Man of Steel (Pre-release)

[DuneMuadDib]

So being almost the last survivor of your planet is not enough to make that pain unique?? What more could you want?

Martian Manhunter has him beat, he's the last Green Martian alive. There's also Miss Martian, a White Martian.

Kryptonians they've got Superman, Supergirl, Zod and however many cronies are in the Phantom Zone, H'El, the population of the Bottle City of Kandor. One could also count the Daxamites (Mon-el's people) as their society was founded by Kryptonians and somehow grew to find lead more toxic to them than Kryptonite is to Superman.

Marvel's mutants have him beat on the fitting in with an alien culture thing (sorta). They're super powered beings who are outcasts in a world that hates and fears them. Not all of them have the luxury of looking like an ordinary human like Superman does.

Superman's got two sets of dead parents though, birth and adoptive. Pretty much every last superhero has at least one, many have two, Spider-man has 3 and change (counting Ben as adoptive and the change is for the numerous times May has died but not really died).

There are other "last of their kind" heroes besides Superman, so he's not unique there. Nearly every superhero has at least one dead parent, so he's not unique there. Plenty of superheroes have wrestled with having the power to kill and making the choice not to and the necessary restraint it requires to not kill, so he's not unique there. Now with his marriage to Lois Lane rebooted with the New 52 he's not even among the few who are happily married.

If you really, really want to you can argue that not one single superhero has anything unique about their emotional pain or however you want to phrase that. That's not my point and never was my point but if I'm going to be quoted out of context so be it. What I said was that Superman's a tough nut to crack since he's boring if he's an invulnerable boy scout as what I would expect is his characterization to a layman. If his powers are reduced to the point where he's actually in physical danger people complain or it just creeps back up anyway so it never goes anywhere. If they change his personality TOO MUCH to become relatable then the fans cry character assassination. DC has to walk a very fine line to make Superman interesting with the corner they've written themselves into with him.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

All he has to do is contact Batman and get him to work with Braniac 5.0 and the Kandorians will be free by lunch.

New Krypton story arc from a few years ago. Superman found the Bottle City on Brainiac's ship, they actually got it restored to full size on Earth near the Fortress of Solitude. After Earth didn't exactly welcome the new 100,000 Kryptonians with open arms they left in Kandor and used it to create New Krypton on the other side of the sun. New Krypton was later destroyed and Zod declared war on Earth.

 

[Jet Beetle]

Seeing how Superman came way before Martian Manhunter, Spider-Man, or any of Marvel's Mutants - his uniqueness has been plagiarized by others - but I still view him as being alone on this planet - especially now with the way other Kryptonians are written - Supergirl is entirely Alien and the Phantom Zone baddies don't really show up for an extended period of time and when they do it's not like Superman can relate with them any more than you could relate with a maniac murderer. And you can't really count the Daximites as Mon-El lives in the future and there aren't really any other Daxums running around in our time - well... except me.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

Daxamites do count though (I'm only marking them as partial credit), because Mon-El is from the present. Mon-El is only in the future because when he was playing Super-teens with Clark he got lead poisoning so they threw him in the Phantom Zone to keep him alive, then the Legion yanked him out and fixed him. A few years ago there was also a Daxamite Green Lantern, Sodam Yat. A few GL Corps arcs featured Daxam, including turning their sun yellow so they got the standard Kryptonian superpowers. I don't think they've shown up in New 52, but just about nothing in the Green Lantern books was changed with the reboot so I'm counting it.

I keep meaning to read Supergirl, the characterization of her being more alien sounds interesting to me. In the context of that though, the whole New 52 reboot, I'll grant that Superman is more alone on this planet than he's been in years. I'm pretty sure New Krypton didn't happen in the New 52 either, but then New 52 Superman is slightly less of a dick than Earth One Superman, and I didn't care for that portrayal.

Also for my money I'd say there's more emotional depth to be found in Batman than Superman. That or I'm just not reading the right Superman stories.

 

[Jet Beetle]

Daxamites do count though (I'm only marking them as partial credit), because Mon-El is from the present. Mon-El is only in the future because when he was playing Super-teens with Clark he got lead poisoning so they threw him in the Phantom Zone to keep him alive, then the Legion yanked him out and fixed him. A few years ago there was also a Daxamite Green Lantern, Sodam Yat. A few GL Corps arcs featured Daxam, including turning their sun yellow so they got the standard Kryptonian superpowers. I don't think they've shown up in New 52, but just about nothing in the Green Lantern books was changed with the reboot so I'm counting it.

