OB1 ANH Saber - PARTS LIST

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by Romans Empire, Oct 30, 2005.

  1. Romans Empire

    Romans Empire Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Since we finally know where everything comes from maybe we can put a simple “shopping” list together. I’m sure it would come in handy for treasure hunters.

    - Emitter - Rolls Royce Derwent engine balance pipe
    - Upper Grips - British No.3 Mk1 Rifle Grenade - produced in the 1910Â’s
    - Clamp - Graflex flashgun unit - produced in the 1930Â’s
    - Calc Bubbles - Texas Instruments: Exactra 19, 20, 2000 (European model) - produced in the 1970Â’s
    - Transistors & washers - unknown brand
    - Lower Grips (Gear) - Browning ANM2 machine gun booster
    - Pommel - Armitage Shanks Sink Knob: Starlite model - produced in the 1960Â’s
    - D-ring - 3/4"

    I can update this 1st post as more info comes in. :)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2008
  2. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Browning ANM2 machine gun booster
    Rolls Royce Derwent engine balance pipe

    Are you sure the 'sink knob' was called Starlite (the modern ones are) and is from the 60's and not 70's?

     
  3. Dewy

    Dewy Well-Known Member

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    Are we still calling it a gear?

    And I've also heard it called the starlite several times from the late 60's early 70's, I'm by no means anything close to an expert though, more of a spectator.

    Edit- Just wanted to add I know its not really a gear but what's another appropriate name for it? Lower grip...? Piece between clamp and sink knob?
     
  4. Darth Lars

    Darth Lars Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I would say "cooling fins" or "heat sink", because I assume that was the vision of the man who put it together, and it is also precisely what it is in real life.

    Before getting into the prop/replica community, I always referred to the fins on the Luke and Vader sabers as be cooling fins, not as "grips". :p
    These cooling fins are located in the same area as on those sabers, and btw. it also looks like Anakin AOTC "saber grip" material was used to build the cooling fins on the Obi-Wan ROTS saber.
     
  5. Romans Empire

    Romans Empire Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well, that's what the people at Armitage Shanks told me one day while I was placing an order for the modern ones. I sent them pictures of what I was looking for and they got back to me stating 'that's our Starlite model from the 60's, but it's been out of production for quite sometime'. I'm just going by what they told me. :)
     
  6. Romans Empire

    Romans Empire Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    When answering emails from people not familiar with the saber I'd describe that section as "lower grips".
     
  7. Sporak

    Sporak Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

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    Aye, but it'll always be the gear to me ;)
     
  8. Probe Droid

    Probe Droid Master Member

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    I'm not a newbie and I appreciate the list. Thanks, Roman. :thumbsup
     
  9. Nexus6

    Nexus6 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I created this collage after the last 2 parts were found. I updated the labels today.

    I plan to keep it folded up in my wallet, in case I happen to stumble upon any of these parts one day...

    [​IMG]
     
  10. amish

    amish Sr Member

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    Nexus, that is great... Worth printing and framing even.
     
  11. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    Roman,
    that is a sweet collage......best one yet. Thanks for doing that. It summarizes everything nicely.

    Dave :)
     
  12. Rabittooth

    Rabittooth Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone done a replica yet with all original correct parts? I've been dying to see a 100% accurate replica since all the parts were discovered.
    Anyone planning on doing this? Serafino?

    I really want to see the ULTIMATE Obi ANH saber replica.

    :D


    -Rabittooth
     
  13. acerocket

    acerocket Well-Known Member

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    Transitors and washer(s). I don't know the exact model names or numbers off hand, but we need those on the list as well. We also need the d-ring for this saber . I am not an expert on this particular saber so I will let those with more knowledge answer as to the correct info on these items.
    I'm with Rabittooth, I look forward to seeing the first saber made with all the original parts since the movie prop was made.
     
  14. Romans Empire

    Romans Empire Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Great, I hope it comes in useful. :D

    I agree, that is very nice, Nexus6. Maybe I can use that or something like it on my site. I need to update my parts list over there anyhow.

    D-ring, transistors & washers. Check.

    I believe the correct size d-ring is a 3/4". That's not the actual size, but that's how you would find them at a hardware store. The ID is slightly over 3/4", with an OD slightly over 1".
     
