Nike Mag Replica V3 Modding/Customization/Power Laces

Nzfly

Active Member
What follows is meant to add to others' thoughts and creativity while tackling modifying their V3 Nike Mag replicas. I wholly and completely understand others will have their own way of accomplishing their goals. There is no representation that these ideas are better/worse than any other.

Soles:
I have bought the materials necessary to make my own UV stable soles. This includes the replacement sole materials urethane and colorant, and it includes the silicone, silicone mold release, vacuum chamber, pump, clay...you name it. I still lack a pressure chamber for ensuring the urethane will end up completely air bubble free. I hope to obtain a pressure chamber from WizardBTTF. I decided to dive in to this project for the satisfaction of making my own soles, learning new skills, and potentially having new ways to provide fun activities to the individuals with developmental disabilities my agency supports. I would encourage everyone interested to check out WizardBTTF's project run for UV stable soles: http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=268590

I did not like the idea of walking around wearing yellowed soles. That would just be opposite of the attractiveness of the Mag design. There has been lots of discussion in the V2/V3 thread about how yellow are the soles when leaving the factory. I have to believe the background affects the perception of "yellowing", though it is clear (he he he) they will yellow in time. The factory QC pics showing yellow soles are a camera issue. Just toggling the "saturation" setting on my phone, I was able to generate the same "yellowing" effect. My latest pair appears yellow in the QC but they are completely clear in person. There is an imperfection I will point out that reassures me they are the same pair from my QC pictures. My V3 soles look like this after about two months of exposure to the elements.

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These are sitting on a white sheet of delrin, and note the effect on the color.

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Removing the soles was not exactly fun for me. I followed cavx and used a craft stick/tongue depressor to pry back the edges, and used radiant heat from a heat gun to soften the factory glue bond. My advice to someone removing theirs is go slow, take breaks, don't over heat the area you are working in. Separating the soles will take a significant amount of time, so there is little point in heating the whole sole, stick to only heating the spot you are working on. I also used a putty knife that had a wooden handle. I found I could heat the putty knife and use the heat of the knife to cut through the glue bond. This had the added advantage of not getting the heat gun near the sole, but it also took significantly longer...It is a bit of a choose your own adventure I suppose. You will be able to spot where I started getting impatient if you look closely at the midsole:)

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I have little concern for the condition of the midsole. McNitt Freesole can literally be used to build a new sole. I will build out the missing material, and dremel them smooth before replacing the soles. Here is a shot of the imperfection in my newest pair. It will be interesting to see exactly what causes this bulge when I remove the soles.

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Materials:

I have been consumed with the amazing materials that are available. I had no clue much of this stuff even existed. My thinking has been gravitating towards some seriously technologically advanced materials being incorporated into my modifications. The movie presented what were advanced materials for the time (EL panels or the electrocromic film on the ends of the footwear bag <-- You HEAR me cavx...ya I am talking to you, sir!;-). There is part of me that wants my efforts to mirror that same acknowledgment of truly creating futuristic shoes. What follows are not comprehensive by any stretch of the imagination!

QTC Pills aka Quantum Tunneling Composite - These are the black strips of squares in the picture that follows. They are some cooooool jobbies! Basically, they are the realization of theoretical quantum mechanics. When pressure is applied, the material's resistance is lowered, and electricity can flow with little impedance. This same material has a brilliant application originating out of MIT as a coating for batteries. The coating will protect small children who ingest batteries as the stomach and gut would lack the needed pressure to allow current to flow. I am thinking they can serve as a "pulse" on/off switch for providing the current to the Nitinol wires. The QTC is soft and squishy, so if embedded in the cuff it is unlikely to be distinctly felt. This is a vanity issue for me; I like the idea that the material itself is responsive to the input commands. Click buttons do not have the same sex appeal, though I will still likely use button switches to override circuits.

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Ni/Cu/Co Fabric Tape - Shown in the top of the picture is this conductive fabric tape. It has excellent conductivity, it is strong as hell, and is .0005 inches thick...um, yeah, I will have me some of that. Check out the lessemf.com website (http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html#225) for even more materials. Be forewarned, the shipping is stupid, and resulted in me sourcing the same materials from alternate vendors who didn't try to rape on the fees. I see this tape in the same light of the "dollhouse wire". It is flat, low resistance, and likely more durable than a comparable copper wire. I believe it can be insulated with velostat, or through simple fingernail polish.

