More details on the Vader ROTJ saber - Please archive

[Darf Vader]

Now regarding the grips, what's the explanation of the areas that ARE chipped if they're not metal?

Another board member has suggested that they may be metal, dipped in rubber. That could explain why you can nick it without actually chipping the paint.

Also, aluminum is softer than you'd think.


BTW, looks like this horse ain't as dead as we thought. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaw!!

 

[obi1kenny]

Did I miss anything?

So, it is established that the grips are in FACT made out of cheese, good job guys!

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OK, well at least we know that this side of the saber has 1 charging pin still in place and the other side is filled with crap. Maybe both of these where filled at one point and someone cleaned it out. Or maybe this is an older pic and now for some reason it is filled with crap???

Compared to this side.

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EDIT: Ok here is the best pic I could find of the same side of the saber that the first pic is of, but this pic was taken at the same time as the second pic but opposite side...still with me? OK, It looks like it has the same crap in it as the other side that we can see real clear. So you make the call, which pic is newer and which is older. These lower pics are from Scott (WadoYado) and were takin in 2001, I think, maybe a little earlier. David do you have a date on these pics? I think the top pic is even older than these other two.

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Also, on the lower shell and color issue and glue, we do know that the grips were screwed down to the tube in ESB so who says that they used glue under that too and how much they used. Maybe no glue was used and they were just bolted to the shell, well I donÂ’t believe that but just thought I would offer it up as a possibility.

 

[Oohyeah KL]

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Darf Vader wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
Now regarding the grips, what's the explanation of the areas that ARE chipped if they're not metal?
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No idea, but what I do know is that this thread should NOT be on page 3!!!

BUMP!!!

 

[dcarty]

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The original purpose for posting this pic was for Dave Carty to see the flat-head screw. On a side note, it's another good shot for DS to look at.

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Many thanks!

Dave C

 

[DARTH SABER]

Its possible they disnt use glue on the grips but remember the only screws used were one in the center on the bottom and one small one on the side at the top...If there was only one small one at the top on the side then that would mean that if enough force was put into swinging the saber around the opposite side of the grip (with no screw) would most likely be pulled up out of place..

 

[lonepigeon]

I don't think the screws would've held the grips on their own either. They were likely just reinforcement after lessons learned from ANH.

I was the one that suggested grips dipped in rubber to Darf. The grip shape does match ANH more than ESB or ROTJ. I thought it may have been the distortion of the rounded ends throwing it off before, but with these clearer pics it easy to tell they don't match.
However the DO match the ANH grips and there's seven of them. I thought it could possibly be an ANH stunt originally, BUT there's the holes (which do match up with ESB placement- I double checked). I'm thinking they needed grips and scrapped a set from an ANH stunt (or Hero).
The thing that makes me think dipped in rubber is the new big closeup of the bottom that's been posted. There's a giant chip out of one grip and the black looks really thick. The material underneath also looks like sheet metal (like T-track). If you look closely at the ends they almost look filled in as if they were metal T-track. Dipping them in rubber might be enough to fill the gap.
No smoking gun, but it's a theory I can't find any problems with yet.

I don't know how thick rubber goes on in the dipping process, but could it possibly be enough to increase the width of the found metal T-track to the correct 1/2"?
Something to think about.

 

[fried mon calamari]

OK,

I thought I'd try and pull all the info on everything that's been laid out here so far...

1. The tab at the front of the door latch is cut off just short of the shroud and is attached with a #4-40 x 1/2" standard flathead screw.

2. There is a hole in the center of the door catch.

3. There is only 1 recharge pin on the saber and that is in the rear position on the side opposite the test lamp switch.

4. The bulb guts were removed with the middle section possibly being the only part used ( to hold the pins).

5. The recharge port button may or may not be a tire valve. Some found parts are very similar but not exact.

6. The control box has screw heads visible on top, but are covered over by tape, paint or both.

7. There is a screw or spring visible on at least the front cylinder of the control box (seen through the side slots and possibly also from the front)- Material unknown

8. There is a tube of some sort visible through the "recharge port" (behind the "tire valve") and through the test lamp switch.- Material unknown

9. The flash base may or may not be a Graf. Debate stands on the color of the tube, texture of the finish and whether or not an "L slot" is visible under the mid-band.

10. The base of the flash, where the Linhof assembly is, is one of the following:
a. a graflex bottom with an epoxy/ resin filling replacing the whole plate,
b. a graflex bottom with a washer or metal disc epoxied to it.
c. a standard graflex base with some resin filling in the copyright info and possibly filling in a dent,
d. a replacement base with either a metal disc epoxied on or filled with epoxy/ resin

11. Grips are either hard plastic or smaller metal T-Track that has been dipped in plastic.( or cheese

)- Material Unknown

12. The holes in the base by the grips line up with the spacing of the Luke ESB 6 grip pattern, but glue/ epoxy was most likely used as well for stability.

13. The profile of the grips match the ANH grips closer than the ESB grips. Possibly scabbed from an ANH stunt or Hero

13. This is still one REALLY ugly saber and it keeps getting uglier the longer we look at it. (Not that it's keeping me from making one

)




Did I miss anything?

 

[Brevin Din-Shay]

I don't have a lot of time right now, but there are a couple of things I want to hit on.

Over the last day or so, I've really had to to rethink my position on a few issues. It's always important to keep a very open mind when studying this saber.

For easier reference, I'll do this categorically:

GRIPS

Chris, I think you may have something with your "coated T-track" theory. (Obviously, this is something I've done further thinking on.)