I keep meaning to read Supergirl, the characterization of her being more alien sounds interesting to me. In the context of that though, the whole New 52 reboot, I'll grant that Superman is more alone on this planet than he's been in years. I'm pretty sure New Krypton didn't happen in the New 52 either, but then New 52 Superman is slightly less of a dick than Earth One Superman, and I didn't care for that portrayal.

Also for my money I'd say there's more emotional depth to be found in Batman than Superman. That or I'm just not reading the right Superman stories.

I'm not too familiar with the current state of the Daximites, my last brush with Mon-El was back when Superboy (Superman when he was a boy) put him in the Phantom Zone because of lead poisoning and Brainic 5 took him out in the future and cured him. I'm not sure I'd count any Daxums from the GL Core as they generally use the universe as they're playfield, not locking themselves to one planet as Superman does.

You mentioned nothing was changed in GL with the New 52 reboot - but isn't Green Lantern gay now? I haven't read the new ones.

Supergirl (the 52 one) doesn't even know English - she speaks almost solely Kryptonian and sees Kal-El's Clark Kent persona as shameful, feeling he should embrace his Kryptonian heritage and not "serve" humans. She is probably one of the only good things to come from the new 52 - I'm not a fan of the reboot.

The new 52 books are confusing when it comes to Superman - it's like they are cherry picking what happened and what didn't - Doomsday? New Krypton? Superman's marriage to Lois? I find myself struggling to know who this new Superman is - at times he reads familiar and others he reads more like Peter Parker in college.

I never, since I was a kid, liked Batman. And with the way he is now - he trails too dark for me. I always viewed Superman as the ultimate wish - wouldn't it be great if this guy really existed - as humans we wait for the special and gifted people in our society to show us what is possible and then a trail of copy cats follow - Superman, I always viewed as one of those people who if he was real, would be a light that showed the way. I didn't read him to take on a fiction character's problems - but always felt his greatest struggle was there was no off switch for who he is or what he does. It's not like he can stop being Superman. And with the moral compass taught to him by Ma and Pa Kent, even if he lost his powers and saw someone commiting a crime or saw a child in a burning building, he would rush in without thinking about his own safety. I always felt in the old issues that he knew a relationship between he and lois would never really work - which is why he never took it too far. It's like a girl you like who you're close with but asking her out is a risk because it could ruin the friendship and then you'd have nothing. He serves as a reminder to a time when in America anything and everything seemed possible. The ultimate immigrant story.

 

[DuneMuadDib]

I'm not too familiar with the current state of the Daximites, my last brush with Mon-El was back when Superboy (Superman when he was a boy) put him in the Phantom Zone because of lead poisoning and Brainic 5 took him out in the future and cured him. I'm not sure I'd count any Daxums from the GL Core as they generally use the universe as they're playfield, not locking themselves to one planet as Superman does.

Good point. Also why I really only give them partial credit at best.

You mentioned nothing was changed in GL with the New 52 reboot - but isn't Green Lantern gay now? I haven't read the new ones.

Different Green Lantern. Alan Scott, the original version of the character before it was all rebooted as a Lensmen rip-off in the '50s. Alan Scott was in the JSA, which prior to the Crisis on Infinite Earths was on Earth 2. Following Flashpoint the JSA no longer exists in the New Earth/Earth 0 continuity, and the rebooted Earth 2 features the JSA again where that reboot version of Alan Scott is gay. The main universe Green Lantern stuff is basically untouched (at least everything since Hal Jordan was resurrected.

Supergirl (the 52 one) doesn't even know English - she speaks almost solely Kryptonian and sees Kal-El's Clark Kent persona as shameful, feeling he should embrace his Kryptonian heritage and not "serve" humans. She is probably one of the only good things to come from the new 52 - I'm not a fan of the reboot.

Sold, gotta go buy some digital copies now.

The new 52 books are confusing when it comes to Superman - it's like they are cherry picking what happened and what didn't - Doomsday? New Krypton? Superman's marriage to Lois? I find myself struggling to know who this new Superman is - at times he reads familiar and others he reads more like Peter Parker in college.