Velostat - This is not too dissimilar from the QTC material, except it feels like a hefty bag. It is a sheeting that is conductive when pressure is applied. It can serve as a pressure sensor, or it can be used as an insulator for the wires. For example, a velostat sensor could be under the insole and thereby sense when you have put the shoes on. For as long as you are wearing them the circuit will be "on". Removing the shoe will turn the shoes "off". I haven't settled my mind on the electrical components of the strap, but I can see a circuit separated by velostat that becomes complete through the pressure applied by a neodymium magnet. Thus, when the strap tightens, and is held in place with the magnets, the velostat will be squeezed. It would then allow current to the strap light mechanism. I am not too keen on the EL panels, as I would like to be able to select the colors. The RGB LEDs all appear to be thicker than what I would want the strap to be (conjure up an image of a skinny snake having just eaten a big rat). If anyone has knowledge of a suitable, flat, material that would allow color selection, I would be very grateful!

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Giron - Before I get into the neodymium magnets, let me introduce giron magnetic shielding material. This stuff is sick! It is receptive to magnets, but it shields the magnetic field. I am not aware of anything that will severe a magnetic field, but this stuff will alter the field on whatever side of the field it is placed. So, a magnet with 12 lbs. of pull force will stick like glue to the giron, but on the other side of the giron there will be near zero magnetic field! It is crazy. Not only are there some unique pull force considerations possible by the giron, it also may be essential to keeping your foot from attracting metal objects if the shoes incorporate these strong magnets. The giron will also shield potential magnetic interference with the electronics (I believe the distances are sufficient to not be a real concern, but I think using it for the added protection is easy enough). This stuff has the feel of stiff sheet-metal.

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Neodymium magnets N52 - Here is just some of the versions/sizes I have been playing with. They are all in the 1 lbs. to 15 lbs. pull force range (pull force case 1). They are comically strong, and will shatter if you get careless. They are brittle. If you are interested, poke around on KJ Magnetics' website (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=168). The strength of these things will shock you. Note the differences in pull force ratings case 1 vs. case 2. It is a curios thing how the strength of the magnet, depending on the attributes of the magnet, when sandwiched between two pieces of steel. I would have thought the strongest pull force would be present between two magnets...but that just isn't the case. Going back to the giron, it is light enough to be embedded in the end of a strap and still result in a strong connection provided case 2 is how the materials are setup. You can see in the picture how I have started playing with lace connections. I super glued the magnet to the lace, and then I encased it with thermomorph. That crap ain't separating without being heated past 150 F. The thermomorph also protects the brittle magnets. Through operator error, I would use significant caution if the magnet thickness is less than 1/8th inch, but with the thermomorph they are durable.

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This following picture shows the distance where if moved any closer will result in the magents attracting. Pretty substantial distance!!

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And, here is a picture showing how far the elastic will stretch and the magnet pull force will be maintained. It will stretch the elastic near double before overcoming the force. There are some considerations here about attraction range vs. pull force, but that will need to be a later post.

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I will have to add to this post with the additional items a bit later on. Daddy duty calls.
 
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Good post. Lots on interesting ideas there.

I had a play with a strap/buckle on my display pair last night and my idea or feeding the strap end into and behind the buckle might actually work. The strap moved in and out quite well. The strap will need to be lengthened and made from the same material right to the tip. Combined with some small Neo Magnets and this could be cool. The only question is do I need a sleeve for the strap to run through behind the buckle? Not hard to make a flat, flexible part that is glued top and bottom.

As for mounting the magnets, they could be encapsulated in rubber as a part of the strap. This would eliminate the "shatter" factor that have because now they would be coated in a shock absorbing material.
 
Good post. Lots on interesting ideas there.

I had a play with a strap/buckle on my display pair last night and my idea or feeding the strap end into and behind the buckle might actually work. The strap moved in and out quite well. The strap will need to be lengthened and made from the same material right to the tip. Combined with some small Neo Magnets and this could be cool. The only question is do I need a sleeve for the strap to run through behind the buckle? Not hard to make a flat, flexible part that is glued top and bottom.

