Original ILM Studio Scale X-Wings-How many? (Archive please)

Discussion in 'Studio Scale Models' started by PHArchivist, Nov 30, 2002.

  1. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    I can account for:

    Red 1--SW Tech Journal
    Red 2--Best of LFL Arcvhives
    Red 3--Art of SW
    Red 5--MIA

    Was there a Red 4 built by ILM?

    Were there any others by ILM?



    Mods, this is a repeat from the SSM Forum. Delete if you must, but I posted here due to traffic. The SSMF is pretty stagnant these days.
     
  2. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    Hello...?
     
  3. rockbottom

    rockbottom Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I read in another thread about someone in Japan having an original Red 5. Anyone know what I am talking about?
     
  4. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    Raised my eyebrows too...
     
  5. robstyle

    robstyle Sr Member

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    Have you tried posting this in the modeling forum?
     
  6. arkangel

    arkangel Well-Known Member

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    BobaFlint would probably know. Good luck. [​IMG]
     
  7. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    robstyle wrote:
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    Have you tried posting this in the modeling forum?

    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    Yeah... But a tumbleweed blew by me while over there... [​IMG]

    Also, I should specify: I'm asking about the 1/24 scale models...
     
  8. Darth Blyad

    Darth Blyad New Member

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    I remember reading that at the end of filming, all they had left was one Y wing and two X wings. The final shot of them flying away from the death star is all the models they had left - they'd blown everything else up.
     
  9. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    Darth Blyad wrote:
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    I remember reading that at the end of filming, all they had left was one Y wing and two W wings. The final shot of them flying away from the death star is all the models they had left - they'd blown everything else up.
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    Which may explain why the Best of LFL Archives bok only shows the two 1/24 models.


    Were any new 1/24 X's built for ESB or ROTJ?
     
  10. aliensarchive

    aliensarchive Well-Known Member

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  11. Boba Flint

    Boba Flint Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That's not a studio prop. That X-Wing looks like one of the AMT models. The turkeyfeathers on the engines are not right, but they match up with the AMT kit. There is glass in the canopy and there are details on the back that are just not right. It has Red 3 markings and I can tell you that is not the paint job that Red 3 has.
     
  12. PaulF2000

    PaulF2000 Well-Known Member

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    That X-Wing was restored and the model maker made a few changes to the paint job as per the instructions of the original owner.

    Also it came from an active ILM model maker. The canopy is correct as well, they put some glass canopies on for display. It's just taped inside the frame and was for display purposes during the ILM Japanese prop tour.

    You can pick that one apart until you are blue in the face, but it's as real as they get and I wish I had had the money when it was up for sale.



    Paul
     
  13. TomSpinaDesigns

    TomSpinaDesigns Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    cool info Paul.... is this the same guy/people who's/who've got an original Cantina alien? (still holdin my breath for some pics [​IMG] )

    tom
     
  14. aliensarchive

    aliensarchive Well-Known Member

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  15. TomSpinaDesigns

    TomSpinaDesigns Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    oh mamma! ok, i'm officially really REALLY jealous right now !

    [​IMG]


    Paul, please do LMK if you took some better pics of this one when u were there!

    tom
     
  16. PaulF2000

    PaulF2000 Well-Known Member

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    I do have better pics and the awesome thing about that mask is it's signed by Rick Baker on the acrylic base.

    I played with it a little and it's still very durable after all these years.

    But I doubt I will post any photos.

    Paul
     
  17. Boba Flint

    Boba Flint Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Its not nit picking, its pointing out obvious flaws. Ifit is a restoration then it is a poor one. The very definition of restoration is to make it look like it originally did. Not add things that were not there or change the paint scheme. The only X-Wing ILM added a 'glass' canopy to was the 6 ft. X-Wing that was made just for ROTJ. Just because it may have come from an ILM model maker does not make it a studio used model. Again that X-Wing has three stripes on the wings implying that it was the same Red # from the movie. It is not. That is not the Red 3 that is a the LFL archives.
     
  18. aliensarchive

    aliensarchive Well-Known Member

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    Nice analysis.
     
  19. PaulF2000

    PaulF2000 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry double post!
     