  15. QuartZ

    QuartZ Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I just want to know where to get replicas of all the parts that are accurate. For instance, who's doing a run of emitters, who's got the most accurate grenade, is the heat since being replicated by anyone, and does a metal starlite handwheel replica exist?

    I'm so out of the loop.
     
  16. Nexus6

    Nexus6 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It's there if you want it, bro.
     
  17. Sumatra

    Sumatra Sr Member

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    Not a real grenade, but Serafino posted one here:

    http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...dpost&p=1100123
     
  18. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    Accurate parts are going to be available soon. Some with just the normal level of accuracy forced by the discovery of the new pieces, and others which will really attempt to satisfy those who have a more refined eye.

    Obee1's cast handwheels may yet take off.

    Roman's machined aluminum one-piece run is coming.

    A pricey and very limited quantity run of highly accurate multi-part handwheels in stainless will probably still be showing up soon.

    Based on what I know, plus the usual behavior of some people who will probably have a booster in hand soon, I think there are 4 runs of 'gears' being seriously considered right now.

    I am working with someone who has access to very low-cost high quality offshore machining on a run of extremely accurate emitters.

    I will be working with this same person on a run of hyper-accurate grenades, so that will be dealt with once and for all. It's really a shame that instead of improving on the Chen grenade the runs since then have regressed in accuracy and quality. It sets the hobby back when inaccurate parts are made, bought, and celebrated.
     
  19. Darth Lars

    Darth Lars Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I hope you let these people know what the other ones are doing to avoid them doing almost exactly the same thing at the same time ... like in a few cases on the board recently. :unsure
     
  20. Sporak

    Sporak Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

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    Serafino,
    I am anxiously anticipating your emitter run. As I said before once upon a time...if you're in charge I KNOW it'll be right...
     
  21. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    So will there finally be a machined grenade with an accurate neck? (curved base)
    I'd like to see the stamped lettering as well.

    Those two factors have always kept me away from machined grenades and happy with my cast from an original one. The machined ones just never "feel" right to me.

    It's unfortunate with all these new parts it seems we may all be starting from scratch again.
    Not even existing clamp spacers will work with a full new booster.
     
  22. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    Curved base? That's an interesting issue. That feature varies quite a bit. I'll have to check and see whether Chen's are less radiused there than any historical ones. As I recall it's hard to tell exactly how radiused the prop is--it seems to be rather at the low end of the scale at any rate. The grenades at the Inert-ord private pages are a good example of the differences.

    It would be very helpful if we could get a higher-resolution version of the pic of the grenade with the "mystery emitter candidate" part.

    As for the lettering, an extremely faded, almost not there stamping would be fun to do, but it is a very expensive option. Personally I don't think the stamping has enough sure presence in the photos to warrant the high additional costs.

    But we'll look into that, and I'll take another look at the photos.

    As for the booster, if you hold out for a super-accurate, or a real handwheel, you'll want the fully accurate booster anyway and could then just cut down your clamp spacer to fit the booster flange. If you just want an accurate 'gear' to replace one on a threaded rod saber, well I'm sure there will be a suitable option available.

    If I were doing a run of boosters I'd want to make such a version available. *cough cough* Hrrm, excuse me.
     
  23. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    I remember discussion about the radiused base of the neck not being possible on replicas. I didn't read anything about it not being correct. Checking some grenade examples I see now this is a variation (one that is difficult to check on the real prop). I do think the pic from the Cinema of George Lucas looks like the neck base is radiused.
    The stamped text seems more obscured by dark weathering than faint, but I can see most people not wanting this on a replica grenade.

    Do we know the ring of holes part of the booster was used? I see from Franz Bolo's pics that this piece is removable. Since it fits in the Graflex clamp I guess it seems likely.

    I guess I can always do two sabers once I get that last gear I ordered ;)
     
  24. Killdozer

    Killdozer Active Member

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    Not being possible? Weird.

    But a run of grenades and emitters? whee.

    I, too, would like to see the stamped lettering on the windvane.

    When you say "dark weathering" Chris, do you mean the overall paint (?) job on the grenade and the emitter? I know there's still some debate on the actual colour, which could be explored now that the real obi cloak has surfaced. Is there a consensus on how completely painted the stem and emitter are onscreen?

    KD
     
  25. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    Strongly radiused corners shouldn't be a problem if the machining is done with CNC.