This right here is at least part of why I gave up on Superman after the first issue, and Action Comics after about four. I assume that Doomsday didn't happen, or at in very broad strokes. New Krypton certainly didn't happen, nor did the marriage to Lois. I think they're back to the status quo of her not knowing his secret identity. It also harkens to my point that if they make him too like Peter Parker to be relatable it doesn't feel like Superman.

Excluding the compressing 15ish years of in-universe continuity into 5 years all but three titles I read are virtually unchanged from their pre-New 52 status. Anything with radical changes feel to me like change for the sake of change and just don't do it for me. I think for the most part I just pretend the reboot never happened in the vain hope it'll be undone after the Trinity War when Pandora opens her box again.

I never, since I was a kid, liked Batman. And with the way he is now - he trails too dark for me. I always viewed Superman as the ultimate wish - wouldn't it be great if this guy really existed - as humans we wait for the special and gifted people in our society to show us what is possible and then a trail of copy cats follow - Superman, I always viewed as one of those people who if he was real, would be a light that showed the way. I didn't read him to take on a fiction character's problems - but always felt his greatest struggle was there was no off switch for who he is or what he does. It's not like he can stop being Superman. And with the moral compass taught to him by Ma and Pa Kent, even if he lost his powers and saw someone commiting a crime or saw a child in a burning building, he would rush in without thinking about his own safety. I always felt in the old issues that he knew a relationship between he and lois would never really work - which is why he never took it too far. It's like a girl you like who you're close with but asking her out is a risk because it could ruin the friendship and then you'd have nothing. He serves as a reminder to a time when in America anything and everything seemed possible. The ultimate immigrant story.

That right there is unfortunately a much better way to describe Superman than the people paid to write him generally do. I want to see more than just "I'm going to punch this until I win" out of his books, and there's not nearly enough of that. It's a fine line to walk between making him human and relatable and still inherently Superman and swinging either too far towards boring invincible flying brick or my life sucks emo Peter Parker.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

.......................

 

[Jet Beetle]

Paul,
Man I wish YOU had written the new movie!

As you know I got close - r-e-a-l close. My agents were on the phone with Warner drawing up contracts -- but I suppose it just wasn't meant to be.

My kids would be looking forward to college in Japan - now we wait anxiously for my residual check from the Honeycombs commercial I directed last year. :behave

 

[seelsa73]

David Goyer said in an interview with Total Film magazine that, "Relatable and realistic doesn't necessarily mean dark. I think it would be inappropriate for us to approach a Superman film as if we were doing The Dark Knight. The Batman films are a lot more nihilistic; Superman has always been a story about hope."

David Goyer Says the Man of Steel Trailer is Just the 'Tip of the Iceberg' - ComingSoon.net

 

[Jet Beetle]

David Goyer said in an interview with Total Film magazine that, "Relatable and realistic doesn't necessarily mean dark. I think it would be inappropriate for us to approach a Superman film as if we were doing The Dark Knight. The Batman films are a lot more nihilistic; Superman has always been a story about hope."

David Goyer Says the Man of Steel Trailer is Just the 'Tip of the Iceberg' - ComingSoon.net

From what I've seen it doesn't look all that hopeful. Nolan can't change what he feels is a compelling story - sorta like Tim Burton, even Ed Wood (my favorite Burton film) radiates a Burton feel and that movie is far from his normal fairy tale theater. Nolan has never really made a bright movie and seeing how Superman seems somewhat tormented in these shots and even the drab color of his costume, it's invoking a darker feeling already.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

........................

 

[seelsa73]

from what i've seen it doesn't look all that hopeful. Nolan can't change what he feels is a compelling story - sorta like tim burton, even ed wood (my favorite burton film) radiates a burton feel and that movie is far from his normal fairy tale theater. Nolan has never really made a bright movie and seeing how superman seems somewhat tormented in these shots and even the drab color of his costume, it's invoking a darker feeling already.

This one is just another nolan batman film in a different suit.

Christopher Nolan is not directing this movie! He is the producer, the one who handles the money, that's it. It is a Superman film directed by Zach Snyder with a screenplay by David Goyer. Nolan has said time and again that he is largely hands off on this film. Why can't anybody seem to understand that. This is not a Nolan/Batman movie. And yes his suit looks dark in the photo's we have seen, but that's not necessarily an indication of the plot.