  20. PaulF2000

    PaulF2000 Well-Known Member

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    You know guys I really don't care to argue over something that's not even mine.

    Anyway S.G.and J.E. both wrote letters and say it authentic and that all anyone needs. The originator also wrote a nice letter as well, what more do you want?

    It's always the nitpickers and self proclaimed experts that know everything, not the model makers or original artists. [​IMG]

    Oh yeah that original R.B. mask is really a Don Post he passed off as his own work. [​IMG]



    Paul
     
  21. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    One of my questions in this thread was, "What about Red 4?"

    In reviewing old threads in the Studio Scale Forum, it was mentioned that on Page 42 of the first Industrial Light & Magic book (by Thomas G Smith), Lucas is standing near a Red 4 model. Same pic is also in the LFL Archives book, preface page VIII.

    Sure enough--he is...

    Any more insight to this?

    Any more shots of this model?
     
  22. Boba Flint

    Boba Flint Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    PaulF2000 wrote:
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    You know guys I really don't care to argue over something that's not even mine

    Paul
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    And yet you keep posting......
     
  23. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    Just reviewed the credits of ANH...

    Red 4 was credited, as was Red 6 (Porkins)...

    So...

    What did Red 4 and Red 6 look like?
     
  24. Rocketbobs

    Rocketbobs Well-Known Member

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    Here is a picture of Red 4-or whats left of him...This wing is in Bob Burn's basement.
    [​IMG]
     
  25. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    Chaucer44 wrote:
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    They looked ALOT like this:
    [​IMG]

    Yours,
    Cris
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    HA HA HA!! VERY FUNNY!! (Actually, it was!) [​IMG]
     
  26. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Rocketbobs wrote:
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    Here is a picture of Red 4-or whats left of him...This wing is in Bob Burn's basement.
    [​IMG]
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    THAT is very cool!
     
  27. Miniaturizer Ray

    Miniaturizer Ray Well-Known Member

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    "In reviewing old threads in the Studio Scale Forum, it was mentioned that on Page 42 of the first Industrial Light & Magic book (by Thomas G Smith), Lucas is standing near a Red 4 model".

    Indeed. It's my belief that the "Red Four" model seen in the picture:

    [​IMG]

    is in fact the original Red Five model from STAR WARS:

    [​IMG]

    With the exception of the miniatures which appear only very briefly before being blown up (and John Knoll's CGI hybrids, which - in my book at least - don't really count), you've already listed all of the models which actually appear on screen in STAR WARS.
     
  28. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    I lean towards agreeing, MR... THe weathering on both those birds lok a LOT alike...

    What sacle is that one? Next to Big G, it loks BIGGER than 1/24...
     
  29. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    Do you suppose there are no surviving Red 6 models as it was a pyro only perhaps?
     
  30. Miniaturizer Ray

    Miniaturizer Ray Well-Known Member

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    It's the same size as the other STAR WARS X-Wings that you've seen. It's not really next to Mr Lucas, it's on a desk in front of him. The picture was taken with quite a wide angle lens, which exagerates the perspective somewhat. Whether or not it's 1/24 is a matter for debate. Chronicles says the models were 1/16. The pilots were cast from 1/24 figures, but the astromech droids aren't 1/24th of the size of the full size Artoos. Personally, since there aren't any real X-Wings, and the full size mockup(s) weren't exactly the same as the miniatures, I don't think that assigning an exact figure to the scale really matters.

    The hero/pyro dichotomy is a bit too simple, I think. Chronicles (which can't be trusted) tells us that nine models were constructed for explosions, and five models were lighted. As you probably already know, the concensus is that the left/right fuselage "kits" were created because the top/bottom fuselage models didn't explode in a satisfactory manner. Presumably, they must have blown up at least one top/bottom model to determine this. Does that account for one or more of the nine, or were there nine "pyro kit" models, five lighted models plus extra top/bottom pyro models, or are Chronicles's figures completely wrong? Additionally, some of the models which we see blown up in STAR WARS are very simple constructions, unlike the "pyro kit" models which seem more or less identical to the "hero" models.

