Nike Mag Replica V3 Modding/Customization/Power Laces
- Thread starter Nzfly
- Start date
Sorry, I have had monthly meetings that have kept me away from playing with this. I like the structure you are building. The path of the laces appears straight across when viewed from the top, and the actual retraction path is angled backwards. Part of my redesign was to provide plenty of clearance inside the tracks to accommodate this "trajectory shift" (probably not the best description). I see in your later post where you are advocating for the rounding of the edges, and I think that is savvy. If you are going to eliminate the elastic bands, then I can see how they would definitely benefit from the rounded edges.
I had another method I played around in my mind with. And truth be told, it is in process as a viable method in alternate to my other design. I have a friend who is ate up in the brain stem about airplanes. I asked him about the smallest Bowden cables (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowden_cable), and he has yet to get back to me with an answer. I will get some cables once I absolutely have the smallest available identified.
If you are not familiar, they are essentially a cable within a cable used for control linkages. They are specifically designed to transmit mechanical action/force despite bends and turns in the cabling. They are also designed NOT TO FAIL
There is an over engineering that often accompanies airplane parts because failing comes with consequences. My thought was the laces could be attached to a common bar, just like what was shown in the Nike patent at the bottom before the treads engaging with the motor. A Bowden cable could link to that common bar and be fed down into the sole. Imagine a tube in the sole that has a two ring magnets within attraction range. One is fixed at one end of the tube and the other is secured to the end of the Bowden cable. If there was a retractable catch which would retain the cable magnet, if that catch was released, the magnets would attract and the force would transmit through the cabling to the laces. The selling point here is only two magnets period. In fact, the Bowden cables could also interact with the ankle strap, but you would lose the sequence visual present in the movie. I think I have a drawing which can help the visualization of this. I offer that idea because your design has me wondering what is the mechanism that sets the assembly in motion? My guess is you are pushing down on one of the laces and it then snaps down. I have a commitment to maintaining the visual aesthetics of the movie. So, for me at the maximum, the hands can be on the cuffs of the shoes when the laces actuate.
One more thought. If you play with the magnets, consider what the repulsion vs. attraction is like when you have two attracting magnets' track in between two magnets whose poles are at 90 degrees. I don't know if I am describing it well so how about this...(too lazy to draw it and upload;-)
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(the formatting wont let me center the top and bottom between the two side ones)
In this diagram there are four magnets, one at the top, bottom, and two on either side. The top and bottom magnets represent the lace track magnets. The two on either side are "sideways" to the top and bottom's poles. I haven't made this, but I believe this would result in a squirting effect as the top magnet passed between the two side magnets. If this idea is correct, then you can extend the distance of the attraction for the top and bottom magnets. Whatever mechanical force is used to move the top magnet past the center line of the side magnets will become amplified by the repulsion range, and then the attraction range could take hold at the conclusion of that. I imagine you could get some serious distances that are well beyond what is needed for the system to work. This method might be more desirable for the ankle strap as I have revised my thinking that I need to affect 3" of tightening. I am now thinking I want twice that to have a real good visual.
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(the formatting wont let me center the top and bottom between the two side ones)
In this diagram there are four magnets, one at the top, bottom, and two on either side. The top and bottom magnets represent the lace track magnets. The two on either side are "sideways" to the top and bottom's poles. I haven't made this, but I believe this would result in a squirting effect as the top magnet passed between the two side magnets. If this idea is correct, then you can extend the distance of the attraction for the top and bottom magnets. Whatever mechanical force is used to move the top magnet past the center line of the side magnets will become amplified by the repulsion range, and then the attraction range could take hold at the conclusion of that. I imagine you could get some serious distances that are well beyond what is needed for the system to work. This method might be more desirable for the ankle strap as I have revised my thinking that I need to affect 3" of tightening. I am now thinking I want twice that to have a real good visual.
cavx
Master Member
Exactly. I am keeping this as simple as I can. These magnets (yes you would need to identify N and S sides) are strong, like they will slide off each other, but you'd be hard pressed to physically pull them apart.
So my design is all slide. In the OPEN phase, the magnets hold the laces in position at the top. You push down on the mechanism, sliding it off the magnet. It then free falls to the 2nd magnet which is the CLOSED position. In essence, the laces should "snap" closed. Just like we see in the movie.
To open, grab the laces and pull up until the catch on the 1st magnet again.
The magnets would have to be recessed into both plastic parts. If I get time later today, I will redraw this with the cutouts.
cavx
Master Member
I'll make it even simpler.
NN OPEN magnets
SS Strap Magnets
NN CLOSED magnets
N = north S = south
In the OPEN position, the magnets attract.
Slide them off the and push down.
The magnets attract an hold in the CLOSED position.
I understand what you mean. In fact, I experienced some of that problem when playing with your idea for the ankle strap. My conclusion was a magnet connection must be perpendicular to the direction of release. Meaning, they are strongest when trying to pull them straight apart, and they are weakest when scraped apart.
I do not believe delrin can be used for a strap based upon my buckle study. It is great for the housing a strap would enclose, but too stiff for an actual strap.
cavx
Master Member
funny - I can near instantly read this and understand what the set up is
Good. Simplicity is often the best way
Having a think and will two magnets even be necessary? The magnets I have take effort to get them off a metal surface. So I wonder if the magnets in the laces are really needed and a thin metal plate could work there?
cavx
Master Member
WOW you're all over this like flys at the food of a BBQ. I'm impressed.
So you took out the one strap thing on side, do you need the other? I should image that removing that part makes the strap slide easier. If both were removed, the strap would tighten even more. By the looks of this, you have gained the with of the buckle. If that other side is taken out, you gain the inside of the strap.