As for mounting the magnets, they could be encapsulated in rubber as a part of the strap. This would eliminate the "shatter" factor that have because now they would be coated in a shock absorbing material.


Thanks man. Probably have a metric ton of more stuff that can be added. I also have some stretchy vegan leather. It is thin and has plenty of stretch. I figure for my sizing, the ankle strap needs to be 12 inches long when loose and 9 inches when tight. That would have a movie equivalent retraction. I really want my buckle space for controller boards and/or batteries. I am considering a rather strong magnet (approx. 15 lbs case 1) embedded in the ankle material so that it was opposite of the buckle strap connection. Then a smaller disk magnet (say 1/2" diameter and 1/16 or 1/32 thick) was backed with giron in the 9" length position of the ankle strap, then the attraction distance of the magnets would still be reasonably wide (approximately 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" depending on the magnet specs). There would be sufficient hold so that once engaged you wouldn't need to worry about it coming loose while wearing them. Because a good amount of the tightening distance, 3", is affected by the magnet attraction, the strap need only have an internal structure that would hold the strap in the stretched position until it became desirable to lace the shoes. This internal structure is likely a flat Nitinol spring .75mm thick. 4 Amps or less will cause a 1 second contraction of the Nitinol spanning more than 3" when it only needs half that distance for the magnets to take over and complete the job. These. Magnets. Move. Fast.

Such a method keeps all of the hardware, less a magnet in the ankle of the upper, confined in the strap, and leaves the entirety of the buckle for gadgets like Bluetooth, ambient light sensors, sound boards, fax machine or food hydrater...

I will post up some pictures later that will show what I mean.

ETA - You can buy the N52 magnets coated in a protective rubber. I believe thermomorph is the way to go because you can use the thermomorph to attach and simply reheat to remove.
 
Embedding magnets into the cast of the buckle should be fairly straight forward. Would you really need magnets in/on the strap? What about 0.6mm galv steel?
 
Having a small lightweight magnet in the strap adds to the range the magnet will pull. In my mind, it reduces the load on the Nitinol, and dramatically achieves movie tightening speeds. The steel would attract, but the pull distance will be reduced. By how much will it be reduced? I would have to play with the materials. Straight giron was maybe half the distance I was getting from two magnets attracting one another.

Playing with my buckles and some strap material had me not wanting the material having to enter the buckle. Now, I wasn't feeding a significant length into the buckle so that might eliminate the point I am about to make. The buckle edges plus the squared strap edge caused occasional alignment problems. The magnets are strong, but the strap could still hang up and not rest right. I found that when a disk magnet was on the inside of the upper just forward of the buckle strap connection the mechanics seemed to become reliable.

Your idea of embedding the magnets in the buckle does have an advantage of potentially making the strap/buckle a standalone mechanism whereas mine has adding the magnet inside the ankle lining.
 
Playing with my buckles and some strap material had me not wanting the material having to enter the buckle. Now, I wasn't feeding a significant length into the buckle so that might eliminate the point I am about to make. The buckle edges plus the squared strap edge caused occasional alignment problems. The magnets are strong, but the strap could still hang up and not rest right. I found that when a disk magnet was on the inside of the upper just forward of the buckle strap connection the mechanics seemed to become reliable.

I was thinking of the strap not ever exiting the buckle. In the film, we do see the ends because that pair is the "hero" pair. The FX shoe is different to that one and I identified that by the spatter on the mid-sole.

I will take photos later tonight to show what I am on about.
 
OK here is simple my idea is. As I said, maybe it works, maybe it won't. Just know that you have to make custom straps, where I am using the original to show the idea.

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OPEN.

As I said, you would have to make a longer strap and the part that inserts needs to be fairly rigid. This is why I am thinking the 1.6mm or 2.0mm polyprop. It will flex, but has a good plastic's memory, so will want to return the original shape (which is flat). If the end of the strap had small holes that glued the magnets into, a metal plate could be added to the inside of the buckle to allow the magnets to slide along. You really only need 3, one at the end when full open, so the strap does not come out and the other in the 2 in place where the strap is "tight". This allows a little movement, but keeps the strap in place. You could coat these magnets in plastic to hide them and ensure they never fall out.