    ILM built at least one model with six wing stripes and at least one model with four wing stripes; you can see them in the picture at the bottom of page 111 of Chronicles. This picture also shows two Red One models, and a Red Three model which doesn't appear to be the same as the one in Art of Star Wars.
     
  31. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Miniaturizer Ray wrote:
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    It's the same size as the other STAR WARS X-Wings that you've seen. It's not really next to Mr Lucas, it's on a desk in front of him. The picture was taken with quite a wide angle lens, which exagerates the perspective somewhat.
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

    Makes sense...

    <TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Whether or not it's 1/24 is a matter for debate. Chronicles says the models were 1/16. The pilots were cast from 1/24 figures, but the astromech droids aren't 1/24th of the size of the full size Artoos. Personally, since there aren't any real X-Wings, and the full size mockup(s) weren't exactly the same as the miniatures, I don't think that assigning an exact figure to the scale really matters.
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

    Agreed, particlularly since it is in fact a fictional ship. I refer to 1/24 as the commonly-accepted size of the Icons/CC "Studio Scale". Very interesting discussion, nonetheless, on the derivation of scale of these models!

    <TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    The hero/pyro dichotomy is a bit too simple, I think. Chronicles (which can't be trusted) tells us that nine models were constructed for explosions, and five models were lighted. As you probably already know, the concensus is that the left/right fuselage "kits" were created because the top/bottom fuselage models didn't explode in a satisfactory manner. Presumably, they must have blown up at least one top/bottom model to determine this. Does that account for one or more of the nine, or were there nine "pyro kit" models, five lighted models plus extra top/bottom pyro models, or are Chronicles's figures completely wrong? Additionally, some of the models which we see blown up in STAR WARS are very simple constructions, unlike the "pyro kit" models which seem more or less identical to the "hero" models.
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

    A couple very intriguing (albeit not very "telling") shots come from my first and favorite behind-the-scenes publication, "The Star Wars Album", published by Ballantine Books way back in November, 1977. One shot shows the parts of a side-to-side fuselage kit... Another shot shows no less than 7 X's lined on a table with who appears to be Grant McCune standing near the table. Not "telling", however, in that there is no visual reference to the type of models they are (Pyro versus Hero), and no visible wing pips/stripes.

    <TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    ILM built at least one model with six wing stripes and at least one model with four wing stripes; you can see them in the picture at the bottom of page 111 of Chronicles.
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

    Due to the sheer size of that * book, it is buried right now, and I'm too tired to dig it out! [​IMG]

    <TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    ...and a Red Three model which doesn't appear to be the same as the one in Art of Star Wars.
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    Yes! Along those same lines, what is the deal with the larger scale X in the MoM tour? Looks very much like Luke's, but has three wing pips (stripes?), and does NOT maintain the same weathering/coloring scheme as the "traditiomnal" Red 3...!
     
  32. Miniaturizer Ray

    Miniaturizer Ray Well-Known Member

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    The picture I'm talking about shows the same seven models as the picture you're talking about (I have that one somewhere, too. On the Behind the Magic CD, maybe?). The front one is Red Three, but it's weathered very differently from the Art of Star Wars picture. The large model seems to have been constructed for use in RETURN OF THE JEDI, although I don't know if it actually appears in the movie. Maybe it was built for the unused sandstorm sequence at the beginning? This model does show up in the Special Edition of STAR WARS : Some of the panels on the sides are used in the photomontage textures on the CGI X-Wings.

    One last tidbit that I've come across: There is, apparently, a Japanese edition of Starlog magazine that has some pictures of X-Wing models, including a Red Six model which has a yellow canopy. This is just something that I've read about, mind, not seen for myself, so I don't know whether these were actually original STAR WARS miniatures or not.
     
  33. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    I let this thread slide for a couple of weeks...

    Thanks again Ray for the insight...

    Any more history/info/insight on the ole' X-Wing before this thread slides into oblivion...?

    Or is it worth archiving?
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  34. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    Mods, can we acrchive this?
     
  35. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    I asked over two weeks ago to have this archived... Can we, please?