You will have to attach the buckle to the shoe like the 1989 movie shoe, the 2011 official release and the 2016 rep all are.
This really awesome that a couple of guys (on the opposite sides of the world) who can think outside the square could come up with something this fast.
Good. Simplicity is often the best way
Having a think and will two magnets even be necessary? The magnets I have take effort to get them off a metal surface. So I wonder if the magnets in the laces are really needed and a thin metal plate could work there?
Really depends on the magnets. That KJ magnets site has great data on pull strength. I have questioned what is the total pull lbs needed to keep the straps in place. I am in the 5-15 lbs range. I know for certain the 15 isn't coming off. I believe two points of contact at 5 would probably be sufficient. The strength of the magnetic attraction to the metal is significantly affected by the metal piece's thickness and surface area.
Thanks man. That is one of the HC buckles. I cut the loop bars off of both sides. I cut a bit more than a slit out of the side the strap is emerging from. I used a dremel to remove quite a bit of the material from the main area and embedded/glued a magnet into the buckle. I laid down a sheet of delrin encasing the magent. I attached the magnet to the end of the strap and cut a sheet that would span across the top of the buckle to sandwich where the strap would slide. I realized that because the magnets (and the rigidity of the delrin) sheering side to side, this was not an idea set up as it sat, so I did not attach the sandwiching sheet. Those little bar magnets I have attached are probably better for the set up because the polarity is on their long thin edges. So when separating the pull would be perpendicular to the magnet's attraction.
It was clear though, 3" was not dramatic enough of movement. Needs 6 " which would be something more like your design where the ends overlap each other.
This internet thing is pretty good at bringing people together to share ideas. kek
cavx
Master Member
OK lets stick with the idea of magnets on both parts for now. The last thing you want is to click clack as the magnets detach and reattach just from walking.
One of my flexible cast buckles had that hollow all the way through like a like a channel had been cut through the back. A bit of PITA but not hard to mod the master and make a new mold as it is only the rear section anyway.
cavx
Master Member
This is the FX pair (at least the shoe on this right foot is). I don't seem to have images of the Hero Pair which shoes have the different splatter.
Attachments
God, I want those sock toes! Seriously, we need to find the material from the presto and do it up. I think it would require the lace mechanism be on the instep of the shoe because of the lack of structure. But, those look so comfortable. I would not want to wear another shoe.
cavx
Master Member
I know right? And everyone else on the MAG forums seems to hate them except @airair who showed the world how toe slims should be done when he did the world's first pair sock toes on a pair of V2s. Sure they don't sit like a bullet nose on the shelf, but on your feet, are so comfortable.
I did mine by simply removing the inner bonding fabric. I'd like to do this to a pair of V3s some day.
Exactly, like the EARL, you would need at least the arch area under the foot to be rigid with the MLS (Magnetic Lace System) attached. The upper would have to be build over that.
DragonGalvy
Sr Member
I never said I hated MAG's with sock toes. Just never did get around to doing it on any of mine. (only a steam-toe).
I plan to try toe slim/sock toe on my newest pair of V2's at some point, just haven't got round to it.
I've owned a pair of Presto's when they originally came out many years ago. The stock, round laces really bite your foot because the body of the shoe has such little structure in it. The rest of the shoe was pretty comfy. (Got around that problem by swapping out with fat, flat laces, so the elastic of even a V3 width would be fine)
Would love to see if a pair of V3's could be sock-toed - the toebox is annoyingly stiff.
The magnets ideas you guys have are very cool and would never fail like pesky mechanical things do.
Oh yeah, if you really wanted a sock-toe shoe to sit properly on a shelf, just pop some of those cardboard things for the toe that come in Jordans. I always throw them away. But I had to sacrifice Jordans for V3's this year
I plan to try toe slim/sock toe on my newest pair of V2's at some point, just haven't got round to it.
I've owned a pair of Presto's when they originally came out many years ago. The stock, round laces really bite your foot because the body of the shoe has such little structure in it. The rest of the shoe was pretty comfy. (Got around that problem by swapping out with fat, flat laces, so the elastic of even a V3 width would be fine)
Would love to see if a pair of V3's could be sock-toed - the toebox is annoyingly stiff.
The magnets ideas you guys have are very cool and would never fail like pesky mechanical things do.
Oh yeah, if you really wanted a sock-toe shoe to sit properly on a shelf, just pop some of those cardboard things for the toe that come in Jordans. I always throw them away. But I had to sacrifice Jordans for V3's this year
cavx
Master Member
I wasn't aiming that at anyone in particular. I have tagged airair because he did the first or them. I have done 3 pair now and so I feel confident that I can make this work on V3s even though they do have different materials and construction. Getting the toe separated is the part I am not sure about on these.
Yeah I think a non electric version will be faster, more secure and less likely to fail. Would be awesome if it were possible to add lights, but at this stage, I just want to see laces snap down like in the movie.
DragonGalvy
Sr Member
It's cool, just putting it out there that sock toes are good - I've got a bunch of Nike Roshes which all have that. It is comfy, and might make the shoes feel less hot in summer.
Hmm..... motivation to sock-toe my V2's right there (I remember how hot they were wearing them around Xmas in central QLD when they were first released, lol)
If you can get a prototype of the 'snap-to-fit elastic laces working in a $20 Kmart shoe (which is what I'd be trying as an experiment if I was doing this) that would be awesome. Then you could move on to the MAGs.
Hmm..... motivation to sock-toe my V2's right there (I remember how hot they were wearing them around Xmas in central QLD when they were first released, lol)
If you can get a prototype of the 'snap-to-fit elastic laces working in a $20 Kmart shoe (which is what I'd be trying as an experiment if I was doing this) that would be awesome. Then you could move on to the MAGs.