If I do a mock of this, I will also get the main laces cut from the same plastic so it all matched.
 

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OK here is simple my idea is. As I said, maybe it works, maybe it won't. Just know that you have to make custom straps, where I am using the original to show the idea.

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OPEN.

As I said, you would have to make a longer strap and the part that inserts needs to be fairly rigid. This is why I am thinking the 1.6mm or 2.0mm polyprop. It will flex, but has a good plastic's memory, so will want to return the original shape (which is flat). If the end of the strap had small holes that glued the magnets into, a metal plate could be added to the inside of the buckle to allow the magnets to slide along. You really only need 3, one at the end when full open, so the strap does not come out and the other in the 2 in place where the strap is "tight". This allows a little movement, but keeps the strap in place. You could coat these magnets in plastic to hide them and ensure they never fall out.

If I do a mock of this, I will also get the main laces cut from the same plastic so it all matched.

I am liking the smell of what you are cooking! A couple suggestions based on things I have also found. Delrin is one of the lowest friction materials available. It is used to prolong the life of moving parts. It is available in a plethora of thicknesses/sizes. Here is a pic of one of the sheets I have:

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I don't recall off hand what thickness it is but I want to say it was .013". It is very slippery.

When studying the Nike patents they provide a drawling of a housing to reduce the friction of the straps. Here is the patent drawing of the housing:

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I have not gotten to the posting of how I will approach the lacing system in conjunction with modifying an insole to house the mechanics. I will get there though, time is not on my side these days. But, I see value in using a similar style of housing for the lace system which utilizes delrin. Your thoughts have me considering a derin ankle strap housing that is incorporated into the buckle or sandwiched between the ankle upper material and the buckle material. It is thin enough to be low bulk. Cloneprops' shapeways buckles have quite a bit of space to them, so I may be able to get my electronics or batteries placed despite the strap mechanism feeding through it too. I don't recall the overall length of the buckle but I would imagine it could house the 3" of slack material to make the movie visual. A Nitinol spring on the magnet side would enable the strap tightening to be initiated from the pressure switch, and bring the strap into range of the pull force of the magnet. If the giron was the metal instead of the galvanized steel, you have the added benefits of shielding your electric parts. Your method would save embedding the magnet in the upper as I mentioned before.

It also overcomes the rigidity of a spring resisting the stretch force of my stretchy vegan leather. It also exchanges the pricey mcpricey custom flat Nitinol spring for a standard cheap Nitinol spring. Damn, I like it.

On the other front. Here is my pump and chamber. It is a two stage, 7 cfm, and the chamber is 5 gallons:

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Nitinol - This is electroactive shape memory metal. It is made from dreams and starlight. There are a couple different compositions of the alloys, and each have their pro and cons. The Kellogg's Research Labs FAQ (https://www.kelloggsresearchlabs.com/FAQ) will provide far better specifics than I will provide. The reactivity of the alloys depends on multiple factors, but here is what I believe are essential.

It is not suitable for retention strength. Meaning, the elastic straps are stronger than the springs, so you cannot simply add a spring as a chain link which would have sufficient strength to hold the shoes on your foot. The contraction of the spring, aka the return to its "set" shape, cannot be constant. Some of the springs have greater than 1 lbs. of pull force, but it occurs through heating the alloy past a predetermined temperature. Constant heat will ruin the shape memory properties. The thinner/smaller the wire, the faster it heats, and thus the more dramatic the return to the set shape. A .75mm "standard temperature" spring, stretched from 1" in length to about 8" in length into a cup of 140F water will contract back to the 1" set shape near instantly. Similarly, electrical current can affect the same actuation speeds provided approximately 4 amps can be provided for one second. I have not tested the reduction in actuation time through heat shrinking the Nitinol, but Kellogg's assured me the needed amperage could be substantially reduced from the heat shrink.

Here are some spring sizes, note the "stretched" quality of some of the springs:

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The Nitinol is *supposed* to not be stressed beyond 5% of its length/distance. Exceeding 5%, will result in the stretched quality of the spring. That is now the spring's set shape. The good news is it always returns to this shape even when stressed well beyond the 5%. The larger of the coil springs is the .75mm which can extend up to 8", and you can see how an 800% stress made the coils a bit more loose. This undesirable effect has little consequence because the spring's will still actuate well within the distance needed for the magnets to attract one another.