I thought it worth mentioning, though, that I've worked with plastic coating before. If this is the same substance that the prop makers presumably used, I can't see how the chips would come out looking like they do.
If the stuff I used on my hand tools was the same thing, it would tear like rubber - not chip.
See this link: www.plastidip.com

However, there is also a material known as Plasti-Kote, and it's a lighter material that you spray on. I have never used it, so I can't give an opinion on it.
See this link: www.plastikote.com


THREADS VS. SPRINGS

I think Lonepigeon brought up another good point about the edges being the "tell" sign.

We need image enhancement for this pic:

Hopefully we will be able to see the sharpness of the edges and make a better call.

Those are the only things I have time for now, unfortunately. Keep this sucker goin', guys! We've already nailed some great new info.

 

[Johnleprekan]

What program are you using to enlarge those pics?

 

[lonepigeon]

Plasti-Kote is just a brand of paint. Do they have some sort of coating product?

Isn't the only actual "chip" that big one seen in the bottom cloeup? I think it looks odd for a chip, kinda like a tear.
All the rest of the marks look like dents in the finish, but still black.

Also worth noting is that the grips are all pretty nicely rounded. Something thats only been done on ANH grips before. ESB grips and even ROTJ Fett grips are straight cut. These saber grips look like they were rounded with a file perhaps to reduce sharp metal edges.
It's possible the coating didn't add much thickness to account for the size discrepancy- it was just an idea I thought I'd throw out. It could just be no one's found metal T-track the right width yet.

 

[Darf Vader]

Well, looks like this horse is really kicking!!

I'm convinced 99.99% that the grips are metal. There's no other explanation for the chips and scratches. They simply wouldn't be there if they were plastic.

Whether or not they're T-Track remains to be seen, but Chris's observation about the rounded edges makes sense.

Perhaps there were leftover strips from ANH, but they were rough so the propmakers rounded them out, but they don't match 100% to ANH since they weren't done by the same person?

 

[DARTH SABER]

You can see the teeth marks from the file on the rounded adges, but these can also be seen on rubber (which I did on my ANH Luke saber)....However I am now leaning towards metal also..

This still doesnt match up with the close up pics of the few stormtrooper rifles which had the grip material also, and you could see that the ones used on the trooper blasters were of flexible material.

Maybe they found some in metal and some in plastic..

 

[steveday72]

Here's an enhanced version of the pic you posted earlier Brevin...

With the sharpness of the upper and lower halves of each ring being so well defined, it appears that the profile is a "V".

I'm quite sure this is a commonly found "Stove Bolt". I had four in one of my parts drawers...

These ones are a common size and the heads are just under 1/2" (0.466" on my calipers).


Steve

 

[Oohyeah KL]

I was going to say the same thing - looks much more likely to be a screw to me.
First, the threading slopes down at a steeper angle than I would imagine a coil would;

But more importantly, a coil would not have a gap between each thread, would it? Whereas the threading of a screw would have such a large gap between threads.

Added to that what we see on the top - ie., signs of a screw slot.

To me this case is 95% closed.

 

[DARTH SABER]

Heres my hardware saber...I used the slot flat head screw with the "V" cut under the head and the threading exposed...Unfortnately I dont have a shot of the threading..
But I can asure you it looks like the pics previously posted.

 

[steveday72]

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Oohyeah KL wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
I was going to say the same thing - looks much more likely to be a screw to me.
First, the threading slopes down at a steeper angle than I would imagine a coil would;

But more importantly, a coil would not have a gap between each thread, would it? Whereas the threading of a screw would have such a large gap between threads.

Added to that what we see on the top - ie., signs of a screw slot.

To me this case is 95% closed.
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If there was a gap between segments of wire on a coil, then you'd see a black ferride core behind it, rather than metal like we see here.


...

Great Job DS. Now you just have to beat it with a hammer and leave it in a muddy pit for a month.

Steve

 

[DARTH SABER]

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steveday72 wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>

Great Job DS. Now you just have to beat it with a hammer and leave it in a muddy pit for a month.

Steve

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Actually that one is staying clean, the one Im making from a Graflex is the one Im beating the crap out of..

 

[steveday72]

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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
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steveday72 wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>

Great Job DS. Now you just have to beat it with a hammer and leave it in a muddy pit for a month.

Steve

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Actually that one is staying clean, the one Im making from a Graflex is the one Im beating the crap out of..
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I hope the clamp is worth using on something else. It seems kind of back to front with a pristine HW saber and a bashed up Graflex.

Those camera collector's would have a fit!

Steve

 

[lonepigeon]

1. What chips or scratches don't look like hard rubber or plastic? I think most could be explained in any material except that big chunk missing which says metal to me. Most don't reveal any undercolor just black.

2. What doesn't match about these grips compared to the ANH? I see no differences. The grips are pretty nice besides some wear. The edges were rounded rather carefully like ANH.

3. I do think the ANH Sterling grips are metal and see nothing to indicate a more flexible material. The thin sheet metal of T-track would bend just like it is seen in pics of the E-11's. The grips which are bowed out on the Sterlings would droop down if they were rubber, instead they just float above the receiver - rigid.

 

[Darf Vader]

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lonepigeon wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
1. What chips or scratches don't look like hard rubber or plastic? I think most could be explained in any material except that big chunk missing which says metal to me. Most don't reveal any undercolor just black.
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With some of the scratches you can see a bit of silver underneath. That's in addition to that big chunk that's missing.

This convinces me that it has to be metal, which was painted or coated black.

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2. What doesn't match about these grips compared to the ANH? I see no differences. The grips are pretty nice besides some wear. The edges were rounded rather carefully like ANH.
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Are there any pics you have that would be useful in comparing the ANH grips to the ROTJ grips? I'm just curious to see if they're EXACT matches.