DL-44 FDM c96 & MGC replicas…

[chubsANDdoggers]

The rear-sight and slider were fun to draw, right?


-Carson

Ya for sure! I definitely want to bend ur ear at some point along this journey as I know u’ve done the whole c96 already. I’m simply trying to get the basic stuff that is “easier” to scale out of the way before tackling the more difficult stuff.

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

Progress..

 

[Pedro]

Looks great! I might be wrong, but I think that the angled side of the mag well begins a bit further toward the front. Basically if you draw a straight line upward from the front edge of the fillet in front of the trigger, that's where it angles inward. The triangle shape at the top (side view) where it meets the straight portion is a product of the fillet between the angled and flat upper. Of course the MGC is quite different from the real C96 around the trigger area especially, but I know you're starting with the MGC so....Anyway, I hope that makes sense...it looks amazing, keep going!!

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

Pedro ur talking about this part I believe right? Ya I’ve already moved it forward. But to be fair all these parts will probably move back and forth a zillion times before I’m done. A lot of trial and error is happening. It’s definitely a slow process..

 

[Pedro]

Yep, that's the one! I know what you mean about tweaks, fully expected. I just wanted to weigh in so I could feel like I'm part of this awesomeness.

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

Please do. Honestly I appreciate it. Here’s another small yet difficult step that I found perplexing. I’m sure someone who’s well seasoned in CAD would have a better work around but for me it’s again a lot of trial and error.. and then try one more time.

Getting these details around the trigger frame isn’t easy and this isn’t perfect but I think it definitely works (remember this is an MGC so the details are little different than a c96)..

 

[wgdesign]

Can I ask where you got/get the technical dimensions from?

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

Can I ask where you got/get the technical dimensions from?

Sure! I actually have an MGC that I took apart and then I also searched the web/YouTube/Pinterest high and low or anything else that might help along the way..

 

[wgdesign]

Sorry what's 'MGC' stand for? Unfortunately being in Australia there's no way for me to get my hands on even a replica Mauser so I want to 3D CAD it up myself.

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

MGC stands for Model Gun Corporation. They where a Japanese replica manufacturer who are now out of business sadly. The OT of SW used MGC’s for some of there dl-44 props.

I understand the drive to create your own. Good luck on your journey.

 

[Pedro]

The MGC C96 is basically the penultimate replica, all of the inner mechanisms are duplicated very closely. But it does have some issues, not 100% accurate by any means.

Regarding the shapes around the Mauser trigger, I found when working on mine (physically) and doing some CAD work on a Margolin that it's helpful to think about how it would actually be machined. Think about the block "of metal" you have, then you've cut the basic shapes but need to smooth it out. Think about the tool that would make a given fillet/bevel, then the tool path that it would take going around the edges of the piece. A little vague but maybe helpful.

In this case I think that they go around the edge of the trigger opening, starting at the front/bottom going straight up, then curving toward the rear and going around the circle until almost straight down again at the rear (angling slightly towards the back). Then the same tool would cut the little curve between the guard and grip, and it would take a little turn toward the front when it hits the trigger guard bevel, which creates that little rounded corner at the back of the trigger opening. Hopefully that makes sense, hard to describe what I mean. A loft with an appropriate profile would achieve this in 3d I think.

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

Pedro I honestly don’t know a whole lot about machining I’ll be honest but it’s funny because how you described machining is exactly how I approach these CAD designs. Everything you mentioned including the tool path.. Except it’s an extrusion cut but same concept I believe.

 

[Pedro]

To be clear, neither do I. I probably should have said “how I imagine it might be machined” lol! But that did indeed help me “discover” a few shapes lately (I’m just learning here too!). You know how sometimes you don’t really understand a shape until you see how/why it came to be? Like older pre-computer drawings and designs. I’m discovering that arcs and chamfers all sorts of things are made using calculated or reasoned decisions, not just the swipe of a pen. Know what I mean Verne?

Now, more pics!

 

[wgdesign]

To be clear, neither do I. I probably should have said “how I imagine it might be machined” lol! But that did indeed help me “discover” a few shapes lately (I’m just learning here too!). You know how sometimes you don’t really understand a shape until you see how/why it came to be? Like older pre-computer drawings and designs. I’m discovering that arcs and chamfers all sorts of things are made using calculated or reasoned decisions, not just the swipe of a pen. Know what I mean Verne?

Now, more pics!

As an Industrial Designer I can tell you that's absolutely not the case. Yes, they have to work with the tools and processes to be efficient, but most decisions are arbitrary. The interesting thing for me is seeing inside the mind / processes of the designer. For example, more often than not you can tell when reverse engineering something whether the designer worked in imperial or metric. If you're unsure of the exact location of a hole, more often than not it's relationship to another feature is a whole number. Etc..

 

[Pedro]

Point taken, I appreciate your comment. Just before reading that I was thinking that I’m probably demonstrating my lack of education on the topic.

I guess my point is that when it comes to figuring out things that have been physically made, using basically known methods, you can sometimes better understand the geometry of a specific shape by figuring out HOW it might have been made. The curve right behind the trigger opening on the C96, or weird cut in on the side of the Margolin by the front of the trigger are good examples of what I mean.

Still, probably sometimes what I think is some “criteria”driven decision is really just the result of a good eye!

 

[wgdesign]

I guess my point is that when it comes to figuring out things that have been physically made, using basically known methods, you can sometimes better understand the geometry of a specific shape by figuring out HOW it might have been made.

Absolutely! If you know how something was made, what machines, what technologies etc, it definitely helps you figure out what the shapes could be.

For example, for vintage machined items, tapered fillets are definitely not a thing unless they were hand finished.

That's the other consideration too - there IS quite a bit of hand finishing in the past were designers wanted a feature that machines of the time couldnt replicate.

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

..If you're unsure of the exact location of a hole, more often than not it's relationship to another feature is a whole number. Etc..

Yes this is something I rely on all the time to be honest. Otherwise your lost as a whole.

A got a little sidetracked with this MGC because of some amazing guidance that was shared with me towards these Mausers. In turn I started up on the barrel as well..

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

Just a progress pic..

 

[Pedro]

Looking very good man! Can you post side view to see what you came up with for the shape under the rear sight? I'm currently reworking this on a Denix, something often ignored.

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

You mean something like this? This is far from finished and it may not look like a lot was done but if I told you how many hours it took me to go from that previous post to this one..