This image shows the distance the coil will stretch. The stressed set shape of this same spring is shown in the previous image:

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The Nitinol is not magnetic. The stretched springs will easily support the weight of a magnet, and overcome gravity pulling it within range of the retaining magnet. I don't recall off hand the thickness of this wire, but it is one of the smallest, and it means the amperage requirements are way less than the .75mm.
 
The true benefits of forums like this to allow people from around the world to share ideas and hopefully something viable can be created.

I just want to keep this away from electric motors if possible.

If you look at NIKE patent, any wonder the mech is slow. It pulls a flexible toothed belt down and the under the drive cog in a small trench. That in itself must add to the strain the motor is already under. If I was design this with a motor, I'd have a slightly more rigid toothed belt passing over the cog but under a plate that the is under the foot.

Is that plastic like a teflon? Different plastics will have different brand names around the world. Yes, flexible and slippery is what you want. You want to reduce friction as much as possible without the need to lube the system.
 
The true benefits of forums like this to allow people from around the world to share ideas and hopefully something viable can be created.

I just want to keep this away from electric motors if possible.

If you look at NIKE patent, any wonder the mech is slow. It pulls a flexible toothed belt down and the under the drive cog in a small trench. That in itself must add to the strain the motor is already under. If I was design this with a motor, I'd have a slightly more rigid toothed belt passing over the cog but under a plate that the is under the foot.

Is that plastic like a teflon? Different plastics will have different brand names around the world. Yes, flexible and slippery is what you want. You want to reduce friction as much as possible without the need to lube the system.

I could not agree more! I have a real hunter/gatherer mentality when it comes to learning. It usually takes a couple beats before I start making conclusions and pairing alternate ideas with solutions. I am not going to be making these things for someone else, so this information is better when available to others than it is sitting around in my head.

I do not believe that motors are the solution for power laces. There are too many points for potential failure. They also wreak of old technology. If I am going to have what a Japanese friend of mine calls "high-tech shoes" then by golly I am gonna have Super High-tech Future Shoes!

I offered the Nike patent only for the sidewall piece where the laces feed through. There is friction in the V3's just how the laces feed through the sides and connect at the base of the outside of the foot. I cannot speak to how the laces were made in the V2's, but I know the HC just span the visible lace area and do not extend down in the same way as the V3's. The sidewall can contain a magnet/Nitinol system. Delrin is the DuPont branding for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene

I will get pictures of my housing hopefully tomorrow. Here is a picture of the insole, its relationship to the giron and the magnetic points of attachment. Imagine the same sidewall style housing shown in the Nike patent being connected to this insole. Inside the housing is Nitinol springs that hold the laces apart when loose, and bring them within range of the magnets' pull when hit with current. Opening up the inside of the upper lining should provide access to the laces, and you would have to cut them if you wanted to have them interlock with the insole. It is the the least invasive method for creating a lace system I can come up with. Sure would be sweet to figure a method that doesn't require cutting the laces, but I don't know how that would need to be done.

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Ok - here is what I am cooking. This image shows a sheet of delrin plus cut out sections to provide tracks for the magnets/straps. The calipers show the total thickness if an entire second half, including raised tracks, were to be added. I estimated whatever assembly could be embedded in the sidewall of the shoes must be .225 inches thick or less, so as to prevent any appearance of bulk. So, an assembly constructed of 4 sheets worth of thickness will total only .165", well below the .225" and should allow room for comfort padding.

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This picture is a bit more visual on attaching it to an insole, note the area where the tracks have ended is meant to be a fold-line to aid attachment. Having played with the idea more I am not too keen on the thermomorp encapsulating the magnets. It adds unnecessary thickness, and glue should suffice for maintaining the connection between magnets and the straps. The measurements are proportionate to the actual shoe, there is a perspective problem in the photo cause of the distance between them.