    2/12/02: Request 3
     
  36. autoprops713

    autoprops713 Well-Known Member

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    Can't they just drop this into Studio Scale? I'd like to keep this around also and add more in the upcoming week.

    Dave
     
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  37. yodaman

    yodaman Sr Member

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    archived
     
  38. darthsg

    darthsg New Member

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    Yes there was. Here it is. 18111181_1473656972709535_1276814396_o.jpg 18111180_1473657012709531_428737206_o.jpg 18111300_1473656992709533_1658460944_o.jpg 18111182_1473656976042868_2102194811_o.jpg
     
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  39. Jm419

    Jm419 Sr Member

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    Wow, thanks for posting those. This blows the hell out of any Red 4 reference I had.

    Also, Holy Zombie Thread, Batman!
     
  40. bigpetr

    bigpetr Member

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    Thank you for this great reference photos. Much appreciated.
     
  41. moffeaton

    moffeaton Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    You guys really should get the new Japanese Chronicles book - all those pics and more are in there.
     
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  42. Jkirkon

    Jkirkon Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Jason, I may do that as an early birthday present to myself
     
  43. Studio Kitbash

    Studio Kitbash Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Don't know if this helps, but for the original Star Wars (1977, later called Episode IV) there were 14 X-Wing models built, though I have no idea how many were "pyros" and how many were not. I would guess about 50/50, but that's pure speculation. Here's the "proof" of the number 14 claim:
    --------------------------------
    Q. How many different "miniatures" were built for Star Wars?
    A. According to Grant McCune, chief model maker on Star Wars, there were 24 different types of miniatures designed. These included space vehicles, such as the X-Wing Fighters (14 models), Y-Wing Fighters (8 models), and TIE Fighters (20 models); surface vehicles such as the Jawa's Sand Crawler (1 model), and Luke's Landspeeder (2 models), and detailed sections of the Death Star such as the trench, the target area, gun towers, and the docking bay.
    The scale on the models ranged from 1:8 (on the Lifepod and Lifepod Bay) to 1:16 for most of the space vehicles to an incredible 1:180,000 for the Death Star (making a full-size Death Star 102+ miles in diameter)

    - Bantha Tracks #6, Autumn 1979
     
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  44. moffeaton

    moffeaton Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I have seen photographic evidence of:

    1. Blue 1, Red 2 Hero
    2. Red 1 Hero
    3. Red 3 Hero
    4. Red 5 Hero

    Pyros:
    5. Red 1
    6. Red 3
    7. Red 4
    8. Red 5
    9. Red 6
    10. Red 10
    11. Red 12
    12. Red 1 body with Red 3 wings
    13. Red ? - seemingly unpainted bird with a blue stripe (?) running down the top of the fuselage from cockpit to nose (you can see it at the very very back in the famous ILM "line up" photo that made the Topps card). Note it has a red colored cannon body, so maybe this is 6, 10, or 12 mid-paint? Perhaps that blue line is the seam that's been filled?

    Screen Shot 2018-01-29 at 2.30.40 PM.png

    Which leaves:
    14. ??

    Also keep in mind, Red 6,10, and even 12 seem to share wing cannons and other elements - it's all a bit murky still as to which came first and when, which is in line with various accounts of ILM reusing/recycling intact detonated pieces.

    Also, one of them was smashed to bits according to the story of Dykstra slamming one on a table to show it's breakaway-ability!
     
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  45. kk1

    kk1 Member

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    I always thought the one on the table was this one, since the yellow markings and canon match it also has that dark streak along the bottom, though I'm not sure which one this is since you can't see the wing markings Red 10? And even though the table ship isn't painted you can see the tape on the wing where it's masked for the stripes (looks to be masked off for 5 stripes?) castcolorpr52028229unfloppedunskewed-1.jpg

    As for the 14th, were there 2 Red 6's as the markings on this one don't seem to match the one from the video
    Cinefantastic51.jpg

    Another shot of the table ship, ever think this might be where your mystery astromech is from?
    swi-142-pg20 copy.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  46. moffeaton

    moffeaton Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yes, it's Red 10! Awesome. As far as everything else, we won't know until pics surface... I love a good mystery!
     

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