    I don't think 'weathering' could hide even the faintest stamping to the degree it's 'hidden' on the prop. I'd like to see a grenade example which shows this. From what I've seen the metal discolors but the stamping remains visible to whatever degree. We have seen fairly faint stamping but nothing where a few letters barely show at all. The prop grenade is in a very good state of preservation (although its apparent darkness in the Lucas book is a clue otherwise, it is clearly not heavily eaten by corrosion as all 'dug' grenades are).

    KD--I don't think there's a consensus. I think paint is likely, I'm sure some would argue it's not. It is interesting that the grenade pictured in the Lucas book is very dark, that is strong evidence against painting.
     
  26. amish

    amish Sr Member

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    OK, so who will be doing a run of complete accurate saber replicas? That is the question on mind :)

    Sorry for going off topic. I am not familiar at all with the differences between the grenades and find this very interesting.

    Thanks everyone.

    Tom
     
  27. Killdozer

    Killdozer Active Member

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    I guess I assumed that real grenades had the stamp and that it was a propmaker's obligation to intentionally obfuscate trademarks and manufacturer's labels, as on the MPP, Graflex, Eumig and Kalimar parts.

    Whether that's with paint, putty, tape, scratching, I don't know.

    And darkness is evidence against painting? How so? I['ve never seen a collector's windvane that wasn't brassy. The "Lucas" photo is very flat, while the "Chronicles" photos are very satiny, IMO. Wear? brass black, bluing or otherwise not paint? I'm curious to hear opinions.

    KD
     
  28. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    Amish--I doubt there would be enough support for a super-accurate full saber run, it would cost too much and there are too many parts out there which most people consider 'good enough' or whatever.

    KD--Some real grenades have no stamp. I think the jury's out on whether they covered the Graflex logo during ANH.

    Darkness is evidence against painting in that it removes the reason for painting. Since one must theorize the simplest explanations, dark grenade=less likely they painted it to make it look dark.

    I agree all published grenade vanes show brass--but the one in the Lucas book looks black. Then again it shows what looks like an area of chipped-away paint--maybe it was already painted?

    The Chronicles photos show shiny, but they also show mottled steel on the frag body so I'm inclined to allow for lighting regarding the differences.

    The vane and stem are SO black that it's hard to ascribe the color to brass black or similar, but the stem bottom is so velvety that it's hard to ascribe that to paint. To me the vane has always looked a bit like it was painted, and the frag body just like it was either naturally very dark, or had once been painted and lost most of its paint (the black 'mottling', a long shot but possible--in pattern the wear is not entirely dissimilar to the wear of the paint on the stunts.)

    I tend consider this issue too vague to resolve, and an area for personal interpretation to reign until we get more information.

     
  29. Reel Fakes

    Reel Fakes Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  30. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    It's not news, that was the first site referenced regarding these grenades, and the difference in types overall is just one of paint color. Mr. Lynn himself told me this. :)

    There are probably more differences between various 'standard' grenades than between the smaller numbers of 'drill' versions and the 'standards'.

    The apparent darkness of the 'standard' grenade is due to lighting/photography. I have seen clearer pictures of that one and it's just a steel color--which means the original paint job has worn off.
     
  31. Reel Fakes

    Reel Fakes Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I figured as much...oh well - it was worth a shot. :)
     
  32. JHVanOphem

    JHVanOphem Well-Known Member

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    The other thing to keep in mind is did the prop maker use a real, de-milled, grenade or was it a dummy prop grenade to begin with.

    A prop grenade wouldn't necessarily have to be 100% exact to a real one afterall.
     
  33. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    I just can't see them making detailed replicas of a WWI rifle grenade to use in a movie. The prop clearly has many small details of a real one--the detonator safety pin holes, the threaded stem and most importantly the very-difficult-to-machine windvane. Given the wide variety of parts Bapty drew from, and the steady supply of these grenades we've seen since, I think it's much more plausible that they used a real one.
     
  34. Sporak

    Sporak Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

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    From what I can see in those pics the drill grenade seems to have the ridge on the vane, while the standard doesn't...

    Mine is a standard Mark I it seems... exact but without the ridge on the vane.

    Incidently...On mine you 'could' read parts of the words on the vane, but I colored it with brass black and now I can't find a trace...for what it's worth.
     
  35. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    But it's important not to allow this myth to build up that the physical shape of drill grenades was different from the standard ones. It comes up every six months or so.