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I am undecided on how to best connect the individual straps/magnets as a sliding whole. A thin "bar" of delrin that was glued across all of the lace magnets could slide in the top half of the assembly in a much larger "track", so that pulling one lace loose would release all of the other laces, and instead of four Nitinol springs it probably only needs one or two. The forward most lace is very close to the attraction pull range of the magnets. If the Nitinol is stretched when the straps are pulled loose, then they will remain apart due to the wire tension. Alternatively, the shortest lace could use a metal connector in lieu of a magnet to dramatically lessen the attraction range of the base magnet. This Nitinol spring is .010" wire diameter, coiled for an overall width of .07". It will easily provide adequate clearance for the spring and the magnet within the housing.

This is the spring in its memory set shape. It is well within the attraction range of the magnets.

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This is the same spring stretched to span both magnets.

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This wire being so thin means very little amperage is required to cause its actuation.

Any thoughts or observations are appreciated!
 
This looks like it is going to be awesome

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I reworked the track plate a bit today and added the strip to four magnets. I gave far more clearance to the tracks to allow the magnet line to swing in an arc without binding. I think the Nitinol springs can be embedded in one of the raised tracks which will clean up how the Nitinol sits in the assembly. Had other things I had to attend to, so no more dramatic progress. I will post a picture or two when I get home.
 
We seem to be on the same page with this.

I am suggesting to lose the elastic altogether.

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What needs to be decided is what part/side moves? At this time, I think it is best to make the fixed point of attachment on the outside of the shoe and the moving parts go inside on the arch side.

Looking at this model I made, the outer part doesn't even need to be 2 parts.
 

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Ok. A slight re-think and a re-draw.

I've kept the image the same size for the captures and just moved the parts of the 3D model. I also included a tape measure so you see the range of movement this design has, but it looks like the tape didn't pick up on the OPEN image. Provided the laces are flexible like polyprop or similar, you should have plenty of room to get a foot in or out of the shoe. This system only needs 3 magnets points -
1. On the open end of each lace.
2. As a stop point when the laces are OPEN (about 95mm) so they don't come all the way out.
3. As a stop point when the laces are CLOSED (about 30mm).

So long as the laces slide easy, this would be a fast open/close system with no electronics and minimal moving parts.

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Have you guys tried just straight pulling off the soles? I have done that with about 3 pairs now, and it leaves a much nicer mid-sole. This particular pair, I left on top of one of those 500 watt construction lights on a grate. (Heat guns don't really penetrate well, they basically only heat the surface since they blow hot air. I found that a heat gun wanted to melt the sole before the actual glue itself got hot enough) Heating the entire sole, then picking at the corners until I find a weak spot that I can get my finger under. Then just peel it off...reheating the sole once it starts getting difficult again. If the mid-sole peels away with it, you aren't heating the glue enough for it to fail. I wouldn't worry too much about your mid-soles btw Nzfly get a carbide drum dremel bit and just smooth it back down. Once you put the soles on, they cover up most imperfections. (As long as you don't cast the back of the smooth) Here's a pic below showing the pair with the 500w light (halogen) they still probably wont come off perfectly, but any mistakes will be covered when you put the soles on.
 

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I only have a moment to upload these images, but I will chew on both of you guy's thoughts. Here is how I modified the assembly...

More clearance to swing.
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Here is with the Nitinol springs. I would probably split one of the tracks to further recess the spring, but there is a gap between the height of the magnet bar and the track.
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Here is an edge on view showing the slots where the laces would emerge.
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Quickly, what type of plastic would you use? The delrin is pretty stout and while it will bend, I would not say it is ideal for anything that needs to wiggle. It can be heated and bent into a fixed shape. However that is about the extent of it. I cannot convey just how low friction it is though. It really is fancy.

Wizard - I have another pair to go, so I will absolutely give this version a go!! I might have to name my next born "Wizard" if it saves me from the tedious nightmare.
 
I left on top of one of those 500 watt construction lights on a grate.

Is that a Halogen light? If so, that is what I decided was best for the heater on my vacuum former. As you found, the heat it generates seems to penetrate and not just burn the surface.

I only have a moment to upload these images, but I will chew on both of you guy's thoughts. Here is how I modified the assembly...

Absolutely. I like what you are doing, but I think the simpler you make this, the better it will work.
 
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