Show us the pics and let each decide for himself. Can't wait to see detailed pics of a production suit and will commend, in advance, the brave soul who posts them.
 

vaderdarth

Master Member
I agree guys.....whether it's all ANH or from ESB/ROTJ origin......it's still the original guy and that is what sways me towards purchasing it. Not only that but I haven't seen another suit ready to wear for that price. Having the original maker is just icing on the cake. :)

Dave
 

jeezycreezy

Well-Known Member
With all due respect, please refrain from either endorsing or bashing this armor. You're more than welcome to your opinions of it, but that's not what this thread is meant to achieve.

This is a hopefully objective investigation and/or search for evidence, not a testimonial.

Sorry to be a nag, but I'd reeeeally like for an SDS thread to stay on topic for once. Thanks for your cooperation.

Cheers.
TJ
 

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GINO

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
What happened to my post?

All I said was "cue xmart". In other words, this is a perfect time for him to show some of the photos being requested.
Did an admin delete my post?

I have been in communication with xmart and he has said he could provide them for everyone. After what was said in the above posts, I thought now was a perfect time to do so.
 

rocketeer25

Sr Member
Originally posted by GINO@Nov 7 2005, 04:07 PM
What happened to my post?

All I said was "cue xmart". In other words, this is a perfect time for him to show some of the photos being requested.
Did an admin delete my post?

I have been in communication with xmart and he has said he could provide them for everyone. After what was said in the above posts, I thought now was a perfect time to do so.
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I didn't delete your post, Gino, and I don't think anyone else did either. Just keep in mind that TJ is being very specific on the types of posts that he wants in this thread, and that off-topic posts are not welcome.

This is a very sensitive subject for some people, so I think everyone would be advised to be factual and to the point about the armor.

Anything construed as being off-topic or disrespectful of another member will be removed and reviewed by the staff.

Discuss the armor all you want, as long as it is done civily. Disagree with each other until you wear out your keyboards, just do it respectfully.

In other words... this is a prop forum. Discuss the prop.. :rolleyes

Lonnie
 

jeezycreezy

Well-Known Member
Thanks Lonnie. Yep. For sure I am clear in what I want: Photographic evidence one way or the other

And I'd just like to say, believe you me I do NOT want to be the one doing this, but I think it's an hugely important issue, so I stepped up to the plate, put myself in the line of fire, and any other cliche you can think of that's appropriate here. :)

I agree with Gino. Help us xmart. You're our only hope...

Cheers.
TJ
 

greatgarlando

Well-Known Member
The buttons on the ab plate ar diffrent, they look kinda sorta like the push in buttons on the FX. TE,and screen used suits are painted on right?
 

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Dark One

Well-Known Member
I think in a nut shell, all most of us wanted was to see the original molds of helmets and armor. Everyone has their own brain, buy what you want. I love seeing comparison pics. It makes you appreciate what you have, don't have, or what you want, or don't want.
 

Gilmortar

Sr Member
I have some pictures that I did using Clutch's Button allignment pictures from the 22page AA thread. I redid the aligning showing the spacing and such, but I left them on the computer of whoms house I was house sitting all weekend, so I will head over there later and post from there.

Also, xmart or whomever else has pictures of the AA production suits, if you could be in contact with me, I would just like to see these for comparison purposes. I know a few folks w/ a GF a TE and a GINO suit, so I will shoot to get straight detail,same angles and all, comparison photos for each, and hopefully, if we can find some pics of ANH, that we can go off of for posing so we know what parts we are lookin at, what ridges, what lines, everything.

And just like TJ said guys, I want to get to the bottom of this. Look at it like the ObiWan Emitter thread, lets work in unison instead of just bashing whoever and whatever.

No more 22 page armor bashing. To quote Obiwan from ROTS, "How Uncivilized."
Come on brothers (and sisters). Lets do this.
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
Originally posted by greatgarlando@Nov 7 2005, 09:43 PM
The buttons on the ab plate ar diffrent, they look kinda sorta like the push in buttons on the FX. TE,and screen used suits are painted on right?
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Can't atest for the TE suit, but yes, the buttons on the real suits are painted on. Well, let me correct that. They ARE a vacced detail on the ab plate detail and the little strip to the right of the ab detail and then they are painted to make the buttons stand out but each individual button is not seperate.

From what I can see in the pics above of the AA ab plate detail, it appears that the little ridges to the right of the buttons are too thick and too close together. Does the ab plate detail on the production AA suit look like that as well?

And since we are doing the whole picture instead of opinions in this thread... here is a picture of a trooper's ab plate detail.


[attachmentid=4859]
 

RKW

Sr Member
Not too sure why we need comparisons of the SDS armour & TE armour.

It is perfectly clear from the above posted comparisons of the real ANH & SDS armour that the SDS armour has been copied off a ROTJ suit NOT ANH. The excuse of the SDS pictures being off a prototype suit is ridiculous. There would have to be something fundamentally wrong to have to make so many changes to a prototype to get it to look like an original ANH suit.

We know SDS had nothing to do with ROTJ so it means that he could only have copied it from one of the following sources:-

1) TE armour
2) GF armour
3) Gino armour
4) Movie FX armour
5) Original ROTJ armour

There are no other ROTJ alternatives so what difference does it make trying to establish which of the first four choices the SDS armour came from? You can just lump them all as one group, fan made recasts.

I thought the TE, GF & Gino armour were all related anyway?
 

Darth Mawr

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Are the button and horizontal line details on the ab plate supposed to protrude or recess?
 

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