    In the details, there is no such thing as a 'standard' Mk I. :)

    I'd LOVE to see before and after pictures of the stamped lettering disappearing Sporak, if you can dig them up, very useful that would be.
     
  36. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    I disagree. As you noted the windvane appears very dark in the prop photos. In fact it's even darker than the frag body. The stamping is actually clear in the one highlight area. On an object that dark and dull I would not expect to see the lettering visible in the shadow areas. The letters aren't that big, deep, or sharp to catch highlights. Only the vertical of the "L" in Graflex is visible in the shadows and that's shiny metal (deeper letters too).

    As you said though it would be costly to add and not everyone would want it.
    It's an accuracy issue not all agree on (real world lettering on SW props).
     
  37. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The specific brand of transistors were identified a while back. I don't have the info, but someone must have it saved. There's a big "N" on them.
     
  38. Romans Empire

    Romans Empire Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That's a big NEGATIVE.

    Mine is being made in pieces. It's already rolling. :D
     
  39. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    That thread is still up I believe.

    Chris--all I ask is to see examples of stamping so faint that it would work the way you speak of. The Graflex lettering shows SOME even in the shadow areas, whereas the stamping on the vane sleeve is an arguable vague 'something' even in the highlight area.

    As you all know by now, I'm perfectly content to be proven wrong given a strong enough argument. :)
     
  40. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    Well I'll be horngoggled Roman. :lol

    All we gotta do is for enough people to yell loud enough I guess... ;) I look forward to seeing them.
     
  41. Sporak

    Sporak Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

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    Is there a better website with close up references? I agree there are a bunch of variances there...

    Ok, I do have some shots before I did anything to it...hopefully some of that shows up...I'll see what I can find...but I remember seeing the word Cotton on it and that was about all I could make out...now of course we know the rest of the lettering...but I didn't...


     
  42. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    When were the transistors discovered?
    I didn't see anything on this. Search revealed nothing.

    As far as the windvane lettering. High res pics show a pretty clear "O" in the highlight on the transistor side and hints of letters to either side.
    The lower part of the "L" in Graflex disappears completely in shadow and that part is silver. It's not hard to see how smaller, shallower letters would disappear on a part that is basically flat black.

    The Mechanismo pic seems to show a clear letter in the highlight, but unfortunately no one has that original source image here.
     
  43. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Transistor research thread was...man, IIRC it was five years ago. Sheesh, time flies in the prop world.
     
  44. Serafino

    Serafino Sr Member

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    But then there was the whole thread that led to the decals. The recent thread wasn't about discovery, just a rehash of the issue. If there was a thread 5 years ago (the RPF??) that identified the correct transistors then this hobby is pathetic. :lol

    Anyway here's the recent thread FWIW:

    http://www.rpf.invisionzone.com/index.php?...2&hl=transistor
     
  45. Gytheran

    Gytheran Sr Member

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    No, we never(as far as I remember) identified the exact model of transistors used. We only found "close" look-a-likes, but never with any markings as seen by refference material.
     
  46. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    Both threads, the old and new one never resulted in identifying the transistors.
    There was JD Pilot's "best guess" decals to dress up some that were the right shape and size but that was it.
    So the transistors and washers are the last Obi-Wan saber mysteries.
     
  47. victory201

    victory201 Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I have three grenades -- Chen's original, another original and a cast. Chen's original has no lettering in the wind vane. The other original is hard to read -- it looks like ROBOTE & AMMONAL Ltd LONDON. The cast grenade reads "cotton powder."

    Thanks to Wacky Chimp, I am adding two pictures.

    It seems to me that if these were wartime production, there probably were several manufacturers, each adding their own touch and their name of the wind vane. If so, we may never be able to pinpoint the precise manufacturer unless we get a detailed pic of the wind vane on the real prop.

    I hope this helps move the ball -- I am gratful to everyone for their outstanding detective work in identifying pieces.

    DJ

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    P.S. The first pic center, that windvane looks white, optical illusion, I haven't cleaned that part out yet. ;)
     
  48. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Ah, I see. I guess they identified the manufacturer based on the "N" but not the particular model. Thanks, folks.
     
  49. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    The manufacturer isn't even known.
    NEC was just a guess. I don't think that's their logo on there.
     
  50. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Really? I recall pretty convincing comparison pics.

    I'd better start over:

    I know absolutely nothing about the transistors.

    :lol
     

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