 

[YenChih Lin]

Which reminds me of this: Tim Burton's Secret Formula - YouTube

 

[Westies14]

Producers do not just handle money - especially a producer like Chris Nolan working on Superhero properties for Warner Brothers.

 

[RougeAvenger81]

I really like the suit and how long the cape is, however can someone explain to me why it's so shinny? Only complaint I suppose. Can't wait. Superman finally getting a film his character deserves.

 

[Jet Beetle]

Christopher Nolan is not directing this movie! He is the producer, the one who handles the money, that's it. It is a Superman film directed by Zach Snyder with a screenplay by David Goyer. Nolan has said time and again that he is largely hands off on this film. Why can't anybody seem to understand that. This is not a Nolan/Batman movie. And yes his suit looks dark in the photo's we have seen, but that's not necessarily an indication of the plot.

It's not just the suit - it's the tone of the entire trailer. "Should I have let them die? Maybe." -- Oh that is so very Pa Kent (sarcastic emocon where are you?). You think a producer just handles money? They okay the final script and have to give thumbs up for dailies. They are involved in casting, location, look, feel touch - and with all that - this is a NOLAN film. Just from the scenes in the trailer it's shaping up to fit right next to his boring Batman movies. Well maybe we can all hope Zack Snyder makes this as good as Watchmen -- oh wait, THAT sucked too.

Here's a pic I found - looks like they can't even keep the traditional Superman poses - he has to do the Iron Man thing.

2-29....2-29... set set -- hut hut hut

 

[ponchopanda]

Martian Manhunter has him beat, he's the last Green Martian alive. There's also Miss Martian, a White Martian.

Kryptonians they've got Superman, Supergirl, Zod and however many cronies are in the Phantom Zone, H'El, the population of the Bottle City of Kandor. One could also count the Daxamites (Mon-el's people) as their society was founded by Kryptonians and somehow grew to find lead more toxic to them than Kryptonite is to Superman.

Marvel's mutants have him beat on the fitting in with an alien culture thing (sorta). They're super powered beings who are outcasts in a world that hates and fears them. Not all of them have the luxury of looking like an ordinary human like Superman does.

Superman's got two sets of dead parents though, birth and adoptive. Pretty much every last superhero has at least one, many have two, Spider-man has 3 and change (counting Ben as adoptive and the change is for the numerous times May has died but not really died).

There are other "last of their kind" heroes besides Superman, so he's not unique there. Nearly every superhero has at least one dead parent, so he's not unique there. Plenty of superheroes have wrestled with having the power to kill and making the choice not to and the necessary restraint it requires to not kill, so he's not unique there. Now with his marriage to Lois Lane rebooted with the New 52 he's not even among the few who are happily married.

If you really, really want to you can argue that not one single superhero has anything unique about their emotional pain or however you want to phrase that. That's not my point and never was my point but if I'm going to be quoted out of context so be it. What I said was that Superman's a tough nut to crack since he's boring if he's an invulnerable boy scout as what I would expect is his characterization to a layman. If his powers are reduced to the point where he's actually in physical danger people complain or it just creeps back up anyway so it never goes anywhere. If they change his personality TOO MUCH to become relatable then the fans cry character assassination. DC has to walk a very fine line to make Superman interesting with the corner they've written themselves into with him.

Last known survivor of an alien planet, please,I think we all know who wins this...

 

[rodneyfaile]

Last known survivor of an alien planet, please,I think we all know who wins this...

What about The Master?

 

[crabra comander]

IWell maybe we can all hope Zack Snyder makes this as good as Watchmen -- oh wait, THAT sucked too.

Here's a pic I found - looks like they can't even keep the traditional Superman poses - he has to do the Iron Man thing.

I like Watchmen...I...I watched the three hour Director's Cut....thrice.:cry

The only way I will think it's Nolan doing this is if Superman is trained by :ninja's, upgrades his suit every sequel, and has this really forced Clark Kent voice:sick

 

[Shade88]

What about The Master?

The Master was sent back to Gallifrey with Rassilon and the rest of the Timelords.

I would add to the arguement in favor of the Doctor that he actually was the one who caused the destruction of his people, Superman was just there for his people's destruction, so I think that the Doctor has more tragedy in his storyline.